NEAT! Someone who thinks!

by Andy77e - 5/29/07 8:31 PM

In Reply to: hmm interesting point by Lightheart24

As of now, I'm ignoring the other guy because you seem sensible. He's more like a broken record that never gets to the part where it plays a tune.

My point about milk, wasn't really that "it's expensive". It's that we really don't know how much we are actually paying for it. When you subsidize food, the government is taking money from your pocket, and my pocket, and giving it freely, to a farmer (Ted Turner for example) who then sells us milk, a little cheaper. So we talk about how great it is that Milk is $3.29, but in reality, some money was taken from your income check to reduce that cost *AND* likely more money was taken, than how much the price was reduced. Remember, everyone get's a cut when the money changes hands. Government takes a little, Ted Tuner takes a little, then whats left offsets the cost of the Milk.

Lets see if I can illistrate this. If you pay give me $100, I'll sell you Milk for $1.50 a gallon up to 40 gallons of it. Of course you could just buy 40 gallons of milk at $3.29 and save money. Well that is exactly what Government does to us with subsidies. It takes millions from all of us in taxes, then says how great it's subsidies are for keeping the price of milk down to $3.29. It's a scam.

This is why we do not want Government in our gasoline, or phone, or electrical power, or food, or anything. They will simply scam us to make themselves look better and in the end make things worse.

As far as the war and such, I have heard that we are losing our civil liberties. That does concern me. But for as much as people have yelled and screamed and protested, I have yet to hear what actual civil liberties we've lost. I guess, I'd like a little more detail about what liberties we've actually lost.

The upgrade to security at Airports was needed. I don't like it, but it was nessary.

Actually, it was all three from the start, and I never thought otherwise. The information we had, and have, indicates Saddam was supporting the terrorist groups that attacked us all through the 90s to 911. So Terrorist was a reason. We know, without question, Saddam had WMDs and he had used them, and we had no reason to believe he wouldn't use them in the future. Further there is still credible evidence that he was trying to get nuclear weapons. So WMDs was a reason. Freedom from this horrible dictator was always something I believed in, even back when Clinton was supporting Saddams removal, and I thought Clinton was a horrid president, but he was right about getting rid of Saddam and freeing the Iraqi people. So it was, and is, all three.

Now we have accomplished all three, so why are we still there? Because just like how France supported the US when why fought for independence so many years ago, if we do not support them until they can stand on their own, they will fall. Iran and Syria and Terrorist networks, all have invested interest in getting control over Iraq. Iraq is the most advanced and wealthy middle east nation. If they end up a puppet of Iran, the danger to us and the rest of the world will be beyond calculation. Imagine Iran's crazy dictator, giving nuclear waste to make dirty bombs in Iraq, and being exported by networked terrorist using Iraqs vast technology and resources to export world wide. And thats just the long term outlook, in the short term, us pulling out before Iraq is able to stand on it's own will result in a massive civil war and ethnic cleansing. Whether you believe it or not, millions of Iraqis love us for freeing them, but if we pull out now, their joy will turn to a seething hatred for leaving them in a civil war. They could end up a worse enemy than before if we ditch them here.

It would be like me freeing you from slavery, only to ditch on in the road, and have you found by your masters who then beat the crap out of you for escaping. Are you going to be on my side after that? Hell no. We must stand with the free people of Iraq until they can defend themselves. And this we will do. I know you don't like innocent women and children dieing, I don't either. But I can promise you millions more will die if we pull out.

Ah... I kinda get what your saying. But I'm not sure if it's totally factual. Crude oil prices are hitting everyone hard. Even Iraq for example. Iraqis pay roughly $0.12 for a gallon. That's twelve pennies. But this is because the government subsidizes gas prices with tax money. They spend roughly 7 billion dollars a year to subsidize gas prices currently. Where do you think that money comes from? India does the same. Ironically both governments are trying to cut subsidies because they can't afford them.

So why are we trying to do exactly what they are finding out they can't? Further, we import more than half of our crude oil. We produce about 8 thousand barrols of crude, and use 20 thousand. 12 thousand barrols of imported oil makes us very suspectible to internation prices, which we are. Even if there's no shortage, if a barrol of crude goes for $75, do you think the independant crude seller local is going to sell crude for much less? Nope. Who are independant crude suppliers? Not Exxon or Shell, they are just suppliers that own wells. There's a guy that owns a bunch of wells in north Ohio for example. He just sells them like anyone would sell a product they made. You think he's selling for much less than the internation price? Nope.

So what is the answer? We want to be free from imported Oil, and we want to avoid paying high gasoline prices. Well, the best way to do that is get the oil here. Right now, our only real source of oil is the Gulf of Mexico. Why? Because the government will not let us get the oil elsewhere. We haven't even explored all of our land for oil. The oil companies figured out that if we know there's Oil in ANWR and the feds won't let them get that, nor some other spots they know, why bother looking? And they aren't. Some companies even reported there are some places they would like to look, but they can't even look for oil, let alone drill and get it. Currently Oil companies are only investing in maximizing the wells they already own.

We do not even know what resources we have in our own land, and we are preventing ourselves from getting the resources we know are there. Government has put us into this situation. They created the problem by preventing us from getting our oil, and now people are demanding they have more control, more power to effect the market, in order to fix the problem they created.

So what about the Big Three, and why don't they make a high mileage cars? Well I'm not convinced they don't. Focus, Aveo, Neon, ION are just the American cars. All of them build cars internationally that are smaller and get better mileage. The problem is labor here in the US is too expensive to make small cars profitable. Aveo for example is imported from cheap Korea labor. Also, the regulation in many countries are few less strict than here. (yeah some are worse), but in many cases, what is allowed to sell abroad, would never make it past government red type here.

Beyond this, people have strange ideas about how much mileage they should get, verses what kind of car they drive. The existance of technology doesn't mean it's practical or affordable. Further, there are laws of physics that simply make getting super high mileage on average size cars, impossible.

There are only two things we can do to help car makers produce these types of cars. First, remove as much red type as possible. Get government out of the car market. Red type adds to cost, both in designing, and producing. Remove as many regulations as you can. If someone makes a bad car, let the people choose not to buy it. Lets stop acting like we're 3 and we need our parents to put plastic covers over the power sockets. Next, reduce the tax burden on the manufacture and the workers. Workers could be payed less, making the product profitable at a lower cost, if they had to pay less tax. If you cut taxes to 10%, an auto worker could be paid five thousand dollars less a year, and still take home more pay than they do currently. Meanwhile, we'd have domestic cars that would be much cheaper and more competitive with imports.

Beyond that, it's up to the company to deal with the unions in order to survive.