Car Tech forum: Is the Chevy Volt over-hyped?

I would agree that it is over-hyped to a degree...

I think it's a great concept car, and I really wish they would hurry up on getting it into production. I like how it's gas engine doesn't run the wheels at all, it only contributes to recharging.

But on the other hand, it's getting alot more hype than it deserves. GM to me seems notorious for acting way more environmental than they actually are. For example, the gas mileage on most chevy vehicles is pretty rotten, and yet they have a whole web page dedicated to how great their gas mileage is. What they list is the old EPA highway estimates for their vehicles. That's about as overblown as legally possible.)
Anyway, as far as the volt goes, like I said, it's a great concept, but somehow I doubt GM is going to be speedy about getting this, and other practical environmentally friendly cars onto the road anytime before they absolutely have to. Toyota on the other hand is currently testing out its plug in prius (they gave one to UC Berkeley and one to UC Irvine to test out) and it apparently get's a 122 miles per gallon.

The term "hype" means inordinate attention or praise for the commonplace. The VOLT, which will become the first mass produced electrically powered vehicle that is a viable alternative to the gasoline engine, at a time when such a revolution is deemed critical for the future of the planet would seem to have a very difficult time being overhyped. Overhyped cars do not possess the revolutionary potential of this vehicle, nor generate millions of hits on General Motor's website for a car that's 3 years in the future.

Toyota supports the UC Berkely program !
Talk about conflict of interest !

Screw Toyota. GM as more vehicles with MPG over 30. WHICH MEANS Toyotas pollute more. Plus they are better quality and you could support your own country.

My Honda Civic does a steady 63miles to the gallon if I stick to 75 mph....i can't work out how your fuel economy is so poor!!!

I second everything you just said.
People that say "be patriotic and buy American" does not know what they are talking about it. More American cars are made out of the country then some of the foreign makes. When I see those commercials from the big 3 about "buy American", all I hear is "we still make crappy unreliable cars but if you dont buy us, you are less patriotic." Screw them...I pay my taxes and follow the laws.
They are the one making crap and trying to sell it to the American people.

Note: Everyone would buy American if they were built to last and have great design...but they dont. Change...if you want us to buy.

it saddens me what the public believes and perceives. the plug-in Prius is a project done by this comapany

http://www.energycs.com/recentprojects.htm

toyota has nothing to do with its development.

Absolutely not over hyped. It's is way passed the time an alternative to gas only vehicles came due. If GM is the first with such, so-be-it. Give it all the hype you can muster and hopefully it will inspire them to speed up production.

Actually, gasless vehicles have been available for years in other countries but not available here.

Come on vehicle manufacturers, get outta bed with the oil companies and work for the people. The oil companies wont go broke.

To me hype is mostly company-driven. GM has tried to lower expectations, which is more like anti-hype.

So why all the rabid interest? Maybe my story will shed some light. I was not a fan of the EV-1 or the original Prius. I am not particularly enamored of the Volt's styling or of GM in general and I have too many kids to buy one. Yet I'm very excited! Oil imports are the USA's #1 problem and have been for 35 years. PHEVs alone can solve this problem in the near-mid term. The technology is available and the economics work. $80 billion a year for PHEVs ($5000 per car x 16 million cars/year) would save $300 billion per year in foreign oil purchases PLUS $100+ billion per year in military spending. It's an absolute no brainer.

I'd be equally excited if Toyota announced a plug-in hybrid. Actually more so considering their superior track record. It's nice they'll convert a few Priuses for testing (years AFTER hobbyists did it). But a dozen test cars change nothing. Heck, Daimler tested PHEV Sprinter Vans years ago. Toyota clearly states the modified Prius is not suitable for production. And because of their lithium-cobalt-oxide (LiCoO2) blunder it may be five years before Toyota has a decent PHEV to sell.

It's not really correct to say the Volt's batteries "haven't been invented yet". Both A123Systems and LG sell batteries. These cells meet GM's specs for energy and power density, safety and cycle life. Scaling these cells up to automotive size requires some engineering, but no "invention". Of course GM wants to street-test full-sized packs before making any guarantees. But it's pretty clear the new battery chemistries are up to the job.

The story for LiCoO2 is quite different. Today's cells fall well short of the power density and cycle life specs. Worse, the weak cobalt-oxygen bond is a huge safety problem. It's bad enough to have a small laptop battery go into flaming blowtorch mode; a full-sized PHEV battery would be 100x worse. Significant invention is required for LiCoO2, and success is very much in doubt. It's baffling why Toyota chose LiCoO2 -- it seems their keiretsu approach may have blinded them to the alternatives. Their dominant position in conventional hybrids still gives them a huge manufacturing advantage, but their stumble has opened the door for GM (or someone else) to leapfrog them.

GM does not yet have its act together. They spent over $1 billion on the Hy-Wire car then backed down, gutless, and immune to the true needs of the market, even in light of California's new Hydrogen Highway. The GM Hy-Wire was a beautiful concept that should be on the market now! Here's a picture of it:
http://www.automotive.com/future-cars/90/112-0304-gm-hywire/index.html

Even if the membrane of GM's fuel cell only lasts 20,000 hours, who cares? Design it for easy relacement! Its obvious that GM management is a combination of lawyers and weak-spined backsliders. Whereas, Toyota and Honda, who will clean GM's clock are run by brave electrical technolgists who understand true market needs.

The real market needs are rapidly shifting: from dirty offshore, killing fields oil, to clean home-grown fuels that provide zero net CO2 footprints. GM Management would be best to clean the oil off its face and move agressively towards that new reality.

Move quickly from the ugly hybrids to the new all electrics (which obviously Honda and Toyota are bringing out), with proven technology, that exists now.

I pity the loyal GM employees and GM stockholders, who must suffer the technical ineptitude, the oil mongering attitude, and the meager marketing backwardness of the current GM leadership.

Put me in charge of GM and I will have it strategically straight in 3 to 5 months, AND I will bring out the new fuel cell, advanced technology vehicle that America wants now.

Randomotion@comcast.net

The States have the answers we need. California is leading the way.

The plan for a California hydrogen highway is in motion and you will find who, and when at their website:
http://www.hydrogenhighway.ca.gov/

The main problem, from a technology point of view is this.... How do you get hydrogen from renewables and not use a depreciating fuel such as natural gas? This highway will hopefully find these answers, and California will have created yet another industry for their state.

There was an interesting article in the May 2007 Popular Mechanics magazine about P-HEVs. http://www.popularmechanics.com/automotive/new_cars/4215489.html?series=19
I read in the newspaper this last week that Toyota has pushed back their release of their P-HEV a year or two.

While I know this is off the subject, the only reason why we are talking about electric cars to begin with is because the price of gas is going up. The price of gas is going up because the oil distribution system is max'ed out from increasing consumption. If we begin using more electric cars, the already nearly max'ed out power grid will not be able to keep up (because of increased consumption). Hydrogen is not going to happen for the masses, the infrastructure would be too great. Our natural gas distribution network is maxed out. Our only reasonable is a change in life style and reduce consumption. America can be at a turning point here if it decides to be at that point. We are spending about one billion dollars every week or two on the war in Iraq. Support the war or not, it's about control of oil. Like it or not, if the oil gets cut off (or reduced) from the middle east, we are going to have TREMONDOUS economic problems here. Can you say $6 or $8 a gallon for gas? Forget about your 401K. If we could spend half of the money that is going to the war on energy development here at home, both renewable and what we have, we would be better off. Our nation NEEDS a strategic energy plan that phases out our dependence on foreign energy. This may mean increasing nuclear and clean coal power, making oil from coal and coal sands, better more efficient ethanol technology, increasing hydro and maybe forced rationing of gas (and maybe electricity) to change our drive everywhere life styles.

You should have grave reservations about the label "environmentally friendly" related to any motor vehicle existing or proposed. There are no "environmentally friendly" batteries, and the supporting electronics are full of poisons. Regarding electric motors which are full of stuff we don't talk about yet:

"Dry ice blasting (CO2) for electric motor repair shops is preferred due to strict California environmental regulations concerning industrial hazardous waste disposal."

Oh, good. Twenty years of rapidly expanding electric motor cleaning with CO2...

And GE Plastics:

"BRUSSELS, Aug 3 (Reuters) - Chemical company Saudi Basic Industries Corp. (2010.SE: Quote, Profile, Research) (Sabic) won permission from the European Commission on Friday to buy GE Plastics from General Electric Co....
"...As a top-ranked maker of petrochemicals, SABIC will be in a position to lower the raw-materials costs of the plastics business."

If you think you had problems getting straight answers about plastics from American manufacturers, just try to get the truth from a company located in oil-rich Saudi Arabia.

We Americans have already poisoned our own landfills and a portion of rural China. Are we really so deluded that we think poisoning the land and water is a good trade-off to reduce poisoning the air? The "environmentally friendly" technology we want to believe in is as real as Santa Claus.

It appears that the only "environmentally friendly" means of transportation that will be available to us within the next 20 years will be those things at the bottom of our legs and god forbid we abandon our automobile most days of the week to use our feet.

Build it as presented and I'll buy it!

Hype, heck that's the American way. But the real news in electric cars continues to be the all-electric, 200+ mile range Tesla from Tesla Motors excrutiating details available at http://www.teslamotors.com . The Tesla Roadster's battery pack represents the biggest innovation in the Tesla Roadster and is one of the largest and most advanced battery packs in the world. Tesla (of California) combined basic proven lithium ion battery technology with its own unique battery pack design to provide multiple layers of safety. It's light, durable, recyclable, and it is capable of delivering enough power to accelerate the Tesla Roadster from zero to 60 mph in approximately four seconds. Meanwhile, the battery stores enough energy for the vehicle to travel more than 200 miles without recharging, something no other production electric vehicle in history can claim. A full charge takes 4 hours; a half charge 2 hours.

So while it's great that GM is seeking to produce an all-electric car and Toyota a plug-in hybrid, it's a shame nobody's paying attention to the Tesla. At its $98,000 price it's obviously too expensive for the average household. But new technology always comes with a huge initial price tag (how many readers can remember that the first handheld calculators cost $1,000+ -- now you can get then for $3). Meanwhile, those among us who insist on purchasing and driving gas guzzlers are simply unpatriotic. It really doesn't matter which car company manufacturers the car you buy -- they're all composed of parts from throughout the world. We've been thrilled with our 2001 Honda Insight Hybrid (30 to 50 mpg city, 60 to 70+ highway; 45.3 mpg for the life of the car) and our 2007 Honda Fit Sport (30.1 mpg for the life of the var, 39 mpg highway). If you think about it, there are very few people who need a gas guzzler except for selfish, self-centered reasons. And it's this selfishness that continues to undermine this great nation.