Car Tech forum: What's your favorite alternative fuel?

I have a great idea to promote the battery improvement, performance and just the idea of electric cars: a no-holds barred 500 lap race with a large reward for the top three.

Electric cars can go just as fast as gas, but the batteries need work. However, lithium polymer and eventually, nano-capacitors will improve to the point of being affordable and effective.

No one would be even talking about alternative fuels if the wacko environmentalists have not had their way with the help of the liberals. We have had a 25 year moratorium on drilling for oil in this country and our production has been cut in half, yet we need twice as much, thusly was have to depend on foreign oil. Even though there is enough oil here in the United States to keep us from using any foreign oil for the next 60 years and if the shale oil project near the Rocky Mountains comes to pass, we would have enough oil for the next 100 years. Oil has been found in abundance in North and South Dakota, and the governors of both states are want to let the oil companies drill since this may be one of the largest oil finds on earth. No, we need to let the oil companies do what they do best, find and drill for oil and then let them build new refinery's to make gas, then maybe we can have 38 cent per gallon gas as they do in Saudi Arabia and Kuwait and then we can talk alternative fuels for our homes and factories. But if you need to talk alternatives fuels for automobiles then there is a system of converting H20 to HHO which feeds the hydrogen gas as needed to a normal gasoline car, or as it would be called a Hybrid. Only one quart of this would last for over 4 months and would let a normal gasoline car get up to 90 miles per gallon. Eventually we can go completely to this HH0 fuel, but as a hybrid his has much more power, since there is nothing that can take the place of gasoline for power in the molecular level. How's that for a alternative fuel?

The biggest problem with ethanol isn't its corrosiveness, its high surface tension, nor the different air-fuel ratio that it requires for efficent combustion, it's that many people see ethanol as a solution when it most it is a stepping stone to the proper biofuel for gas engines: butanol.

No other fuel could have a greater or more immediate impact on our dependence on foreign oil than cellulosic butanol because all current cars and trucks can use it.

That would be nuclear, 4 on North Korea, 3 on Iran, 1 tactical on Syria, 1 on east Pakistan just so they get the idea and maybe one on Egypt just for lying to us.

Pretty soon ...15cent gas.

Could this be considered offensive.. hmm ,, not by many me thinks..

Alternately, a Realistic Approach, must use EXISTING VEHICLES or it is a pipe dream.. so a conversion is in order..

in comes Ethanol.. Gee so many against it.. seems like [[pro'bition]],,,
First, it is easy and cheap to make, non toxic and volitility is not that bad...
Second, degradation of any motor parts is managable
Third , when proper tuning / engine management systems are in operation
there is no shortage of power and/or milage is good... just leave it in the hands of CHAMP cars for a couple of years for developement
Forth, most vehicles can make the transition for a reasonable $$$$
....
And sorry.. but Reasonable has to factor in... AntiMatter Generators etc, are not presently an option people...

I get sick and tired about everytime the stupid democrats or republicans and anyone else talks about hydrogen as an alternative fuel, they relate to the the fuel cell...

This concept is just an electric car...

Every automobile (gasoline and diesel) today can be convert to burn hydrogen right now and several individuals have done it... and it is much safer than fossil based I.C.E. (Internal Combustion Engines)...

I prefer to drive a hydrogen ICE vehicle than

THE ONLY PROBLEM WITH HYDROGEN IS AND GET THIS IS WE DON'T HAVE AN INFRASTRUCTURE!!!! THIS IS WHAT WE NEED FIRST...

We need to stop talking about the alternative fuel vehicles and start creating the INFRASTRUCTURE FIRST!!!

Please help me in encouraging the spread of starting the hydrogen infrastructure...

Hydrogen is just a temporary storage method for energy taken from other types of fuel. Energy is needed to make hydrogen out of water, and when the energy is used it is returned to water (and not to destroy the ozonelayer as someone here thought).

If the invention by the CSC college inventors club pans out, the need for infrastructure will not be necessary, at least for automobiles as we know them.

Also, the inefficiency of regular ICE's using hydrogen can be overcome. Ford has 2 H2ICE's - a V10, and a 2.3L Engine. Both have been adapted for the use with hydrogen. Check out these websites:

http://cscinventorsclub.blogspot.com

http://www.ford.com/en/innovation/technology/hydrogenTransport/hydrogenInternalCombustion.htm

http://media.ford.com/newsroom/release_display.cfm?release=26062ted??

These are well worth your while!

The article is correct that electrolysis of water is probably the best of several hydrogen-producing processes to use, but it, as has many here, presumed that it would be fueled by commercial AC power, thus requiring the increase consumption of fossil fuels or other non-renewable resources in its manufacture.

However, DC can be produced directly as a result of many other non-polluting processes, such as magnetohydrodynamics (MHD), thermoelectric generators (thermopiles), and, of course, solar cells, which can take advantage of, respectively, hot gas streams produced from other industrial processes, geothermal or other natural heat sources, and, of course, sunlight.

The advantage of using commercially-produced DC to produce H2 rather than just charging electric cars is that it is easier and more efficient to distribute H2 than DC power, long distances.

As to leakage problems, that is something materials engineers will have to tackle. After all, Wankel engines were only a theoretical concept until engineers developed improved seals, and electric/hybrid cars were made practical when new battery materials were developed.

I was under the impression that it was just the opposite, that you have AC generated, sent along high tension lines, where it is stepped down to 440VAC down the street and then to 220VAC at the pole outside your house. Then it is brough into your main circuit box as 120VAC or in the case of necessity it remains at 240VAC.

The problem with the current technology is that even with off-peak production of electric, if it isn't being used, it dissipates in the form of heat. ALso, would it not be a better plan if hypercapacitors/batteries were employed to store energy locally? Even with converting that stored (DC) power and aving to convert to AC, it would only draw power from the grid when the batteries needed charging, and with the highly efficient photovoltaics on the market and some are boasting better than 85% efficiency even on overcast days, you would probably be able to sell power back to the grid.

Wankel was a good idea but poor design. It is leaky, wastes fuel, and does not provide a good alternative to a piston engine.

I still see electric drive the best choice. A high torque/horsepwoer AC motor will provide better economy and performance than any internal combustion engine.

Atomic energy is not necessarily the best way to provide electric to the grid either. As I wrote in another post, unless the reactors are designed better, and what is now called spent fuel can be recycled, The problems associated with dealing with all that atomic waste far exceeeds the benefits.

I guess I'll keep saying it, until everyone gets it: The technology is not the issue, it's simply a matter of money. Yeah, I saw "Who Killed The Electric Car" and "An Inconvveient Truth" and while the latter had many holes in the fabric, The EV1 was killed by the H2 lobby in California.

Here is a thought: What if I invented a device that generates electric without burning fuels, without using chemicals, without dependence on the sun or wind. WHat is I could place a small device in your MotoRAZR and you would never have to charge your cellphone again, ever? What if I could make one large enough to power your home with this same technology? How long before my shop gets burned down, or I am told by DoD that I cannot put this on the market because of National Security issues?

Well? Anyone have answers? Nah, I didn't think so. It will take a revolution to make it happen. What if we all just did not buy fuel on May 15? There are emails going around suggesting this. What impact do you suspect that will have on the oil/gas reserves? One way to find out is to participate in the process.

Fred Mars
Corvallis, OR

The only way to affect the oil reserves, is to NOT DRIVE anywhere, One Day An Month. Not buying on any certain day only means we put more in when we do buy. Think about it!!

I can't believe this isn't even an option in this thread? I've talked with an auto industry insider and he says there was a study done in 'overall environmental impact' from car models and the Toyota Prius ranked dead last! Why? Because the battery cells will need to be replaced, and they are highly toxic, among other things. (The highest rated car in the survey was the Yaris, also a Toyota model).

While bio-diesel is a great stopgap fuel alternative, it still isn't as clean as nothing. As in hydrogen. CNG, ethanol, and electric I think are simply harder to have universal access to. I can't wait for hydrogen fuel cell cars (& trucks/ess-you-vees) to make it to the market. There have already been some successful prototypes, it's basically range and cost of manufacturing that is holding them back (from what I understand).

A newer alternative is Lithium-Ion, like the Chevy Volt or the swank new Tesla. But again, it is the battery thing. However, the Tesla is pretty sexy for alternative fuel (really, really sexy).

I remember reading a couple years ago that GM was not going to get into the hybrid market and was working diligently on h2 cars (that's changed now)... That, (again) hybrids aren't a perfect solution, they are a stopgap. BMW purportedly has an h2 prototype car, but won't release anything in the near future. Several other mfr's are well along as well.

What I think may be truly exciting is to see if a new car manufacturer arrives with h2 fuel. Not a new badge from a current mfr, but a whole new company. It could be an opportune time to introduce themselves as a customer is looking for something new. Somebody that wants to join the fray, like a new Sparrow model, or a DeLorean... (Is Sir Richard Branson a reader of CNet forums?).

I realize the implications: a dealer network, parts network, mfr'g facilities, etc (read HUNDREDS of millions of USD at the barest minimum)... But it would be a great time and I think people would be more receptive to NEW than they would be if one were to try to compete against the current market leaders (read: Brilliance selling in US and Europe), with a similar product (read: combustion engine).

Well, others may disagree, but that's my take. My .05 cents FWIW. (haven't you heard .02 has gone up with inflation?). Cheers.

So, you may not believe my source for the "overall environmental impact" study. But this takes into account manufacturing, use, and overall lifecycle. I never said Prius batteries HAVE NEEDED to be replaced. I said they WILL NEED to be. Apparently that waste (even with the nickel recycling you mention) puts it in a poor overall position.

While you state H2 is obsolete, and in another post that steam is obselete... Okay, fair enough.

I appreciate your opinions on electric, but I sincerely doubt that "Electrical production and distribution systems are in place" to meet the overwhelming demand that EV's would have. Maybe about 20 more Hoover Dams in the USA would help. (uh, I say that somewhat sarcastically, please don't take offense. I've already noted my skepticism to the current electrical stations being able to cope).

Thanks for taking the time to respond. I think the more conversation to be had, the better. Better solutions are clearly needed. And consumer awareness is a great step in the right direction. Cheers.

Most plug in vehicles will be plugged into the power grid at night when their is actually a surplus of power and actually help to balance the daily power load and make use of the surplus generation capacity at night. Some electrical utilities offer lower prices during off peak times so a win-win

It takes 8 years to generate enough power from a solar panel to recoup the electricity put into its manufacture. Then, it's free power for the remaining life of the panel.