Car Tech forum: What's your favorite alternative fuel?

What your are talking about is only replacement sources.
Biodiesel, hydrogen and all the choices still require energy to process and leave waste in the environment. Everything you mentioned is not a reduction in polution, it just changes the type of pollution. How do you think these reactions are powered? They all require energy to process them and create waste along the way.

Remember how unleaded gas was supposed to save us? The real effect was the lead was replaced with benzine carcinogens. But they just were not measured and engine performance dropped, so that you had to burn more gas to do equal work and again increase pollution levels, but you couldn't see it. It wasn't smog, it was more dangerous.

I think we are all fooled when we look at only one aspect and not the total equation.

Or did you just want cheap gas for the Bronco?

These energy visions guys claim in their FAQs ttp://www.energy-visions.com/faq.htm that they produce their own energy from the produced carbon neutral diesel fuel and use only 10% of the energy created for their own production. This would be a highly positive energy balance.

Also they claim to be able to convert waste material, including agro waste. Converting rice straw, chaff and wood chips to diesel and using only 10% of the produced fuel (biodiesel 33%, ethanol 85% to 120%, depending on the point of view), this could be a solution:

Plants convert CO2 with photosynthesis into biomass, which is then converted back to CO2 again in the engine. The car would be a part of the natural CO2 cycle.

Water electrolysis is only 60% efficient, H2 fuel cells only 50% efficient, plus energy is needed to compress (or worse, liquify) H2 for storage. Overall, 25% efficient or less. Compare that with 85% efficiency for batteries and charger. Why waste limited renewables (solar, wind, hydro, etc.) making H2 when there is a 3x more efficient option? Let's save renewables to reduce fossil fuel use for power generation!

I checked out the "switch2hydrogen" website and was not impressed. They are basically touting a very expensive way of producing small quantities of H2 by solar powered electrolysis. The website is "under construction" but apparently hasn't been updated since 2005. There were a few "car conversion kits" listed for $7,000 to $10,000, small storage tanks for $1,700 to $2,200 each, and several components with price "TBD". These were listed as "not available", the only items actually for sale was a solar panel, a plastic fuel line, and a T shirt. They had a convenient excuse for not selling anything else, with a bogus claim that the CPSC had banned the sale of materials they needed to make these items. There is a big plea for donations - hey, it's easier to just ask the dupes to send you money than to actually do hard work and produce something.

The proposed storage tanks use metal hydrides, and apparently are $8,800 of the $10,000 conversion kit cost - and that only gets 100 mile driving range on H2. (the cheaper version gets only 75 miles)

I never proposed that all existing cars be converted to electrics, much better to use Butanol and Biodiesel for older cars - no special conversions needed at all! Battery electrics are for the future - far more efficient than "H2 IC engines", cheaper and more efficient than H2 fuel cells.

Yes, batteries wear out, but so do IC engines and transmissions, and even electrolysis units. It's good that all of them can potentially be recycled. Compared to batteries, IC engines are far less "environmentally safe" - they consume oxygen and emit various toxic pollutants all the time they are operating, and contain ptentially hazardous motor oil and large quantities of toxic antifreeze for coolant. Properly maintained, batteries emit no pollutants, and properly recycled present little environmental risk.

Just for laughs...Maybe it's time to return to days of my youth and ride a horse. Wells Fargo, the US Postal Service and others did well with horses. A "green-powered" hay burner is environmentally friendly and much cheaper to acquire than a new auto. That'll leave us with plenty of $$$ left over for hay & grain plus vet costs! Hey...no insurance to HAVE to purchase, either! More $$$ in our pockets!

Seriously...We need to change so many 'things' in AMERICA. On the fuels issue: Big oil has and will continue to fight tooth and nail to combat any & all alternative fuels. Got money...buy yourself an elected official or two in Washington. Greed and corruption, plus the "me first" mentality that rears it ugly head on the highways, at the gas pumps, even at the grocery store and McDonalds, has lead us down a faulty path. Until we rid Congress (the whole of the USA, too) of the self-serving @$$(+!#$..., nothing is going to move forward, very far or very fast UNTIL we actually hit the wall (greater than $5/gal fuel prices and/or an immediate and significantly-reduced availability of foreign oil)! When it's too late to recover...(ask any bug on your windshield), that's when EVERYONE will come together on this issue and promote, no DEMAND and receive hydrogen or electric vehicles with plenty of places for convenient refueling or recharging with very reasonable purchase and operating costs.

Today, gas in the "Gateway City" reached $3.179 today. It's going to go higher and higher because the MEDIA tells us it will. See...we just expect the increases, fuss and mumble about it and fuel-up anyway. Ever wondered if there's any connection between what we hear on every broadcast about anticipated prices and VIOLA...their prophacies come true. How about radio and television "journalists" telling Americans that gas prices should drop to $1.50/gal. Never happen, but it would be a mild extrinsic force upon the fuel producers to curb their 15-40 cents, overnight increases. Gas was $2.779 yesterday morning. We set back and allow the wool to be pulled over our eyes and then expect to be sheared! May GOD help us all!

WAKE UP AMERICA!

My choice: HYDROGEN. CHEAP, cheap, cheap and plenty of it on the big blue marble!

Hi, I am from Brazil and I have been using Ethanool car since middle 80s. At that time Ethanols price used to be supported by the governement since it used to be more expensive to be produced than gas.It was made to develop distribution network. We used to have discount in taxes to buy and maintain Ethanol cars.

Nowdays the governement stopped supporting so much Ethanol, but as gas price has increased a lot, Ethanol prices is almost 50% gas price. Cars, like my GM Meriva consumpsion with ethanol is around 20% higher than using gas but as price is 50% less, it is worth.

Sugar cane season here in So Paulo is between April until November. Out of this time, the price gets little higher bus as the car is flex fuel, I can run using gas.

It is interesting when you notice that you are thowing h20 from escape pipe.

Marcos Lima

First off if the plants were running on clean power that would cut a huge percent in pollution. That is not the current issue, but should be included.

Hydride tanks are the way to go...

There are materials call Hydrides that absorb Hydrogen like a sponge absorbs water. Typically, the tanks are filled with granulated Hydrides, and Hydrogen is pressurized into the material. Hydrides have many advantages over liquid & gas. One is that the density of the Hydrogen stored in the Hydride can be GREATER than that of liquid Hydrogen. This translates directly into smaller and fewer storage tanks.
Once the Hydride is "charged" with Hydrogen, the Hydrogen becomes chemically bonded to the chemical. Even opening the tank, or cutting it in half will not release the Hydrogen gas. In addition, you could even fire incendiary bullets through the tank and the Hydride would only smolder like a cigarette. It is in fact, a safer storage system than your Gasoline tank is.
Then how do you get the Hydrogen back out? To release the Hydrogen gas from the Hydride, it simply needs to be heated. This is either done electrically, using the waste exhaust heat, or using the waste radiator coolant heat.

Taken from: http://www.switch2hydrogen.com/h2.htm

The last self serve filling station with FREE compressed air around here closed a long time ago. Now it's $1 for a few minutes using a weeny compressor. You take $1 of filling station compressed air and I'll take $1 of gasoline or diesel, and see how far we go.

using compressed air to store energy is terribly inefficient.

I can get free compressed air at several gas stations near where I'm at in Missouri. There are others that charge a quarter for enough air to do all four car tires. Automotive parts stores sell air compressors (try JCWhitney or similar) so it's possible to get compressed air if you've got a handy electric outlet to plug it in.

My favorite alternative fuel is a hamburger. If we just put the car away for awhile, especially when we go a couple of blocks to the store. I have this radical idea, walk or ride a bike. If you live in an area where it's difficult to do this, complain to your representative about putting in sidewalks. A consequence of my idea may result in one getting healthier.
If one of two things happened, we could cut off our addiction to OPEC.
1) Walk (run) or bike a lot.
2) Buy a car that gets 45 mpg not one that goes 0 to 60 mph in 5 seconds.

Hemp. Hemp, hemp, hemp, hemp, hemp. People don't understand, when they hear the word hemp, they automatically think marijuana. That's not true at all. Marijuana is the female part of the hemp plant, it is possible to grow just the hemp. Hemp grows like bamboo, with long stalks and leaves that come off of them. The stalks have endless uses. They are made into a fiber and used to make the form of hemp we use for macram. The seeds of the hemp plant are comparable to sunflower seeds, as a means of food. They are also used to make cooking oils, and the seeds can be used to make a non dairy milk, somewhat similar to soy milk. 3035% of the weight of hempseed is oil containing 80% of the unsaturated essential fatty acids (EFAs), linoleic acid (LA, 55%) and Alpha-linoleic acid (ALA, 2125%). These are not manufactured by the body and must be supplied by food.
Typical nutritional analysis of shelled hempseed:
Calories/100 g 567
Protein (Nx5.46) 30.6%
Fat 47.2%
Saturated fat 5.2%
Monounsaturated fat 5.8%
Polyunsaturated fat 36.2%
Carbohydrate 10.9%
Oleic 18:1 (Omega-9) 5.8%
Linoleic 18:2 (Omega-6) 27.56%
Linolenic 18:3 (Omega-3) 8.68%
Cholesterol 0.0%
Total dietary fiber 6.0%
Vitamin A (B-Carotene) 4 IU/100 g
Thiamine (Vit B1) 1.38 mg/100 g
Riboflavin (Vit B2) 0.33 mg/100 g
Vitamin B6 0.12 mg/100 g
Vitamin C 1.0 mg/100 g
Vitamin D 2277.5 IU/100 g[citation needed]
Vitamin E 8.96 IU/100 g
Sodium 9.0 mg/100 g
Calcium 74.0 mg/100 g
Iron 4.7 mg/100 g

But sticking to the point of the discussion. Hemp can also be used to make a bio-fuel. Bio-fuels such as bio-diesel and alcohol fuel can be made from the oils in hemp seeds and stalks, and the fermentation of the plant as a whole, respectively, but the energy from hemp is low compared with the volume of the harvested hemp.

(The information used here can be found at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hemp)

Methane clathrates are a sort of water/methane "ice" crystal, stable only at low temperatures and high pressures. Methane gas is released when the "ice" is melted.

There is considerable potential, as these clathrate beds are very large in deep cold water regions. The big problem is figuring out how to tap this source safely and economically, and many companies are working on it.

solar is great and all but not appropriate to directly power autos. You have to charge a battery or a flywheel or something.

biodiesel is like liquid solar power.

My suggestion would be electricty. Why? Because it's a renewable source.Actually a car could be built that runs on electricty and at the same time recharge the source. I mean cars now days have alternators in them to recharge the battery, right, so why not have the same thing in an electric car? It's really not that complicated.You have Lithieum batteries in the car and an alternator could be recharging them at the same time just as the cars do now days. I mean what's the big deal. They could also put recharging stations at rest stops and truck stops, also one at your own home. But we are up against the strongest lobbiest in the world, the OIL Producers. They are so money hungry they can't think beyond the tip of their noses about OIL and MONEY. Gas is up to almost $3 to$4 dollars a gollon now! WHY, Because we the consumers are stupid and will pay the prices for it. I mean what other mode of transportation is there? Where I live there are no buses running, I would have to call a cab to come and pick me up and they are costly. So People we either have to say OK we willpay the price of gas just so we can go to work just to have to put it in our fuel tanks to get us to work and shopping for food ect. So the auto and oil producers know exactually what they are doing. They have us by the Ba....s! I say if every one would take at least one day off a week and not go anywhere to use their car that would really hit the oil producers below the belt. Think of it! over millions of people not going to work at least one day a week would put the bite on the oil producers, they would loose millions of dollars that day. I think it's high time we start fighting back and saying NO we aren't going to pay these high prices for Gas.

By using an induction type generator, the only drag is against the air. No brushes, and no heavy drag. It is common belief that you can't produce more lectric enery than what you input, regardless of the source of the input. Magnetic generators can spin for long periods of time, but the problem their is that the magnets lose their power and would have to be replaced frequently or recharged via coils, and that elctricity needed would take from the elctric required to move the vehicle.

Yes, electric is the most abundant form of energy in the universe. Electrons are everywhere, even in the spaces between particles of matter. There are too many names to mention here, but they all discovered this at least 200 years ago. Henry T. Moray and Nikola Tesla both used dielectrics to tap into this energy and produced more useful electric than what was input.

Elctricity is the solution, not generated by fuels, but extracted from the space that contains such an abundance of it.

Think outside the box!

A breif tutorial on batteries:

A battery DOES NOT provide energy to power a circuit. Rather the chemical reaction inside the battery causes negative charges to accumulate at the negative pole and postive charges at the positive pole. This is a "dipole" and effect the Zero Point Energy that is always there. Even while the battery is sitting onthe shelf, these massive +/- charges are massing around that dipole. Once you complete a curcuit, the ZPE will attempt to balance itself by providing elctrons to flow in a linear motion IN THE SPACE AROUND the conductor. But we only utilize the elecrons that flow on the conductor, hence waste most of the real energy, not because it cannot be used, but because our technology has been limited by beliefs that it does not exsist.