Home audio & video forum: $180 Power Conditioner vs. $2 Radio Shack surge protector

However, if one experiences brownouts, I think the best solution would be a UPS device as made by APC, Belkin, etc. Wouldn't you agree?

re: brownouts, there are those who believe sags in voltage are just as bad as the spikes themselves. I think certain electronics are more prone than others, and STBs seem to be one of them.

as for overpriced surge protectors, its really just about the joules. Of course, Bob The Moderator would probably tell you that with lightning nothing is enough anyways... so whatever...

TrippLite seems to be a good value.

Im not the guy to ask, sorry. I'll tell you the little that I do know. My first advice is to call APC, as I hear their CS is good. I have heard TWO reliable sources say that their refurbs are prolly the best deals.

I use a Belkin only connected to my pj. It makes a bit of noise which is strange. My PC UPS does not. Hm.

What kind of features? 1k is a LOT.

What you will need to figure out is how many watts you'll need. And what really needs to be connected. Amplifiers can be a doozie, and that includes your sub. I've heard before that amps potentially draw the very most right at turn on, in order for the caps to be charged, for instance.

If amp/receiver and sub don't need to be connected, I think you can save a lot. Just use one to connect players, tv, etc, and you won't need a huge UPS I imagine. HTH.

Thanks for the links, jostenmeat. I think what I am looking for is a UPS that can send out an IR signal to my TV to turn it off when the power goes out so I don't have to be home or at the ready. The APC regular UPS power strip looks like a good option if I want to just get something on the cheap for now.

I'll keep looking around.

conditioner.

When getting first big screen installed it was a big deal expense for me & I was not totally satisfied with the picture. I politely had the installers back & then called the cable company.

The cable guy took a quick look then did a quick, simple demo. On general principle I had run the electricity through a surge protector I already had. With it in line my picture experienced noticeable artifacts of some electrical fuzz that were imperfections of the image on the screen.

He simply unhooked that surge unit & showed me the picture with the juice going straight to the components. It was the surge unit creating the interference!!!

So, I got a unit specifically labeled as being for audio video use. Yes, that was a tad more money, but did the job. It may seem peculiar that an old surge unit was responsible for introducing the artifact problem. But the difference was as plain as day to me in my circumstances.

Yes, I had collected some actual derision from a few regulars here as they are very well qualified with formal knowledge of electricity, etc. They made a point that copper is copper & clean looking sine waves can be seen on oscilloscopes. Yes, & watts are watts. One said I was seeing what I needed to see by being psychosomatic. But hey, if you see artifacts degrading the picture, they too, are fact.

I had crap degrading my picture; many other folks don't. If they seem unnecessary, than that is the easy way to go - without. Other makers have units costing a grand. That company makes high end stuff. There is a problem of voodoo science being involved as the makers may have an involved explanation that informed outsiders may say is unsupported voodoo science.

I've noticed that many people are concerned about the surge protection, mostly from lightning/storms. Since I live in the Los Angeles area, I'm really not that concerned with major surge protection...in 20 years I don't think I've ever seen lightning here, so the only surge would be a relatively minor/typical power company surge, which I expect my $2 Radio Shack unit could handle? If it takes a hit, I can easily replace it, although I realized it might not be easy to tell.

My main concern, however, is not surge protection, it's the value of the "dirty A/C filtering" that I'm really skeptical about...and in my case, this does NOT involve running my cable coax through a box. Any reason to believe that the built-in Samsung power supply is not good enough?

Actually, I've had a hard time finding reliable information relating to the "AC filtering" need, which was why I started this post. As I stated at the begining, my inquiry isn't about surge protection - I know that is needed. I really was hoping we could hear from Samsung (or the like) about the need for the filtering.

I've seen as many arguments for needing the filtering (people claiming they see a difference) as I have against, but I still haven't read any technical evidence to support either side...at this point it has all been opinion.

The subject wouldn't need to be beaten to death if we simply understood what the input stage to the TVs power supply is expecting...but, at this point, I still don't have that answer.

Either way, I've decided to take the fancy strip back, and just keep using my $2 Radio Shack unit.

starting to think! (assuming by "FUD" you meant...uh, not true?) I guess that was really my point...I've studied the theory, and I see no basis for the claims made, but I've also not seen any good evidence. So...now I'm really interested in finding out what's really going on, and if this is all a bunch of marketing crap (which is what I expect now), I'll post my reviews on these products accordingly.

For the record, I grew up in Michigan in the 70s/80s, with major thunderstorms and lightning. I played guitar and owned "expensive" amps and stereo gear which was ALWAYS plugged directly into the wall. Not once did I ever have a surge problem or distortion issue...so, now out here in "no-weather" California, I'm really doubtful about the need for any of this expensive stuff. It looks cool, but I need proof before I waste my money.

here in the Home Audio & Video. We do have a Samsung employee with the moniker of Mr. Samsung who posts here from time to time.

As a Samsung owner I have had problematic experience with Samsung customer relations. I was persistent enough that I was then given the phone number for "Executive Customer Relations." Persistence was again called for. It took 6 months to resolve a warranty problem.

We do occasionally get EEs posting here as well as equally technologically knowledgeable. I am merely an old small time audiophile.

But, take a moment to consider your reference to a $2 surge protector. Frankly, that sounds a bit high handed. Since surge protection is vital, won't you consider one rated for a high amount of joules? My old unit which introduced interference was not a $2 unit but around $40.

response to problems.

I don't use a line conditioner for my personal audio. But is it folly to spend for a surge unit with very high joules ratings as an appropriate response to danger; & hence insurance because my speakers are $4000, my receiver is $4000 & my disk player is $1500. Those numbers were very serious expense for me. Only because I consider this my final & ultimate outfit after 50 years of loving recorded music. I sure as hell never let my wife know what these things were costing.

So, with a serious investment, why not regard $50 as reasonable for that level of surge protection. By the way, our moderator is an advocate of daisy chaining his whole house with multiple units for a redundancy of extra protection level. Still, nothing can guarantee you from a near hit of lightning. I have experienced ball lightning coming down & out the chimney & bouncing to a nearby wall, burning the wallpaper.

I also had a $20 surge unit save my computer a few years back by sacrificing itself by melting. Cheap insurance when the power company was changing out the nearby pole transformer. The workers wired it backwards. Talk about big surge. The next door social security office had their fluorescent lights melted as well as all 20 of their computers.

That is why I am inclined to spend more than the minimum for surge protection.

The age of the house really doesn't have much to do with it, directly. If there are a minimum numbers of circuits on a house, I've seen the line voltage dip a bit when too much current was being pulled...the dimming lights are giveaway. Most modern electronics have voltage regulators and dedicated input circuits in them to deal with this. As for dirty AC, have you ever hooked up an oscope to one of your outlets? My waveforms are perfect. This is coming from the electric company, not from a cheap $20 inverter putting out a modified sine wave (sawtooth, say it!) you picked up at the swapmeet. A surge protector is all you need. Whether it's a cheapo or expensive unit, most of them have a simple, cheap MOV (metal oxide varistor) in them to clamp the voltage. When it blows, it's just like a fuse, except more charred and smelly.

My house was build in the fifties with a not so updated electrical wiring and the area experiences a lot of dipps in power ,and so all my power outlet that has large appliances and electrical equipments are connected to UPS and APC is my brand of choice .But I am lucky I didnt buy these guys at retail.My intertainment system ie Samsung Plasma,Reciever,PC Media center are connected to the APC model with the power conditioner in it.

However in the long run ,(when we have the budget) I will have to update the house's electrical system to filter and clean the area's fluctuating power supply.

a ups is good for anything with circuts and s expensive

going from your quote here, the circuts for the fridge/dishwasher might not be as vunerable as feared but a UPS does not hurt, but no proof it helps (point to you)

Laptops, Computers (in general), and TV's (and there accessories)
REQUIRE UPS's due to all the high cost of replacing them.

If a computer browns out the low voltage can cause things to mess up in the cpu or ram or the motherboard. ( As I understand it, browning out the power to a computer can cause the parts i listed to short at times destroying them and damaging the device)

TV's and accessories are the same deal somewhat. Some TV's want to cool there cpu/bulbs after the power goes off to cool them off and extend the life of the appliance.

I know a TV or accessory can be damaged just like a computer can with a undervoltage short.

Plus the noise or other line issues that are real. Someone mentioned saying th power company's power is 100% clean, sorry it may be good for your area at times, but there are always issues at sometimes, and its even worse if you loose power because surges/brownouts in the voltage that happens when it restarts after a blackout as as bad as the loss of power itself.

When you power a device down properly, you give it a chance to clean itself out of all the power and make sure it can start up properly next time.

|Aside from that...so what if your fridge, dishwasher, laptop |computer, TV or A/V stuff experiences a loss of power? What will |happen? They'll shut down, as if you hit the power switch, and then |come back on...even appliances (Air conditioner, fridge) that use |compressors already have built-in protection...at least they should. |Anyway, why the need for UPS?

That is sort of an unrealistic attitude. If your questions are Samsung specific, for heavens sake pose those questions to Samsung.

You intend to be pretty much as cheap as possible when confronting things like surge protectors. Extra measures of joules come with additional increments of cost, but they seem not excessive to me.

If you insist on valuing your Radio Shack $2 warranty, why bother us with it? And you state your TV came with a warranty. Well yes, but testing the veracity of it is not a worthwhile proposition/goal. I hope you selected it with some mind to quality.

We are mostly a good intentions forum here. Especially considering your ample educational level, I don't understand why you haven't been in touch with Samsung technical service.

Questions are fine. I won't however entertain a battle of semantics. Let simple facts be simple facts. Give it a rest, dude.