by: WingNut757 October 21, 2006 6:19 AM PDT
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1080p Now or Wait a Few Years?
by WingNut757 - 10/21/06 6:19 AM
I am close to buying my first HDTV. It will be an LCD, either 37" or 40" in order to achieve the right fit. I'm leaning towards a 40" Samsung. My big question is whether or not to purchase 1080p technology now or to wait. I've heard Standard Def programming will look worse on a 1080p television. I'd like to ride this TV for 4 or 5 years. Also, if anyone can STRONGLY recommend a certain TV, please do. Thanks...
1080p
by Sam54 - 11/3/06 3:16 AM
In Reply to: 1080p Now or Wait a Few Years? by WingNut757
Dude,
You could wait, but why?. 1080p set on the whole will do a decent job upscaling 1080i (read home theater from October to see which ones), but those will say wait until the 1080p's become cheap, but then the 2160's will be out , what then? Enjoy it today.......live it too short to wait, wait and wait........The price is low enough to go for NOW. There will always be something better next year, but will you or your eyes be around to see it?
Plus the fact standard def will be going the way of the dodo in a couple of years, (unless all your viewing is of
evangelists on UHF stations)
A 1080p set will deinterlace a 1080i signal no need to rescale since it's 1920x1080.
Deinterlacing is easy to, upscaling is the problem that most are complaining about.
A 1080p WILL upscale SD, 480i/p, and 720p to 1080p. The BIG$$$ sets do a better job of this than the lower cost sets. John
Just some FYI!
by jaybme82 - 11/9/06 9:01 PM
In Reply to: Just some FYI! by jcrobso
1) I think that proper 1080p sets don't actually deinterlace a 1080i
signal which would deteriate the signal:
A) I think that a 1080i signal comes in at 1080 and then
B) It is displayed as 1080p with a proper 1080p TV!
2)A proper 1080i set would have to ask extra questions
A) Is the signal 1080 if yes?
A) I think that a 1080i signal comes in at 1080 and then in
addition to what calculations would have to be carried out for
a 1080p
1: It would have to first show the odd lines and then
2: It would have to secondly show even lines
3) Using computer programming.
For example let me try and give you an indication of the problem:
1) Let bottom number = BN = zero
2) let top number = TN = 1080
3) Let count = C = BN = zero
For a proper 1080p TV
4) C = C + 1 = 1
5) Display frame
6) If C = 1080 Yes, goto the next frame.
7) If no, Goto 4)
Hopefully, as you can see the 1080i TV waste time and memory etcetera!
Unfortunately, I don't know enough about Aspect Ratios - upscaling SD, 480, and 720 to 1080p but it shouldn't be too difficult with the mathematical techniques available.
One of the reasons why I purchased my Panasonic widescreen prologic TV, in 1999 was because it was one of the first TVs, which probably solved the problem of objects or people being fat on the TV, and also stretching picture problems.
With a widescreen TV there are numerous different, 'Aspect Ratios' to be taken into account not just 16:9 & 4:3.
Very few TVs appear to be 720, because they appear to be 733 but whatever method used it should be based on the best mathematical fit for whatever is the source and preferably that is 1080.
I think that it was the HDMI, which stated that resolution may be increased to 1440, which is 3 x 480, which is interesting.
It is also 2 x 720p, which is even more interesting.
This means probably means that if the folowwing is excellent; frequence, response, computer chip, graphics, and memory even 1440i maybe better than 1080p with no fast moving picture problems.
Ok, More FYI.
by jcrobso - 11/10/06 8:20 AM
In Reply to: Just some FYI! by jaybme82
In in video we call it a deinterlacing buffer. I will try to describe how it works.
For 1080i/p the buffer would be 1920x1080. when a 1080i video is received the first 540 pixel rows are the odd horizontal rows 1,3,5, etc. they are stored in buffer at positions 1, 3, 5 etc.
When the second 540 rows are received they are stored in the buffer at rows 2, 4, 6 etc. after all 1080 rows have been received the video frame in now complete and can then be displayed progressively. I hope this helps. John
I have probably answered this question in full to somebody else, but don't ask me where it is, because I found this section by luck, whilst trying to find a previous section.
You should read the following website pages, because all the HD products sold world wide are faulty it appears.
My advice to anybody is not to buy any HD products unless they have to.
Until, at least the product contains
1) HDMI 1.3
2) The HDCP incompatible problems solved
3) Dolby TRUEHD sound
4) Dolby Digital Plus sound and
3) I would require a lot more things before I buy
Read website's pages:-
http://hdmi.org/about/faq.asp
http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/articles/2006/09/hdmi_part_10_-.php
http://www.dolby.com/promo/HD/
One of the problema is that nothing happens over night.
Pro equipment is VERY expensive!!!! Takes a lot of money to convert!!!
HD sound is just stating to appear in pro sound magazines.
HD sound is in it's infancy, HDTV is a toddler.
When color TV came out in the US(1955-6) it was all most 10 years before all broadcasting was in color.
Lets compare this to USB, USB spec 1.0 was useless, USB 1.1 is OK, USB 2.0 is very good. The same things are happening with HDMI.
I agree that HDMI prior to the 1.3 spec was lacking to say the least. john
One of the problems is that nothing happens over night.
by jaybme82 - 11/17/06 7:46 PM
In Reply to: One of the problema is that nothing happens over night. by jcrobso
Prices for professional equipment are probably still a rip-off!
It would be interesting to compare the performances, especially for picture, and the prices between the best domestic HD video cameras to the non-HD expensive professional cameras!
I think in the past that if a professional and a domestic product had similar technical specification, the professional labeled version would cost substantially much more.
It appears that the sound problem has been completely solved a long time ago:-
1) Dolby TrueHD and
2) Dolby Digital Plus
3) DTS-HD
Probably, the principal reason why HD sound isn't in HD products, for example HD TVs, are to maximize their profits (firms could have included HD sound but hasn't!
In fact, some firms falsely claimed that 5.1 was HD sound instead of using HD sound.
They probably want consumers worldwide to buy probably defective HD TVs without HD sound and twin digital tuners.
Then tell consumers (over a period of years) to buy TVs with; HDMI,1920x1080p,HDCP and or AACS (problems solved),only placing one HDMI on early models, Picture (PIP) - there is a long list including wireless and voice recognition, which in my opinion should be included!
In the past, I think that firms usually worked at least ten years ahead.
This means that the only reasons why better products are not marketed faster is to maximize profits it appears!
NB! We wouldn't have HD products at the moment if the organisations were making enough profits!!!
We also wouldn't have Intel Duo processors if it wasn't for AMD reducing Intel's profit and market share is my opinion!
So, I disagree with what you are implying that it is a natural progression!
The only natural progression is when organisations are not making enough money as a last resort they market a new product.
For example why should manufacturers cap (limit) colour to produce a poorer, quality picture, whilst not only providing specialist DVDs and hardware for stores to mitigate the defects but use propaganda to claim that picture quality is much better than CRT.
See website: http://hdmi.org/about/faq.asp
Dolby's website:
http://www.dolby.com/promo/HD/
wait if you can, the new laser sets are due next year
by wlsmp3 - 11/3/06 4:28 AM
In Reply to: 1080p Now or Wait a Few Years? by WingNut757
The newest technology is going to be laser projection and is comming from Australia of all places. Sets using it do show a fantastic picture but it is a projection system. If you want the thinness and light weight of an LCD then go for the Samsung not the Sony. Sony sets use the Samsung lcd so the picture is the same just diferent packaging and input features. If you don't need three HDMI inputs and who does the Samsung is the bettter value. I've looked at both in the size. actually I would reccomend the 47 inch. Do wait untill the Xmas season for the best buys. Retailers will be trying to get rid of inventory then to boost their sales for the year.
wait if you can, the new laser sets are due next year
by jcrobso - 11/3/06 9:45 AM
In Reply to: wait if you can, the new laser sets are due next year by wlsmp3
I never hold my breath waiting for the next great thing.
I saw my first HDTV demo in 1983, will it's finally here!! But my old TV bit the dust so in 1992 I got my 32" CRT, couldn't wait for the HDTVs to come out.
New technology takes time to get stable, I try to stay away from the bleeding edge of technology, maybe that's why I have two CRT based HDTVs. By the time I have to replace them the next great thing will be well established, reliable and reasonable cost. John
MR BARRINGTON MORE ON EUROPIEN TELEVISION PLEASE
by stewart norrie - 11/3/06 1:21 PM
In Reply to: wait if you can, the new laser sets are due next year by jcrobso
From what I understand your transmission standard is better than here in the u.s.a. what are the specs? Also I heard you chaps get to see a lot of boobs, as-, etc on the t.v. ads and sex shows Iam ready to pack my bag ha ha,Also understand you are into hi-end tube, amps turntables anolog sound stereo gear , how interesting , In closing Iam in a LAUREL AND HARDY fan club here in San Jose Ca. and It seems they are still popular in the U.K. tell us a little about whats up in the U.K would like to know have a nice day steweeeeee
Wait if you can, the new laser sets are due next year
by jaybme82 - 11/17/06 8:30 PM
In Reply to: wait if you can, the new laser sets are due next year by wlsmp3
NB!!! Don't buy any HD products unless they have HDMI 1.3 version!
See HDMI's official website:
http://hdmi.org/about/faq.asp
The new technology is called Laser DLP, which if marketed next year especially with HDMI 1.3, Twin Tuners, Picture-in-Picture, VGA, optical,scarts, should be excellent!
I think of projection as usually meaning; Front or rear projections.
Mitsubishi should have already created a prototype but it would be interesting to compare 40"-42" size to the Sony 1920x1080p TVs.
Laser DLPs should be in theory far superior to LCDs but we shall just have to wait and see, because it maybe just hype.
I hope if any organizations does create an excellent Laser TV that they market it in England.
The problem is if the organisation is Mitsubishi that their headquarters change their policy and market it in the UK.
I go for picture quality and arguably the Sony 1080p TVs are probably the best 40"-42" range.
It appears that despite that Samsung makes Sony TVs, I actually cannot remember one review, which I have read, which states that Samsung TVs have the same excellent picture quality as Sony.
If you can find a review that states that Samssung's TVs are as good as Sony then please place the website of the review on this site.
Samsung has been receiving awards for design and not for picture quality.
Sony does a 1080p with 2 and 3 HDMIs.
There will be what is looked like best buys because the newgeneration HD products including TVs with HDMI 1.3 should be available early 2007.
NB!!! Therefore, as stated above I would consider buying any HD product without HDMI 1.3 and without the HDCP compatibility problems solved is a complete waste of money!
Philips has created a HDMI 1.3 chip, which should cost about U$0.97, and save at least hundreds in buying better HD products, to obtain the same performance!
In England, I have not read any reviews about the new Samsung's 1080p TV.
Depends - the right answer here for free!
by wdlee123 - 11/3/06 5:44 PM
In Reply to: 1080p Now or Wait a Few Years? by WingNut757
The human eye can only resolve so much detail. The answer to your question is a ratio between diagonal screen size and viewing distance. Therefore the right answer is - with 1080p content the ideal viewing distance is 1.55x the diagonal screen size. Anything farther back and the benefit of 1080p detail begins to fall off quickly. Informationally, with 1080i content the ideal viewing distance is 2.1x the screen size, 720p @ 2.3x, and 480p @ 4x. In practice a 40'' display with 1080p content requires a 62'' viewing distance to appreciate. For me that's too close. In the final analysis 40'' displays rarely benefits the customer by offerring 1080p capability. This is best left for large sets. Good Luck!.....
Buy that 1080i - but a Sony
by Phil O - 11/3/06 6:31 PM
In Reply to: 1080p Now or Wait a Few Years? by WingNut757
I got a Sony XBR2 46" and was amazed at how good the SD looked. I too was concerned that the SD - on a 1080i set would look bad - - NOT SO . . . especially in "wide zoom" mode that slightly widens and slightly zooms to fill the entire screen - but does not make the newscastes face look bloated.
Of course - the HD signals look outstanding! PS got a HDMI cable from Wal-Mart for around 30 bucks - -they work just as well as the "Monster" brand thatr costs around a hundred . . .
Confusion and Purchasing
by forkboy - 11/8/06 8:30 AM
In Reply to: 1080p Now or Wait a Few Years? by WingNut757
You know, I jumped onto this discussion because my wife and I have recently dicussed the option of purchasing a new LCD/Plasma/DLP/whatever television and I often turn to CNET for reviews and opinions (as well as to my Consumer Reports subsubscriptions).
I'm walking away convinced that Chris in NH (message number 41) is right: this whole thing is quite absurd, which isn't exactly what he says, but I believe he too feels quite overwhelmed and confused and that it's absurd (my word).
I'm not a tech nube by any stretch, but I find the onslaught of formats, t.v. types, transmissions, etc. just too much. Buying a t.v. used to be relatively easy - who made the best picture tube (over simplified, but very close to the mark).
It's clear that no matter what Wingnut decides its a win/lose proposition. Wait and you get more bang for less buck; no doubt. Buy now and you can enjoy the fruits of your research right away. But to make a sound decision you almost have to have a degree in engineering or, at the very least, a very sound understanding of all the techno-jargon and what it really means and how all of it integrates. Or better put: What is real and what is just b.s.
After reading all 57 of the previous postings I have almost come to the conclusion that it's time to turn off the t.v., cancel my cable subscription and start reading more!
Of course, that's not going to happen, but thanks to everyone for posting and making this both informative and fun!
Add to this that most sales people don't know ,
by jcrobso - 11/9/06 8:44 AM
In Reply to: Confusion and Purchasing by forkboy
what all of this HDTV stuff means and it becomes a nightmare!!!! BBY is at least training their HT sales people.
I spent 6 months looking for a HDTV, I did take my time, left my credit cards in the car I did, dose help reduce impulse buying.
The first thing is to decide how much you want to spend.
Next is how big a screen do you want.
Now you can tackle what kind on HDTV Plasma, LCoS, LCD.
I figure by next year HDTVs will be 720p or 1080p, the 1080i sets will fade from the market.
"It's clear that no matter what Wingnut decides its a win/lose proposition." Sadly there is a lot of truth in this statement.
Anyone remember the TV adds from a PC company that showed the guy on his way home with his band new Mark II PC and then sees an add for the brand new Mark III PC? such is life. John
And now I might have to get an ANTENNA? What's THAT?
by ChrisNH38 - 11/9/06 11:03 AM
In Reply to: Confusion and Purchasing by forkboy
The cherry on top of the cake is that to get over-the-air HD broadcasts you'll need an antenna. My twenty-year-old son, who works at Circuit City in Nashua, NH, probably doesn't even know that an antenna was the way you got TV reception in the 'old days.' The more things change, the more they stay the same. I might have to buy an ANTENNA...I'm 'rolling on the floor laughing,' or ROFL in net-speak.
I'm concluding--slowly--that 1080p may not be worth the premium that someone might like to extract from me. I hear it said, though, that the bigger the set, the more 1080p matters. So, a 50" plasma might benefit from being 1080p. But then there's the whole issue of source material...what's being broadcast and what my DVDs are capable of (480?). I'm not one of these 'gotta get Blu-Ray' kind of guys either.
I will be reading the tea leaves through the early part of 2007, and perhaps earmark my tax refund towards a new plasma. My 2007 tax return probably won't show a refund, because of all that home-cooked 'liberalism' I'm going to have to pay for. You see, because I make more than $15,000 per year I'm considered 'rich' to the liberals and should be taxed to death. 'Middle Class' is $10 to $14,999. 'Poor' is $0-$9 annual income.
Sorry you're too rich
by NM_Bill - 11/9/06 12:15 PM
In Reply to: And now I might have to get an ANTENNA? What's THAT? by ChrisNH38
Wasn't it the phony excuse for conservatism that just took a pretty big hit. My kudos to Dubya for being on TV bright & early the next morning proclaiming the moment a fine time for fresh eyes. It wasn't really a Democratic victory but a Republican squander. The country inches towards the center. Mostly moderate Reps were replaced by somewhat conservative Dems. I'm just a local amateur, so why was Dubya as surprised as I was? Anyone who wants to make sure they never miss a word from the mouth of O'Reilly is welcome to do so. Oh my goodness, O'Reilly tried to demonize by tying Pelosi to, gasp, San Francisco. I'd rather visit San Fran than O'Reilly. Stewee, they're infringing on your turf. With financial survival of the fittest or, gasp, liberals, it seems either way I won't have loose bucks for HD toys.
Never mind the digression, I too, am talking about antennas as a relic of the dark ages. I tired to get one of those gas TVs instead of electric so I could watch in lines down weather. Or should I endeavor to find one that runs on ethanol so I can subsidize Archer Daniels Midland & corn farmers? Corn is nearly as notorious as cotton for stripping the soil so that we, then can use petroleum for fertilizers to grow more corn. Could we commercially tap the weed source? Here in the New Mexican desert I could put up solar, but who is going to calculate the total energy inputs to make the panels? Well, solar panels are antennas for sunlight.
Awww
by blklacker - 11/9/06 12:32 PM
In Reply to: And now I might have to get an ANTENNA? What's THAT? by ChrisNH38
If you make 15,000 a year you need to take that TV money and either go back to school and get a better job, or get a better job.
Yes I do agree with you; people that make 15,000-20,000 a year should not be taxed. That is just messed up. How do you live on that??
CNET states "it's not all that it's cracked up to be"
by NewsyL - 11/10/06 2:34 PM
In Reply to: 1080p Now or Wait a Few Years? by WingNut757
You MUST read this article that CNET just published...
"The case against 1080p"
http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-6449_7-6661274-1.html?tag=nl.e702
Save your money and get a better sound system to enhance your viewing experience.
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