MP3 players forum: Best portable digital Audio Recorder for under $200 ?

Charles,

Thanks for the detailed review of the Edirol R-1. It anwered the questions I had already in my mind as to the potential limitations of the device. You nailed them all!!

The Marantz PMD660 looks neat and I like the concept of a CompactFLASH based digital audio recorder that is portable. But Marantz really let us down on this.

There is a more complete review by by Doug Kaye:

http://www.rds.com/blogs/doug/index.php/archives/2005/04/14/marantz-pmd660-revisited/

My comments are at http://4webresults.com/blog/04-05/marantz-pmd660-portable-recording-device

I seriously recommend you read both of these PMD660 before dropping some $$$ on the device and a large CompactFlash card to go with it. Yes, I have sent this feedback to Marantz engineering and they did respond with 'yes we hear that whine too' when using the built in omni mics. But no comment on when or how they will fix this - now that I already on it. So, don't be in a hurry. Read Doug Kaye's review for a pro audio perspective. Tom Parish Austin TX

That post was made in 2005. I would guess the poster has moved on now.

Did you try eBay?

Mark

Dear Charles

Your CNET posting about the Edirol R-1 is the first intelligent and convincing review of this product I've seen. Thanks a lot.

The R-1 sounds ideal for my recording purposes too. However I am puzzled by what seem to be some grey areas. Any views would be very welcome.

1. Edirol's press release and the downloadable product manual do not specify the R-1's compatibility with different AC voltages (100-120, 220-240). For a portable recorder, this is a strange omission -- the feature is important to know.

2. The R-1 costs $400 or more in the US, compared to an RRP of $375 in Japan. The user then needs to buy one or more Compact Flash cards, which are also not cheap. Is there some good reason why the R-1 cannot have an on-board hard disk?

3. The R-1 offers "digital out" but not "digital in". Any good reason?

4. An external mic can be used, but only via a mini-jack interface. Am I right to think that this is not ideal for professional-quality mics?

5. Users are obviously expected to download their recordings into a computer, so as to free up space on their SF card for more recordings. That being so, what exactly is the benefit of so many different recording-quality levels and multiple effects IN the recorder? Users are virtually certain to have some or all of those conversion facilities already, in their audio editing software.

6. A note on page 29 of the R-1's downloadable manual states: "Since the R-1 does not contain an internal clock, all files will have a creation date of 1 January, 2002." 2002? Is there anything problematic about including an internal clock?

In other respects, the R-1 sounds excellent. I am far from wanting to be negative about it, and would be only too glad to have my doubts dispelled.

Sincerely,

Angus Waycott

As a new owner of an R1 (and that in and of itself was an adventure), I'd like to comment on a couple points....

I am frankly glad that the R1 does not have a hard drive. Because it records directly to compact flash, it is therefore totally silent and draws less power.

I see no need for a digital input.... the R1 is supposed to be a recorder of original material. If you already have a digital recording, why transfer it to the R1? And if you really want it on the R1, use the USB cable or an adapter that allows you to plug the CF card into the computer.

No, the 3.5mm jack is not ideal for pro mics. But the R1 would have to be a lot larger if it contained XLR connectors. If I want to use XLR mics, I'll just use a small adapter cable.

The ability to select the various quality levels is so that you can select the best level possible based on available space for the original recording. With compressed recording formats like MP3, any time you manipulate the recording (like to change the quality level), you degrade the recording. Better to record it at the best level possible from the beginning.... again, based on available space.

My initial impression of the R1 is that it sounds great and is (so far) the best solution out there for a small high quality portable recorder. However, it seems to me that a lot of what you are paying for are silly bells and whistles (like reverb) that you will never use. All I want is a recorder. The rest of the processing I might want to do is much better done after the recording is transfereed to a computer or audio workstation.

I have yet to do a real battery life test, but I did measure the current consumption in various modes. Mine draws about 350 mA in record, about 250 mA in play or record - standby, and 100 mA in sleep mode. The backlight current is negligable. For field use, I am probably going to use a couple pairs of those 15 minute rechargeable NiMh cells, and pack a pair of AA alkalines as backup. I would like to see lower current drain, but all in all, it isn't that bad.

I do not mind the lack of absolute level indication. For my use, anyway, the simple bar graph is fine.... justt set the level so that peak level is a couple bars left of full deflection and it is fine. You can always turn on the limiter, but that causes pumping on the occasional peak.

I found it a bit bigger than I expected. I was hoping it was shirt pocket size, but it is a bit big for that. A bit bigger than my minidisc recorder, in fact.

All in all, I like it and will be using it extensively in the field.

Paul
paul at pgoelz dot com

The following site has what sounds like well-informed user info on the Marantz PMD660.

http://transom.org/tools/recording_interviewing/200503.pmd660.html

As I promised earlier I did some evaluation test to the edirol r1 concerning distortion levels and frequency response ,I was realy surprised by the good results received ,the measurement of the thd was done
with and sr780 fft spectrum analizer with the help of the internal frequency generator .
In all the tests the input and output wave was monitored with a digital scope.
using the wavelab 4,I made an 1khz 16 bits
44.1khz -3db amplitude file and uploaded directly to the memory card via the usb link to the r1
1, I measured the distortion ( 2nd and 3rd harmonic) in playback mode and the result amazing 0.01% !!!!
2_ I recorded via the line imput an 1 khz signal with an amplitude of all recording bars less one.
the record/playback with an output signal of 1.5v ptp
was 0.035% !!!! (less than the pmd660)
3 the samne signal was injected at the mic input
to reach all record bars less one ,the result 0,04%
4 the frequency response was done recording various
frequencies from 20hrz to 20khz ,at 20hz -0.2db flat to 20khz with a drop of -1.1db !!!!
is amazing how good is this machine
when checking the frequency response i put also 5hrz
it was replayed without distortion with a moderate attenuation

I would just like to start with saying how impressed I am with Charles and his helpful and lenghty notes of the Edirol R-1....

I am doing a project recording spaces and rooms at night, and am looking for a portable digital solution - so the R-1 looks pretty ideal [still big]

Does anyone have any experience with what the quality of hiss is like, or the lack of it hopefully by recording with the inbuilt mics and with an outboard mic/line in option....

how much noise does the unit make when it records silence, empty space....

I saw and listened to the useful recordings made using MP3 192khz compression, but what is it like at 16Bit 44.1Khz?

could anyone post a short recording of nothing somehow....

many thanks

Janek@audiOh.com
Sound Artist, London

I received my Edirol R1 last week, and am pretty happy with it so far... except for one thing. For some reason, I'm getting 16 to 30hz -56 to -49db noise (with about a 12khz 15db signal riding on top) when I bring any file (mp3 or wav) produced by the Edirol into an audio editor (I'm using Sound Forge 7.0). I can hear it with Winamp, Windows media player, Real Player, or any other audio player I can think of. For some reason, though, if I play the file using the Edirol (i.e., play audio directly from the phones output with effects disabled) this noise is not present. Put another way, I get less noise when I make a 2nd generation analog recording into my computer from the Edirol's phones output than I get when I transfer the 1st generation file directly from the Edirol's compact flash into my computer. Anyone know why this is the case?

Thanks!

Greetings and thank you for your clarity on the R1.
I'd like to get yur opinion on this if you don't mind.
I am a touring singer/songwriter looking to record my next CD from live shows.
What I'm hoping to do is get a simple line out from the mixer to the R1 and go left with my voice and right with guitar (or vice versa) effectively giving me two clean channels that could be mixed down in the studio. (I'm not sure that this is going to be that easy).
I'm a bit concerned about being on the road and not knowing how to download the info from the last gig. The memory cards are too expensive. I don't want to travel with a laptop...too much gear already.
I'm hearing great things about the R1 so I'd like to utilize it. Any ideas?
Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Best,
Steve Walters

first up, thanks for the useful review information. i record dj sets professionally and really need a solid piece of portable yet rugged gear to handle the load.

i do have one question...

is it possible to change the levels while the unit is recording? make adjustments on the fly, as it were. many times the levels change as the night goes on and i need to drop them a touch if i do not have a limiter handy.

thanks.

You might want to test your battery under load if you haven't already. You may find the voltage drops a bit. Look at the rating on the AC adapter, and try testing the voltage on the battery at that load (probably around 3/4 amp if it only gets 2hrs on a single AA).

Running at 3.6V PROBABLY won't hurt the device. The electronics should be able to handle the higher voltage if they were designed right. It may run a bit hotter, but you most likely won't notice the difference. Adding a diode in series would lower the voltage a bit. Ask the guy at Radio Shack for one with a 0.4 - 0.6V forward voltage that can handle at least 1 amp.

A simpler solution is to create an external battery pack with 2 D-cell batteries. You can buy a battery holder for a couple bucks, and wire it up to a plug that will fit the external power connection.

http://www.thomas-distributing.com/battery-holders.htm

The D-cells have about 5 times the life of AAs. AAAs, AAs, C-cells and D-cells all have the same voltage (1.5V). The only difference is size and capacity.

Most digital devices are designed to cut off before the battery gets to 1V, so there's never any danger from undervoltage.

You might want to test out what the cutoff voltage is on the external power input. NiMH cells generally run at 1.2V for most of their discharge cycle, and if the external input is expecting a 3V source, you might have trouble with running it at 2.4V.

If the cutoff is higher than 2.4V, you might have to wire the pack directly to the battery terminals on the device instead.

If you use alkaline batteries, they should start at 1.5V and are considered "dead" at around 0.8V. So if you use these, you may find that when the R1 stops working, you have only drained part of the life from your D-cells, and can use them for other things. I'd try this out before you plunk down the dough for rechargeables. Just measure the voltage on the alkalines after the R1 says the batteries are dead. If it is 2.2V or less, you should be OK to use rechargeables through the external power input.

Charles,

Thanks for the most informative article on the Edirol! I want to buy one soon. I wonder if you can help me? I want to recorder my band and then upload the file into Apple GarageBand, which I think only accepts aiff files. How can I change the Edirol`s MP3 or WAV file into aiff in order get it into GarageBand? Thanks, Ted