Networking & wireless forum: How can I share data files with someone in a different location?

There is a ground-swell for Dropbox -- so that option is well covered. However, you also asked if you could repurpose a desktop as a server. The answer to that is easily! You could use almost any computer you have laying around. If you have any friends with any Linux savvy at all, have them set it up for you. If I were in your office and you handed me an extra computer that had Windows on it, I'd have the hard-drive wiped and the machine serving files within an hour (faster than you can install Windows off a CD). The Linux world is wonderful and is designed around networking.... and you don't need to buy "Linux Server" ... linux boxes are all servers if you want them to be. The only program you need to add to your standard linux distribution is called "openssh" or just "ssh". It is free of course and takes about 60 seconds to install. Once you had such a machine, you could use WinSCP or Filezilla or some other freeware program to move files back and forth between that server and your Windows computers. Windows does not mind connecting to a Linux box, whether in your office or on the other side of the world ... in fact, if you go in over a network it does not even know what is in the other end (that's just part of what's built into networking).

Unlike some of the other proposed solutions, this one is secure. Your fileserver would not be open to the world. You would be logging in to your own account and if your password is good no one else is going to get in. You could make your files read only (for your colleague) and read/write for yourself. So you get to change them, and your buddy can't. Of course he could keep a separate copy under his own account ... or you could set them up so either of you could modify them. I have been Windows-free in my business and personal life for six years, and I just keep getting more productive. This solution has a learning curve, but it pays dividends (if you are that kind of person). Alternately, hire a consultant ... like me. You could have a custom system that did just what you wanted in very
little time and is virtually maintenance free.

I read about Pogo-plug in Linux Journal. It is supposed to work very well and bypasses all that "learn some Linux" stuff I just mentioned. I would not be afraid of trying that. It's so inexpensive it would be hard to go wrong.

All this stuff you are reading about "the cloud" ... it's all just Linux doing what it does. You can either rent the service from someone else, or set it up yourself.

There are a number of ways you can share files between two people, you can do it through a file server but this isn't always 100% necessary.

First one is e-mailing back and to, as you are currently doing, this is the easiest way of sharing files, it doesn't require you to set anything up and you can just fling stuff back and to all the time at each other but of course you have the problem that every time your business partner wants that file he needs to call you up or e-mail you and ask you for it and then you send it him and that can get a bit of a nightmare.

Another way is to use a system like GoToMyPC, ShowMyPC, LogMeIn or any of the other similarly named applications.

http://showmypc.com/transfer-files-using-showmypc.html

These allow you to create a network connection between your PC and the other persons computer and then the other person can see your PC screen, and any drives you've shared with ShowMyPC.

This again is quite simple, most routers and firewalls are set up to allow these applications through and easily share documents.

The only issue with ShowMyPC is the fact that the other user can also see exactly what you've got on screen and control your computer, there are security checks in place which advise you when this is happening, such as a password and a notification to tell you that the person is looking at your PC (plus also the mouse can start to move on it's own!), but obviously you have to take this into account when using this and ensure that either you can fully trust the person at the other end or you ensure your monitoring what they are doing and protect or hide confidential documents and information you don't want them to see.

Then you can also set up your own FTP server. FileZilla Server will create an FTP server on any Windows based PC (and Linux has it's own version as well).

Using FileZilla Server turns your standard PC into an FTP server (it doesn't require anything like Windows Server or Linux to run, just a standard Windows system works fine).

Filezilla Server works perfectly if both computers are on the same network (on the same router), however if you want to access it through the internet it then gets a little more complicated.

To set up on an local network you just need to install Filezilla Server and then set the directory you want to use as the root and create users and what permissions you give to your users (for example read only, read/write, etc) and whether or not you allow anonymous logging in (normally on a FTP server with private documents on it you wouldn't).

From then on any PC that retrieves it's IP address from the same DHCP server as the computer (DHCP server is normally on the router) can access that computers FTP server by typing into any Windows Explorer window ftp://<ip address or domain name of PC>

To find the IP address of the PC just click start and in the search box type CMD and press enter (on XP click Run... and then type CMD). A black box will appear with all text in it, then just type ipconfig and press enter, a load of text will be on screen and it will amongst that will be ip addresses for your PC normally starting either 192.168.x.x or 10.x.x.x so if your PC has an IP address of 192.168.1.2 then just type ftp://192.168.1.2 and that will access that computer, you can also use the computer name for example if your computer was called maryceleste you could type ftp://maryceleste and then you will see the FTP site.

This of course does all rely on you having the FTP set up on both the router and your PC right, if you find it will only work on the main PC and no others try disabling the firewall for a minute or two and seeing if that makes a difference, if it does then you know the firewall needs to be set up right.

Now as for accessing this method from a computer connected to the outside world - this can be a lot more tricky and is best if you really know what you are doing.

Firstly you need to set your computer up with a static IP address (if your router has DHCP reservation you can use this to reserve a specific IP address for your computer).

Then you need to forward anything going to the FTP port (normally 21) to your computers IP address (using port forwarding options on the router).

Then you need to find out what your routers ip address is for the internet, this is the WAN IP not the LAN IP and whether or not your ISP gives you a static or dynamic IP address. If they give you a static IP that's good, as long as you have all your firewall software set up right and port forwarding set up you should be able to access your FTP site from anywhere in the world just by typing in your routers WAN IP address. If it's dynamic you will need to use a service like DynDNS to turn your dynamic IP address into a static one (or ask your ISP for a static IP address). Then using the IP address they provide you can access your FTP from anywhere in the world.

Another alternative to this is instead of messing around setting your router up and IP address up is to buy some webhosting and use the FTP connection supplied with that as an FTP drive, of course you need to make sure that the folder you create isn't visible to people using http.

There is also cloud based hosting, such as Google documents, this doesn't need much setting up just a google account and then upload all your documents to it. You can then edit your documents through your web browser with Google.

Some other methods that could be used are things like VNC (this shows the PC screen on the other persons computer, like ShowMyPC, but it does need the router setting up the same way FTP server does.)

You could use your own server, but again you would need to set that your router up to forward the ports to it, and the same for a NAS drive.

The simplest method if your not too technical is to use a service like ShowMyPC or LogMeIn, or use Cloud based document hosting as all the set up is already done for you.

I'm surprised no one has mentioned Microsoft's SkyDrive. I have a Hotmail account, and use SkyDrive to read email attachments online instead of downloading them, and I also keep documents there to email. I have not collaborated on any since I am retired, but this is from the website:

Work together at the same time

You can work with other people on Word docs and Excel spreadsheets—all at the same time. As long as the file is stored on SkyDrive, you can see the changes people make in real time.

http://explore.live.com/skydrive-share-photos-files?T1=t4


I also use DropBox and love it. I have it on my laptop and iPhone, and share documents and pictures, as well as share them with family members on their laptops and iPhones in the shared folder.

Compare the 25 GB free online storage available through SkyDrive with the overly highly praised 2 GB free online storage available through Dropbox. You can't do much with 2 GB and prices go up fast from there. I frequently post 50 to 75 high resolution photos to Skydrive for family members. You simply cannot do that with Dropbox free version.

You've already read of Dropbox, Pogo, and some others. I would (also) highly recommend SkyDrive-I believe it offers 25GB free. There is also-4Shared, ADrive, BoxNet, Send This File, Carbonite, and a multitude of others,

I share common files (in a folder) with a few people around the country using Windows Live Mesh by Microsoft, It works similiar to dropbox.
Once a folder is set up for the files that you want to share Live Mesh will keep them synced on both machines as long as they both have Live Mesh running. It is a free download from Microsoft.

George

I love this program. I used Windows Live Sync for years, when it existed and supported XP. I kept 2 work computers, one home computer and one laptop with all the same files via sync. The entire program rolled into Windows Live Mesh, but only works with Windows 7. I actually upgraded all my computers to Windows 7 last year just to continue to use this program. It is much easier to use than dropbox and others mentioned, plus it is free, plus it is not limited by a certain GB limit, just the size of your hard drive.

You might consider Spideroak (http://www.spideroak.com), which has the advantage of allowing you to structure your data the way you want, and also keeps all versions in perpetuity. Unlike Dropbox, SpiderOak doesn't know the encryption key so nobody but you and your partner will ever be able to read the files. Since you are in a business, pay the $100 a year to get 100GB of storage, then you and your partner use the same account, and then make sure the folders with the business files are selected for backup. While Spideroak also has a sharing feature, you would only do this if you were only sharing a few files with somebody rather than actively collaborating on documents. SpiderOak never forgets a document, as files deleted from a computer are available from a deleted files link in SpiderOak until you decide to purge them.

And, if you aren't doing so already, pay for online backups for both computers. I use Backblaze (http://www.backblaze.com), which backs up unlimited amounts of data for $50 a year, and you can set your files to be encrypted so that nobody but you can access them.

See my other post or go read Dropbox's terms of Service. He wants this for business documents which may need to be kept confidential.

The are a multitude of ways to share files both with someone in the same office or in another corner of the world. Dropbox is probably the most popular(at the moment) and is usable across virtually any device including smart phones, tablets, netbooks, PC's and Mac's. I have well over 100 clients that use Dropbox for both personal and business needs and have had zero issues. However there are many other similar services available with all kinds of features. There are some key factors that can help dictate which type of service best meets your needs:

AMOUNT OF DATA - One key factor is the quantity of data that you need to share? You mentioned that cost was a big issue. There are several services that offer free accounts for 2GB to as much as 25GB but if you are looking at sharing larger amounts of data, than you will have to pay. For example: Dropbox offers a 2GB account for Free, 50GB account for $9.99 per month and a 100GB account for $19.99 per month.

ONLINE STORAGE vs. SYNCRONIZED STORAGE - Some services store your files in the cloud and you work on them remotely or download them as you need them. Other services such as Dropbox Store your files in the cloud but also store a copy on your computer and then synchronize them whenever you make a change or add a file. The advantage of this is that you have access to all your files at all times even if you do not have an internet connection and if you make changes or additions, they will simply synchronize to the cloud and onto other users the next time your internet connection is restored.

COST - There are some rather costly programs that tend to offer many more features such as additional storage, increased security and give you greater ability to control who sees what and who can edit or delete files. For example: Dropbox offers "Dropbox for Teams" which starts at $795 per year for 5 users which caters more to business users.

NO INTERNET - One big issue is whether or not you need to have access to files when you are away from an internet connection or at times when your internet connection happens to be down.

COMPATIBILITY - Double check system compatibility with the operating system that you plan to use. Some of the services require Windows Vista or Windows 7 and do not work with Windows XP or older operating systems. I ran into this problem myself when I wanted to use an old Windows 2000 Test machine. But I found that Dropbox works fine on it too. Some system may require that you upgrade all of your equipment before you can get them to work. In some cases this could cost you some big dollars. For example: iCloud requires that you update your iPhone and iPad to the latest iOS and your Mac must be running OSX 10.7 (Lion). If you are using it with a PC too, then you need to have Windows Vista or Windows 7 and Outlook 2007 or 2010. So if you are running Windows XP with Office 2003, you have some major updating to perform.

FILE SIZE - The general size of the files that you work on can greatly affect what kind of service might work best for you. If most of your data is made up of relatively small files (a few megabytes or less each) such as word documents and Excel spread sheets than the type of service probably does not matter. But if you have the need to share large files such as video or huge raw image files than online storage may be too slow for you. It can take a long time to access and load some of these files due to the speed of the internet. In this case it would be best to have the files local to all machines and then synchronize them later.

ONLINE vs. YOUR OWN HARDWARE - If you simply do not like the idea of someone else having your data, you can always opt for setting up you own File Server. If you are handy or know someone who is, you could convert and old computer to a Linux File server or simply purchase a NAS (Network Attached Storage) box. Many of these NAS devices offer methods to share files with others over the internet. I had good luck with some of the units from Synology and not much luck with some from Buffalo. NOTE: Keep in mind that having your own system will probably require that you have it on 24/7, you will need to consider some form of backup for it, and you still need to be concerned about security. Also, in some cases, especially if you opt for a Server of some kind, the power consumption alone could end up costing more than some of the online services.

SECURITY -Most file sharing systems use some form of data encryption but access to your files is still pretty much based on a Username and Password. I always recommend making this password difficult to guess by using at least 8 characters with a minimum of 1 uppercase letter and 1 number. Never use common words that can be found in the dictionary for a password. I also highly recommend using additional password protection that Word and Excel offer when storing really sensitive files such as Personnel files and or other files that may contain things like Social Security numbers, account numbers and passwords. I do this even for files that are not stored in the cloud. For Example: I have a 3 page Excel Spreadsheet that contains all my account numbers, usernames and passwords for pretty much everything in my life. If this were to get into the wrong hands, it would be an absolute nightmare. It is stored on my computer as well as in Dropbox so that I can access it from all my computers and devices as well as a backup is saved on Carbonite. Some people would say that it is crazy to store that on your computer, but I say, what is the point of having all this technology if you are not going to use it? If I am traveling and lose my wallet, I can go to any computer in the world and access Dropbox to get all the phone numbers and account numbers so that I can call and cancel my cards. I don't know about you, but if I were to lose my cell phone, I am not sure if I could even remember my own home phone number anymore. Again I can go to Dropbox from anywhere and access my list of addresses and phone numbers. These files are important to me and having access to them is equally important. But I also want to store them as safely as possible. So one method is to password protect these individual files using additional password security built into Word and Excel. This way if someone happens to get your files in the cloud or from your lost or stolen laptop or even some form of virus then those important files have a second line of defense. If you are still really paranoid about security, you could always use a 3rd party encryption program like BoxCryptor to encrypt your files before storing them in the cloud.

ONLINE FILE SHARING ALTERNATIVES - here are just a few of the many online services that are available:

DropBox -- http://www.dropbox.com/
Box.net -- http://www.box.com/
iCloud -- http://www.apple.com/icloud/what-is.html
Google Docs -- http://www.google.com/apps/intl/en/business/docs.html
Amazon Cloud Drive -- https://www.amazon.com/clouddrive/learnmore
Windows Live Mesh (SkyDrive) -- http://explore.live.com/skydrive
Microsoft Office 365 -- http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/office365/online-software.aspx#fbid=_M_l604G-Zo
SugarSync -- https://www.sugarsync.com/tour/
SpiderOak -- https://spideroak.com/


If you want to read more about some of these services and compare features here are a few links you may find helpful.
http://www.informationweek.com/news/storage/reviews/231000787
http://lifehacker.com/5818908/dropbox-vs-the-alternatives-which-online-syncing-service-is-right-for-you

http://www.techdrivein.com/2011/07/5-more-dropbox-alternatives-recommended.html


Dana
Wayland Computer

Message was edited by Lee Koo (ADMIN) to add links 03/02/2012 3:16PM

After reading many of the posts here I see there are many concerns over security of documents stored in the cloud and I would like to expand on this a little further.

First, Security of you data should always be a concern whether you use cloud storage or not and I would not treat one any differently than the other. If you have any data that you would not want to lose or see on facebook or youtube then you should take extra steps to protect it whether you are storing it on your computer, on a server, on a NAS device or in the cloud. If your data is subject to HIPPA or other regulations, then you also need to further protect this data. Use your own password protection and Encryption.

If I look at the AVERAGE computer user, who typically does not have a lot of technical knowhow, their data is probably a lot safer in the cloud than it is on their own computer. These users are typically the ones that let their Antivirus software expire, did not setup their wireless router correctly, do not know how to implement a firewall and probably do not have any backup system in place or if they do there is a good chance that it is either not working correctly or stopped worked years ago. They are also the ones that have had their AOL, Gmail or Yahoo accounts compromised because of a weak password. I don't say this because I want to put anyone down but rather to prove a point. Say what you want, but their data is probably saver in the cloud.

Having personally well over 10,000 service calls under my belt, to date, I do not know of a single person that has lost or had data stored in the cloud compromised, YET... (not including email accounts). But I have had plenty of people lose documents stored on their computer because of a hard drive failure or by simply deleting them by mistake. I have many others lose or have stolen their entire laptop, iPad or smart Phone and I have had numerous NAS devices fail (especially Buffalo drives) as well as plenty of External USB drives go bad

If you take the time to create secure passwords (and change them often), setup multiple working backup systems, and implement additional encryption or password protection for sensitive data, then I really see no reason for concern.

Yes anyone of these companies could go belly up in the morning but so could your computer, that is what backups are for.

Dana
Wayland Computer

Just because you use something for BUSINESS does not necessarily mean that the information is anymore sensitive than someone's personal information. I see plenty of BUSINESS data that is pure junk.
But, that is exactly why I said that if you have sensitive information that you did not want anyone to see, then simply encrypt the data before saving it. No one can see, view or read it but you. This should be done whether or not you use any form of Cloud storage. This is also why I typically don't recommend Google Docs because there is no way that I know of to add your own protection to the items saved there. If you encrypt the your Dropbox data then my understanding is that it is HIPA compliant but if anyone has information to the contrary, please by all means let us know.

Dana

I guess I did not explain my point very well. I deal primarily with private clients as well as small businesses of 10 or less employees as well as a whole lot of in-home businesses and there is a big difference between what should be and reality. For the most part, they do not have the IT staff, Personnel, funds or the know-how to implement security of any kind. I walk into small offices all the time that have ZERO security, No Backup, Expired Antivirus and no encryption on their wireless network. They may also drop off unprotected computers and laptops to any old Geek at any store for service. My point was that in many cases their data was probably more likely to lost or stolen in their own office or home then if it were with someone like DropBox. Is this good? NO! Does it meet the requirements of any Privacy law? NO! Is a service like DropBox or Google perfectly safe? NO! Which again is why I recommend encrypting your own data before saving it anywhere. I agree, that even though Services like Dropbox claim to encrypt the data, they also hold the key. Which is why I would recommend that if you have sensitive data, then you should encrypt your whole DropBox folder yourself. I am not disagreeing with you at all...

It could be anyone if some kid working as a system administrator at dropbox gets bored and finds your upload. Or Google decides to send your uploads to a third party like an advertiser.

Read again - I mentioned TeamViewer!