Linux forum: Any Linux tablets, now or planned?

Bob, I know Android is based on Linux just as parts of Mac OS X are based on BSD, but Android isn't *really* Linux to me. Linux is all about freedom of choice for the user; Android, like Mac OS X, is a "walled garden" that puts limits on what the end user can do with either hardware or software. Put another way, Android is a form of embedded Linux for limited-function devices; the end user has little control over upgrading (or downgrading), choosing which features to include, where apps and data are stored, or how the desktop (palmtop?) looks-and-feels. With most tablets, the user can't even replace a bad battery.

The same argument applies to Chrome OS, as implemented on Chromebooks.

Maybe it's a matter of "you've got to crawl before you walk", and I need to be more patient. Linux tablets may be just around the corner and I just don't know it yet. Or maybe tablet PCs, currently a separate category, will become smaller, lighter and more energy efficient. Either way, the tablet I want is bound to come along sooner or later. Of course, by then I'll probably want something else.

Rooting a tablet in order to hack the OS voids the warranty, and is more work than most people want to do. I'm not asking vendors to change their existing tablet lines, nor do I insist that the entire industry offer alternatives to Android on any of their tablets. But I hope someone -- either an existing vendor or a new company -- will decide to make tablets that allow optionally running a Linux distro that isn't Android, without voiding the warranty. As I learn more about Android and realize that the source code is being shared with the Linux community at large, I find the need for an alternative Linux distro not really necessary, just desirable; I'm starting to see Android as basically a Linux distro that is tailored for a particular processor and architecture -- open-source, but necessarily limited in its functionality in order to fit a fixed hardware platform. So I suppose what I really want is an easy method of either replacing Android with an alternative distro or simply adding apps that aren't in the Android app store. Perhaps at some point a tablet vendor will introduce a second, slightly more expensive, tablet line with this capability. And even I may decide that isn't important as Android matures.

As for the other items on my wish list, most of them hardware-based, I'm sure they will all be addressed as standards develop within the tablet industry. Small-screen tablets that put a premium on light weight probably won't offer USB ports or keyboard/expansion docks, but I'm hoping they will become standard on larger-screened tablets. If I'm going to carry a tablet, it's probably going to have a screen size around 10 inches; and if I'm carrying something that size, I can certainly also take along a small/folding keyboard that easily fits in the glove box or suitcase, but when unfolded props the tablet at a comfortable viewing angle.

Equip the keyboard dock with a couple of USB ports, a power supply/charger and maybe a USB-to Ethernet dongle for configuring WiFi routers (most require logging in from a wired connection), and many people will need nothing more for home and travel use. I might even have two docks -- a highly portable keyboard-only version for travel, and one with more features sitting permanently on a desk at home. While I will keep my desktop and notebook computers for the foreseeable future, I can see going to Starbucks with nothing more than a tablet, and even taking short pleasure trips with a keyboard dock in my overnight bag.

Since the Android dev tools are free too, the claim must have been created by marketing.

Very strange page.
Bob

of any Android forks yet. So we might need to wait for this to happen sometime in the future.

The problem with Linux (Open Source) and the rest; Apple, MS and the rest (Close Source) is their strength and also their weaknesses.

Open Source

Pro
Free of ties to be creative and expand innovation

Con
Fragmented and create the problem that my way is better than yours.

Close Source
Pro
Better control of the software and ensure reliability

Con
Hinder Innovation, License/Patents/Control Wars, Inflexible, Higher Cost to maintain, support and deploy.


I think what Google needs to do is what Mandriva does. It has a Quasi "Close" Source and is called the Power Pack to pay for License and Copyright Fees and a Free Version with all Open Source.

Google owns Android but does not own Linux. Google can do all they want to Android since is their product the same way Red Hat, SuSE, Mandriva and the other distro does. However, that does not prevent for a group of developers to Fork Android to be used on Tables. The same way, Mandriva is a Fork of Red Hat and Mageia, PCLOS is a Fork of Mandriva.

I am surprised that nobody have not done it yet.

I'd really like a Linux tablet too - note that by this I don't mean Android or Chrome, but I'm talking about a set of software that you'd find in a regular Linux desktop distribution.

Linux desktop software isn't very touch-friendly at the moment, but I think there's ways around it.

doh buy windows and put them to trash same day. Not very nice plan.

p.s. today i noticed:
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13924_3-20088439-64/$199-asus-x101-targets-linux-tablet-alternative/

Cost of Windows is NOT minimal in those machines.
Samsung galaxy tab price is 300$ cheapest windows tablet 450$. So windows price is 150$ or more and you suggest to buy thing for 150$ and dump it into trash bin near shop.

>I wonder if you knew that and didn't go to OEM Microsoft meetings where you learn how much a license costs.
Oh no it whould be waste of time, I just include extra hardware cost I will need to run windows into windows price.
And I will need to pay at least 150$ more to run windows instead of Linux.
Also I should include patent troll fees I will have to pay to microsoft no matter if I buy their product or their competitors product so it would be 200$ or more for windows.

>As most folk can't put Linux on an ARM based machine what amount of cost
do you add for them to develop and put a custom kernel onto said
machine.
There is no need to develop it Linux works on ARM already.

>There is a reason to pick the units that run Windows. It's because you can pick up almost any distro of Linux and install that.
No there is no reason at all to buy extra hardware and not use it in same way as there is no reason to buy software and not use it.

>Given your move to lesser hardware what sort of freedom is this?
Freedom to use that hardware for what you need not just read few pages of rules agree to them all with no exceptions and ONLY then use hardware.

I assume Linux cost 0$, of course it is not 0, but this simplifies calculation and makes windows look even cheaper.

>Many folk don't read the fine print on that area. And the cost of
Windows is minimal in those machines. So little that folk get uppity
when the Linux laptops cost the same.<

Agreed, Bob. Computer makers pay much less for Windows than individuals, and the bigger the vendor, the more leverage they have to improve the deal ... although in the past Microsoft has been known to favor some big vendors over others.

I'm sure at least some vendors factor in a Windows installation charge into the price of their machines, and that charge probably has a relatively small amount of profit built into it. Not enough to make a big difference in the per-machine cost, but it adds up as they sell more computers.

Redesigning a tablet to take full advantage of Windows would add to the total cost too, of course, although I don't know if it would be more or less than the cost of Windows itself. Such redesign would almost certainly add to the weight and thickness too. Eventually we may see tablets divide into two subcategories: the current thin-and-light versions; and chunkier, more full-featured devices that will essentially supplant the current tablet PCs and may or may not run Windows.

As for Windows itself on tablets (and smartphones), I have said elsewhere that I think Microsoft should re-think its current strategy. Apple didn't redesign Mac OS, it came up with IOS -- yes, it has a similar look, but it is less functional and has a name that separates it from the company's "computer" operating system. Microsoft's Windows 8 may actually come in separate versions for PCs and other devices, but as I understand it the company is redesigning the interface so computers will look like tablets and phones. That sounds to me a little like "dumbing down" the Windows interface, and not at all necessary; Windows PC users already use non-Windows tablets and phones easily enough, and I think they could do the same on those devices with a well-designed Microsoft OS that isn't Windows. (I would want apps that let me review word-processing documents and spreadsheets on a phone or tablet, and make minor revisions; but actually generating a long document or spreadsheet on such small devices would be painful.)

As for the point of my thread-starter post, I have done additional homework and now accept that Android is more configurable than I thought at first. And recently released or announce Android devices have the connectivity and memory-expansion options I want. I'm still bothered that the hardware vendors still decide which Android versions users get -- and when they get them -- but I'll chalk that up to hardware limitations in first-generation Android devices, which will largely disappear as the smartphone and tablet platforms mature. I'd still like to see Linux (beyond just Android) in the game, though; competition is almost always a good thing for both the industry and consumers.

You really tried to prove that 300$ =450$ with this post?

But more per unit, no way. Small computer builders buy the OEM version of Windows, which costs a lot less than the retail version. Larger builders get still better deals, including in many cases a site license to reproduce restore/reinstall discs or partitions. Yes, they pay a lot of money to Microsoft, but that expense is divided among all the computers they build and sell.

When vendors are licensed to reproduce their own restore/reinstall discs, they don't have to pay Microsoft for physical media and are free to make their own deals with disc pressers. They also get to install their own choice of add-on software ("crapware"), which generates more revenue from the publishers who pay them to include their programs. And when a vendor just puts all this on a separate partition instead of providing a physical disc, they save even more.

all android os is designed based on the linux kernel only .and android code is also pulled out from linux kernel only,so the ideal OS for tablet based on Linux is elive distribuation