Windows XP forum: Defrag Or Not !!

It's not really necessary to do anymore, but it makes some people feel better. The performance bottleneck on most systems is the HDD, but modern HDDs are already about as fast as they can be made, so we're stuck waiting for solid state storage to come of age.

On much older drives, like from the Pentium days and before (pre-EIDE), you might get some benefit out of defragmenting. Also on low RPM drives like are commonly found in laptops, there might be some small benefit to battery life that would make it worthwhile. On desktops though, it's really just a time wasting activity.

You'll get a lot more performance benefit out of buying a HDD with an 8MB or 16MB cache in it than you ever would from defragmenting.

Thanks for your imput, Have a good day Christine

Thanks for your quick response, yes i thought pretty much the same as you,but I thought that it wouldn't hurt to get a bit of feedback, I guess people get a bit set in their ways, and keep doing as they have always done , thanks have a good day Christine

Thanks to every one who took the time to respond to this post, I havn't checked post for the last week from post 26. I thought this post had run its course. I will read what everyone has written and get back to you accordingly but thanks so much,have a good day everyone Christine

The advice the "The Almighty One" gave Christine is ludicrous at best and totally inaccurate. If you do not know what you are taling about Almighty one you should not be giving false advise and doing a disservice to a person who needs help. You are either intellectually dishonest or ignorent or both.

Anyone who does not defragment religiously and do other routine maintenance on their computer is asking fore serious trouble.

I suggest that you log on to www.diskeeper.com for information on the best defragmenting software and excellent technical support.

For information on defragmenting log onto www.diskeeper.com/paper

Christine, I am going to e-mail you detailed instructions on Defragmenting, Deleting Cookies, Temp, and Temporary Internet Files to Keep a PC-Computer using Windows XP Running Smoothely.

Dr. Arthur Billy

If you are surfing the net, you are still downing loading stuff even if you are not doing anything yourself. Remember, your computer uses COOKIES when your surfing the internet. These Cookies from the various websites that your go to are loaded on to your harddrive. Also if you look in your computer under "temp internet files" or it might even be called something else, any way in this file, there are pictures saved from the various websites that you go to. look when you go to a site for the first time, depending on your internet connection (DSL, CABLE, DIAL-UP) the first time you go it might take a little bit to load the full page. But if you go back, and if nothing had changed since the last time you were there, then it will load faster, BECAUSE the picture and everthing else is loaded onto your computer. And this takes up space on your hard-drive. And so even if you do not download anything yourself, your computer is as part of the fuction.

What is fragmentation and defragmentation?
When data is written to the hard drive, it is done so based on the space available. If a space is spotted, it will be filled by the data from the file. If the space was not large enough to accommodate the entire file, the next available space will be filled with the remaining portion of the file. This continues until the entire file has been stored on the hard drive. Thus, a single file may be broken up into dozens of chunks and spread across the hard drive. As time goes on the chunks will grow smaller in size and greater in number, which is referred to as fragmentation.

Fragmentation is not a good thing, and can decrease the performance of your hard drive. The reason is that in order to open a file, it has to find the first part of the file, then the second, then the third, and so on until it has found all of the chunks to form the file as a single entity. This process takes time, resulting in delays when searching for, opening, modifying, and saving files.

A good analogy would be if you write a 20 page report. Page 1 you place on your desk, page 2 in your briefcase, page three on your keyboard, page 4 on your nightstand, etc. If you ever want to read the report, you have to run throughout your house collecting all of these pages. Wouldn't it be faster if they were all together, in order, in a single place? Of course, and that's what defragmenting does.

By defragmenting your hard drive, you are reorganizing all of those chunks of data, combining those that go together and putting them in an order where it's easier to find what you need, when you need it. By doing so you speed up the overall production of your hard drive, at least to a certain degree. (The degree of improvement corresponds to the level of fragmentation.)
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Does this vary by OS, or over time?
Now, those that say this isn't as important now are correct in some ways. The NTFS filing system, standard for those running Windows 2000/XP, is more efficient than the old FAT32, and doesn't become as fragmented as fast. However, it still happens, so you still need to defragment on occasion.

Another thing to consider is the size of the hard drive, the number of files, and the size of the files. The larger the hard drive the larger it will take, percentage wise, to become heavily fragmented. However, as the amount of stored files increases, the number of fragments also increases.

So, take two people who use their hard drives the same amount for the same types of activities. The one with a large hard drive will have to defragment less often because it takes longer for the fragmentation percentage to rise to a point where defragmentation is necessary. However, when he gets around to defragmenting it'll have to do more work because there are a greater number of fragments present. That's the difference between raw numbers and percentages.

Finally, Unix-based OSes seem almost invulnerable to fragmentation due to their design, so they don't have to worry about this sort of thing. For all of you Windows users, though, this should be a part of your regular system maintenance.
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Now, when should you defragment?
Well, if you launch the defragmenter, there is an Analyze option. It will survey your drive, determine the level of fragmentation, and advise you whether or not you should defragment at that time. This is a much more efficient way of deciding as opposed to the 'It's the first Sunday of the month' strategy. Remember, fragmentation varies based on the amount and type of usage, not necessarily how many days it's been.
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Which defragmenter should I use?
The standard Windows defragmenter should be fine. Others, such as Diskeeper, are more powerful, typically defragmenting faster, and at times with a slightly greater percentage of efficiency. They can also defragment in the background so that the level of fragmentation never rises above a certain point. It's easy to argue either side of this point, so I'll leave that decision up to you.

Also, as an FYI, the Windows defragmenter is actually an older, modified 'lite' version of Diskeeper. (A result of the Microsoft <-> Executive Software partnership.) Thus, by paying the $30+ you're simply getting the updated 'enhanced' version.
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Is this good for my system?
Yes and no. Every time you use your hard drive, no matter for what task, you're taking a little bit of life away from it...every bit of action wears it down to a very small degree. Thus, the defragmentation process does shorten the life span to a small extent. However, you need to compare this to the how much wear and tear would be put on by having to constantly search the drive for chunks of files.

Depending on your level of fragmentation, the defragmentation may or may not be of greater harm than good. That's why it's best to consult the Analyze function of the defragmenter. If it determines that your drive is heavily fragmented, then it's in your best interest to defragment. Otherwise, leave it alone.

Basically, it's like taking medication...it'll cure your ailments, but taking too much, or taking it when your not sick can cause more harm than good.
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Well, that was quite a mouthful! Congrats on reading to the end, and I hope that answers your questions. While some will take issue with various points, disputing the benefits of defragmentation, the above is the generally-held stance, and the one I believe in.

Hope this helps,
John

Have to wonder if we'll suffer the same consquences with Microsofts new OS.
Defrag doesn't bother me much other than accummulating time. I use DISKEEPER occassionaly and if I opt to use the programs "Set It and Forget It" and let it run in the background. But as always have to remember it does Hog Memory and can interupt Real-Time Game playing
when it randomly needs your input or Update and mess up game play. Several programs like Anti-Viruses will all of a sudden start running and interfere with online game play also.
There is no perfect OS on the market or that any supportive 3rd party program can alleviate the need to Defragment at this time. Maybe future Flash Memory or some other Data Storage method will do away with
Defrag.
I've heard of Perfect Disk recently but DisKeeper been around for awhile and works better than the "Lite"
aspect that MS incorporated as part of Windows.
To me AVISTA is the 64 Bit / LongHorn which MS had in works better than 5 years ago, so New is Not Actually New ...just another Dinosaur that is likely to have as many BUGS as all previous Windows Programs with the exception of Win2000 (has fewer of) and 98SE which Microsoft spent alot of time fixing.
As far as I can tell, Pros and Cons exist in everything. Just depends on individual needs if it more of an Advantage than a headache to deal with.

Hope there will be a topic about Defragmenting with
AVISTA down the road. I have the BETA Version but my
PC isn't up to date enough to use it.
Last Question? Have you used IE 7 (internet explorer 7)
I'm afraid to try it due to possible Security Flaws
and if I don't like it How to Reinstall IE6 .

BTY ...you did an Excellent job with "Defrag as needed"

I keep think of Arnold Swartzennagger in his Terminator
films.
VISTA and AVISTA and VISA seem all alike to me...
it's a crazy name for an OS would you think.
In typical Retail Stores they don't even sell the
latest AMD PC's . the +4200's +4600's and +4800's
and x64 etc: just not on the market.
To get High End PC's if ya can't build one of your own is to get one via ALIENWARE.
But who has $4k -$6K for new PC's which are still using Windows Media or WinXP.
Might as well wait as many things are either on hold or some kind of stand still. No one wants to jump the gun or get there feet wet till some guy High Up gives it the Green Light.
Keep up the good suggestions on CNET.
No single person has all the answers but with everyones heads put together will either derive to a conclusion or solution.

thanks for your response in kind.
Defragmentation is one of those things
that keeps your whole computer system up and running.
Try to leave room on your Hard Drive ( 20%) if you can
and once you analyze that the HDD is over 50% fragmented it's time to let either Windows Defrag or a program like DISKEEPER do its job.
Unfortunately, All Windows Operating programs
render many bugs of many types and needs consistant maintenance.
I doubt that the new Microsoft OS VISTA will be any better.
Wouldn't it be nice to run Windows strictly on One Partition of your HHD and that the Registry and all those Add-Ons and attachments plus new stuff would be written to a different partition or separate HDD.
Windows would stay clean for a very long time, all you would need to do is delete or reformat the section
that gone bad due to Spyware, Viruses, trojans etc:
An OS that is Free from outside penetration. Keep your programs safe and let the other garbage fill up till you had enough and send it packing to the dumpster.
I'm sure there will be plenty of chats concerning VISTA when it's released. In most part, many PC's sold in stores (Best Buy, CompUSA, Dell, Gateway ) are not selling 64 bit machines.
The only one that is , is the new Apple iMac 5.
But Apple doesn't use MS Windows unless you use that
alternative program that somehow allows you to run MS programs.
Hope everyones input/feedback helped along the lines
to make a decision about Defrag.
Good luck.

some other places of interest to assist on PC stuff.
check out these links ,if information you like then Add to your Favorites. (note u may need to cut and paste to your URL/Address bar).
With the Internet the World is an Open Book.
Have fun and again thanks for your compliment.

links or website listed below: 16 listed.
http://www.maximumpc.com/

http://www.pcmag.com/

http://www.pcpitstop.com/

http://www.pcworld.com/home/index/0,00.asp

http://www.zdnet.com/

http://www.broadbandreports.com/

http://www.basichardware.com/overclocking.html

http://www.pcworld.com/howto/article/0,aid,121773,pg,2,00.asp

http://forums.speedguide.net/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=54

http://www.aoaforums.com/forum/

http://www.majorgeeks.com/

http://www.pcnet-online.com/index.html

http://www.spywareguide.com/index.php

http://dvd.box.sk/

http://www.afterdawn.com/

http://www23.tomshardware.com/cpu_2004.html?modelx=33&model1=37&model2=37&chart=17

We always had the wrong idea about when to defragment.
After reading Mr. John Wilkinson reply about defragmentation, everybody in my family is rethinking and learning.
Thanks.

Dr. J. A. Jaar

I don't know why you confused, almost everyone here says the same thing, YES DEFRAG your computer. The only differance I have heard is why you should defrag. Some people say if you do not download stuff you do not need to defrag, or not as much. Then there are some that try to explain that even if you do not download you still need to defrag, because even thought you have not downloaded anything, as part of the computer operation sets, it does in fact down load some small infromation, and this information if kept on your PC will need to be defragged over time.

So I do not know what's confusing you. Everyone basicly said to defrag. Just go by that. You do not really need to know how it works or anything like that. Just know that defragging about once a month or as little as every six months should help your computer run a little better. As someone else said in this thread, "most people will not even notice the difference". Unless of course you have never had it done before, and your computer is a couple of years old.

For example, every once in awhile my mom will call me and say that her computer is running slow. So I go over to her place and the first thing I do is restart the computer to see how slow it is loading after a reboot. Then I defrag the hard drive. And then I restart it. And see if there is a difference, my mom is usually there for both restarts, if this helped, then she usually says something like see that's better now. If it did not help then the next thing I do is check for Spyware, and if I find some I remove it and then Defrag again.

And this is all I usually do with my moms computer, well other than updating her stuff with Windows Update page. But other than that, that is all I do. I set up her computer to do most of this stuff automaticly, but she does not remember to turn the computer on the day before so that is can run the defrag, and other maintainance programs. So I usually have to do this for her about ever 3 or 4 months.

As I said in another post here in this thread, if your want help with deciding if your drive needs Defragged or not go to www.pcpitstop.com and run the scan they have there. This is a good scan to make sure your computer is running in tip top shape. I have been using this site for over 5 years. and it does just about everything that you could want. It is a free scan, and it also give some helpful tips if problems are found on how to fix them. They do have some ads on there something to try and get your to buy someones program that does a little better job, but for what they do for free I do not use any of these other programs that they recommend. I usually ignore them, unless I see something interesting, and even then I just read about the product, I figure I do not need anything more then this site, my Norton Antivirus, and Norton SystemWorks, and the Anti-Spyware programs I have. With all these, I have never had a problem with my PC, and when family or friends call about problems with their PC's I go to www.pcpitstop.com and run this to make sure that there are no other problems...

So I hope this helps.

Oh, and I have IT training. I have an Associates of Science degree in Electronic Engineering Technology (for working on Electronics and Working on computer).

And I am over 3/4 of the way thru my Bachelors of Science degree in Electronics and Communications Engineering Technology (for working on Electronics, working on computers, and networks)

I was in the Military too!!! Maybe not for 26 years, but I am a service connected disabled veteran with over 11 years in. So I too have worked on high tech stuff more complex than PC too. I only went to college because I wanted to learn more about Computer, and YES. It does make me know more about computers, BECAUSE THE CLASS WAS ABOUT REPAIRING AND BUILDING AND PROGRANING, and also about setting up the nework. My Job in the military didn't have very much to do with computers. And so that is why I went to college after leaving the military because of my disbility...

Thankyou for all your posts regarding Defrag or not, I have read all and am a lot clearer now regarding defragmentation, I also am a bit of a download junkie, somthings a only on my computer for a very short trial period, where as others that i am impressed with stay untill there usefullness is gone, Thanks so much Have a great day, Christine