Speakeasy forum: The NRA makes an offer: NOTHING !!

with your figures, which is why I asked for a link, is that the percentages named lump together the three polls......wait times, restrictions on who can buy, and bans. I questioned, and still do, the high 70% of 70% of NRA members agreeing to bans. And yes, I did do a google search ahead of JP, and found the same liberal percentages that were listed in the various links within that article that JP provided....I'm talking links in the ARTICLE/story itself, not links all over the page. And I didn't come up with anything other than what you quoted from newsstories........which is why I am suspect about the polls all being lumped into one total.

As for asking for the link....there have been times when I've also 'heard' a story on television and posted it here without a link and you guys have reamed me a new one for not providing 'proof' of what I posted. I'm not letting you off the hook so easily with your excuse as to why you didn't. You could have just as easily done your own google search ahead of posting to verify your numbers. At least that's the same crap you give me when I don't provide a link, is it not?

common to the M-16 and other NATO assault weapons. I believe the other designation is 5.56 mm NATO for the round.

The AR-15 designed by Eugene Stoner was the origin of the M-16, based on the .223 Hornet cartridge though the military screwed up initial production by ignoring Stoner's recommendations, and also buy using a cartridge propellant prone to causing fouling which killed a lot of Americans in Viet Nam through weapon fouling and stoppage. I assume you know all this, because it is very, very common knowledge, not to say a scandal which was never admitted. Obviously this AR-15 was based on the original AR-15 which is an assault rifle.

You can't load a .223 cartridge into a .22 rifle, the bullet is too large for the bore, and the Cartridge is too fat and too long for the breech of a standard .22 rifle which uses a much smaller and less powerful round. The fact that the .223 cartridge uses about 6 times the propellant to drive the bullet is one of the reasons it is so devastating.

Rob.

Stoner used the .22 Hornet in the rifle he designed for USAF survival kits. Later, the military had Stoner designing a replacement for the M-14. He came up with the AR 10, which was in .30 caliber. Then the military wanted to develop a Small Caliber High Velocity (SCHV) rifle. For this, Stoner went with the ,223 in the AR-15, which the military went with. It was licensed to Colt. The military changed the powder to a different one, which tended to foul. Adding to this was that Stoner thought the rifle didn't need cleaning, and at first they didn't make a cleaning kit for it. They discovered the error, went back to a proper powder, made a cleaning kit, and had the troops use them. Another problem at first was corrosion, as originially the chamber was not chrome plated. Vietnam quickly showed the problem with corrorion and they went to chrome plating.

how short the media's memory is.

I thought Wayne LaPierre gave an excellent speech just as I thought Bill Clinton gave an equally excellent speech on nearly the indentical subject 12 years ago after Columbine.

LaPierre is being called the craziest man on earth,yet not a word about Clinton?

http://articles.latimes.com/2000/apr/16/news/mn-20323

The term,"Media Hypocrisy" comes to mind.

and do nothing? No perfect solution exists.

individuals, there for they represent the interest of their members, mostly American citizens. If they represent the interest of Americans, surely being interested in their safety would be implied.

The NRA I'm afraid like most membership organizations has been hijacked by those that pay to have their interest protected.

Instead of representing the interest of a majority of their members, they represent who pays them the most. That may or may not coincide with the interest of their members.

Such is the norm in todays society. Greed is number one.

a title for every gun, that was transferred in a private sale just like an motor vehicle title is.

However, I recognize and even sympathize some with the fears of gun owners that any more regulation or registeration requirements be the nose of the camel in the tent. The fear that anything is only a first step in interference where the government is concerned is understandable.

where should gun control be?

None?

More requirement regarding background investigation?

What about individual to individual sells?

Obviously regulatons don't stop a black market, by definition a black market is to avoid regulation, be it goverment or industry.

But can requirements for background investiations for purchase and better tracking help control gun violence or does that just infringe on privacy and citizens rights? Afterall, until you appear before a court and found guilty of a crime or ruled mentally incompetent, what basis is there for restricting your actions?

every crime a gun is used?

Not every crime with a fatality, every armed robbery, kidnapping, car jacking, anything a gun is banished to achieve the crime.

That's about what you would have to do to really reduce crimes committed with guns.

How you going to afford it?

and while I do support the death sentence, how many have been proved wrongly incarcerated the last 20 years as new evidence or techniques came out? too many to hang 'em high as quickly as many of us would do.

Of course, I believe that under the current automatic appeal setup for death sentences, they say it's as expensive to carry out the death penality as a life sentence that doesn't necessarily get so many appeals.

I've often said the death sentence should be ordered less but carried out quicker. I would tend to assign the death penality only to those that had committed horrific crimes and when caught not only admitted it but were unreprentent and definant about they'd do it again. Note that confession alone isn't necessarily enough. People have confessed more than one time under interrogation to crimes they didn't do.

the life does allow a correction if something or someone turns up later.

Those who admit, even brag, about their crime, not a problem with an expediated death sentence here.

that allows all the gun shows to circumvent a lot of the background checks, etc.

I think supposely it's person to person sales, not business to person, so they can ignore them.

I don't know many gun owners that even agree with a permit to buy being required for a person to person sale. They still see it at best being the first step to curtailing and eventually confistication of guns.

how you can post a complaint about the NRA "aren't listening to their own members" and yet have no issue with the fact that Union top officials don't listen to their own rank and file members. You have a very closed mind when it comes to 'majority rules' when it comes to causes you particularly approve of vs the ones you don't.

Derek and I discussed the gun issue while he was here and even military people, who aren't members of the NRA, agree that the wait time, the training, the registrations, and the person to person sales should all be on the table........not necessarily the actual gun type. Perhaps if military people were also a large membership of the NRA more notice would be made by the leaders of the NRA.......should that military membership also be something that should be considered since all of them ARE trained already? Maybe their voices would be heard the loudest? We also feel that no guns should be 'grandfathered' into a deal, whether they are antiques handed down or rifles/shotguns, or handguns......ALL should be registered and that registration should follow to the next owner even if inherited.

Higher ups not listening to members but using their money to do the higher ups bidding? I don't get what you are saying when you say 'sorry'. Where is the difference with both instances that Josh can complain about one and not both?

other than the damage they have caused our economy over the years. I saw this all coming in 1973 when I personally had to deal with their tactics in unionizing a very small shop which drove the screw industry out of Cleveland and eventually out of the country and other metal fabricating that needed heat treating. The unions literally have turned the Cleveland, Ohio area from a strong industrial city into a ghost town.

BO, I definitely fear regarding his agendas.