Speakeasy forum: Seems that the liberals here

Do you think that, if another man put forth the same programs and proposals to the same people he did during the campaign but was happened to be white, he would collect about the same votes from African Americans that Obama collected? I'd say...No, he would not. "Connecting" isn't just about ideology. This contest was close enough that any number of small factors could have put a different person in office. If Obama was white, he'd probably not be elected. If Romney was black or Hispanic, he just might.

There were so many dumb and nasty remarks and insinuations about both of these men but, IMO, Romney got the worst of it. You mentioned that only a moron would think that anyone would put themselves and their family through hell to be president of a country they hate. Wasn't Romney accused of wanting to be president so he could further enrich his already wealthy cronies?...that he wanted to give them tax breaks and raise taxes on everyone else? Do you think anyone would seek the presidency for that purpose and would put their families through hell to do so? Truly, that was one perception created by the Obama people that Romney could not shake and it was purely without logic just as was your suggestion about hating the country.

white voters who went for Obama versus black voters who went for Romney. If the same percent went for a person of their race in either case, Romney would have won in a landslide. I do see where Obama offered tangible benefits to Hispanics but not to African Americans. They have become more impoverished under him than before him. A few turned him aside this time but not many. You won't see a large percent of whites voting against Obama because he's black but you will see the opposite in the case of Romney.

OK, so it isn't THAT Barack Obama.......

to not reply.

...No. I won't say it.

That won't stop the complaining. Changes in how one deals with others here might lessen it but I won't suggest that directly. Everyone needs a hobby.

THAT won't stop until Obama is out of office.

with Romney's money He doesn't need the pay! It's pocket change! Greed? For what?

voted for Bill Clinton you will find that he came very close to the same percentage as Barack Obama.

It seems sensible to me that the second black candidate for President, and the first with a solid chance and the Democratic Party behind him, and the first Black President standing for re-election, he would garner a ton of black votes. This is an historic step, of course they supported him, though Black Republicans didn't reverse themselves and vote Obama.

I don't have the same confidence that you do in a black or Hispanic candidate holding the same views as Romney, with the same wavering I'm in favour of, no wait a minute I'm opposed to ... history of changing positions would be electable. In fact I'd suggest that a simple reversal of race in this election would have resulted in something approximating a landslide for the Democratic candidate. Race was a factor and a hurdle Obama had to overcome in both elections.

As for Romney, I think he wanted to be President because he wanted it, because he thought he was entitled to it, and that he "misunderestimated" his opponent, feeling that the soft economy offered him the opportunity. If he'd shown clear consistent leadership, and a sensible economic package, he might have pulled it off. He didn't do either of those things, and he chose a VP with almost as many drawbacks as Sarah Palin, meaning unpopular beliefs that were at least perceived as part of the Republican platform. Notice how quickly after the debates the Republicans threw a sheet over him and said "Ignore the man behind the curtain."

For Romney the Presidency would have been a way of topping his Father, which I think was part of his motivation as well.

Romney played the campaign very badly. He got saddled with the perception that he was one of the 1% and was intending to govern for them by his demeanor, his wardrobe, his condescesion, his air of entitlement, and his opinions voiced before the election and during it. There is a peculiar inclination among Republicans to actually believe as true that old joke which I used to see photocopied and stuck up everywhere, entitled Who Works, the punchline of which is that only the guy making the joke thinks he works, out of all the millions in America, and he's trying to shame his co-worker into working harder. That is at the root of that blatant falsehood of "the 47%", against which there are statistics easily available from non-partisan sources from a multitude of sources to disprove it. I actually wrote a post on that subject disproving the whole thing.

Barack Obama, in his off-the-rack looking sober suits looked Presidential. Mitt Romney, so often in a Blue Blazer and light coloured slacks looked like a trust fund baby from the Country Club who'd wandered in to the contest.

That is how I saw it from up here, those are the perceptions I had looking at each candidate. In my opinion, Mitt Romney didn't look like a serious candidate. Now the same could be said about George W. Bush, but he had a contrived (again IMO) folksiness about him which mitigated a lot of the other insulated, "living in the 1% Bubble" detachment from regular folks.

Rob

completely but deliberately overlook........The Primary debates had barely started, yet in February BO and his superpacs had already started campaigning against Romney and nobody else with the "Kill Romney" theme. They knew ahead of time who would wind up being the target and attacked and pounced long before the debates were over and the nominee was picked. Romney couldn't even start campaigning until August. That's a long time for BO and the Superpacs (which BO condemned and then used extensively) to have a head start on the smear campaign they had planned out.

This is why I want the Primaries to be started early and ended quickly especially when there is an incumbent. The advantage goes to the incumbent every time unless the rules get changed to where nobody on either side can campaign in any fashion until the Conventions end.

The incumbent gets a significant head start. Potential challengers need to squabble amongst themselves to shake out winner. That process benefits the incumbent in several way. It allows the sitting president's people to gather data and analyze his challengers. They get to look into their history for possible Achilles heels. The potential challengers must open open their mouths a lot. As you know, what you say can and will be held against you. This allows the incumbent's team plenty of time to listen and prepare to use his/her eventual challenger's words as weapons. Not until this process ends at consensus/convention level, can the challenger go to work against the incumbent as his/her money won't come in until that race is finished. Obama's teams had several times the amount of time that Romney had to launch his campaign. He couldn't get started in earnest until September and had just over 2 months to get out his message. Obama had the better part of a year or more. For a newly elected president, it's probable that some reelection activity begins the day of or even before he takes office.

They get to look into their history for possible Achilles heels.

And the other side can't look for the incumbent's Achilles heels, even before they become the Potential challenger?

So NOW is the playing field level?

It's a catch 22 for challengers.

It's a catch 22 for ALL challengers?

And so the campaign now begins again. This week, one gambling house determined Hillary Clinton is now tied with failed V-P contender Paul Ryan as top odds for Campaign 2016. Here are a few of the names being Tweeted and talked about and getting digital ink across political websites -- highlighting the fact that in America, the political race runs in never-ending circles.

highlighting the fact that in America, the political race runs in never-ending circles

You want

This is why I want the Primaries to be started early

You can't "start earlier" than "never-ending circles"