It gives me no joy
by JP Bill - 6/12/12 8:08 PM
by: JP Bill June 12, 2012 8:08 PM PDT
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Total posts: 35 (Showing page 1 of 2)
Where was the personal responsibility?
Why the dependence on entitlements?
... and other cliched conservative accusations that are usually directed at the dregs of American society (eg liberal cause celebre)?
you are talking about with these statements, Grim.....what do entitlements have to do with her charges? What/who are the 'dregs of American society' and what does that statement have to do with her charges?
The only comments I have to make regarding her charges is "Facebook is a public site...it was used to raise money for his defense (to me, that means attorney representation, not necessarily for bond money). Did anybody (Zimmerman, his wife, his attorney) really think that nobody would think to check out the website to see how much had been collected so far? I mean, if it was public knowledge the site existed as a collection spot for donations, it stands to reason that somebody in law enforcement or an informant who formed an opinion about Zimmerman before trial would notify law enforcement about the funds there. Whether Zimmerman himself knew how much was there prior to his wife's jailhouse visit is questionable and is up to interpretation, but obviously his wife knew if you listen to her taped testimony and tried to hide that information. SHE may have been trying to use 'code' during her visit before bail was set, but that doesn't mean that HE realized she meant $186,000 instead of $186.00. According to statements his attorney has made, Zimmerman didn't have any way to check the Facebook page from jail prior to the bail hearing and could have honestly believed there wasn't anything there that amounted to anything....and Zimmerman himself didn't testify at that hearing; only his wife did. I just don't understand why his own attorney never checked the site ahead of time and, if he did, Zimmerman needs a new lawyer because the attorney allowed his wife to knowingly lie on the stand during that phone testimony. The only reason for the attorney to NOT check ahead of time was to give him 'deniability'....but that still makes him an incompetant and pretty shady representative.
RE: SHE may have been trying to use 'code' during her visit
SHE may have been trying to use 'code' during her visit before bail was set, but that doesn't mean that HE realized she meant $186,000 instead of $186.00.
Things are going along great George...There's 186 bucks in your defense fund...
330 million people and he gets $186...lots of support there.
George Zimmerman asked his wife in jail calls to "pay off all the bills," including an American Express bill and a Sam's Club card, prosecutors allege.
and he thought he only had $186? "ALL the bills?" and put what's left over in Bonds.....Obviously he does know how to manage his money.
RE: and Zimmerman himself didn't testify at that hearing;
when you "take the stand" are you testifying?
Zimmerman took the stand at the bond hearing Friday morning and apologized directly to Trayvon Martin's family, saying, "I wanted to say I am sorry for the loss of your son."
On Friday, Zimmerman also testified that Martin seemed just a few years younger than himself and that he didn't know if he was armed or not.
He wasn't asked
by TONI H - 6/13/12 8:31 AM
In Reply to: RE: and Zimmerman himself didn't testify at that hearing; by JP Bill
about his finances...he only made that one statement of apology to the Martin family and left the stand.
In reality, this wasn't actually a 'bond hearing'....it was what is referred to in Florida as an "Arthur Hearing"....and that amounts to sort of a 'mini-trial' which forces the prosecution to 'prove' to the court that he committed a crime for which no bail should be set, and they couldn't prove that.
>>>What is an Arthur Hearing?
A:The Florida Constitution guarantees everyone the right to a bond when arrested, but there are three types of charges that do not qualify for this guarantee: capital felonies, life felonies, and felonies punishable by life.
Capital felonies are those charges which qualify the defendant for the death penalty. Life felonies are those charges where the sentence is mandatory life. Felonies punishable by life are first degree felonies where the sentence can be life (instead of "just" a 30 year maximum for regular first degree felonies).
For these three types of charges, the judge will order No Bond. However, you can ask for a hearing before the trial to test the State's evidence and see if it amounts what we call "Proof Evident, Presumption Great". The name of that kind of hearing is called an Arthur Hearing. At the hearing, which is like a mini-trial, the State must present its evidence to show that proof of guilt is evident and the presumption of guilt is great. If it fails, the judge MUST give the defendant a bond. Even if they pass the test, the judge is still allowed to order a bond but the defendant needs all the family support possible to convince the judge to do so.
The only reason he is back in jail right now is because, although he didn't testify to his finances, he led the court to believe he was indigent (whether HE actually knew he wasn't at the time is suspect)...but his WIFE did testify at that hearing and lied.....and being indigent allowed him to post a lesser bail than what he might have received otherwise. In any event, he WOULD have been given bail rights.
RE: he only made that one statement of apology
he only made that one statement of apology to the Martin family and left the stand
NO..... he didn't...he also commented that he though Martin was a few years younger than himself and that he didn't know if Martin was armed or not.
When Z was talking to 911 he said "late teens" so Z considers late teens "a few years younger" than 28. That's like 1/3 of his life, since he found out Martin was 17...he changed his age guess to "a few years younger"....
Now that I know your age, I'm guessing you're a few years younger than me......
He was a better guesser when he didn't know the age.
He must figure it would be a fairer fight if he thought the combatants were closer to the same age.
But it was to late to use that story...he already had his description on the 911 call.
And the "I didn't know if he had a gun statement".....
He was trying to introduce evidence?(his version anyways) BEFORE the trial.
.....to excuse this on the grounds that "defense" money and "bond" money are two separate things?
She claimed they had no money. Period. If she had said, "Well, we have this $150,000 but that's for the lawyers...." the judge would have laughed as he set bail.
You know what an entitlement mentality is.
The idea that someone else should discount what you owe, or pay for your needs, rather than one paying for it oneself.
As a general question... I wonder if the Zimmerman's are liable to pay a gift tax on the money they got through this web site?
Hmmm... man slaughter, perjury, AND a possible tax evader?
maybe you could research that
and get back to us with the answer. Most gifts are tax free, up to a point. I know in the family you can give something like 10-12 thousand per offspring each year tax free but there's a max that can be considered as a gift. That's why you convert any excess to gold in earlier years and just leave the untracked coins for them to sell off here and there later on. Isn't it interesting how the govt thinks it should own our wealth, tell us what we can do with it, take sometimes a bigger slice than our children, and then toss a fit when denied?
(NT) did you just suggest a method to subvert tax laws?
why yes, yes I did.
by James Denison - 6/13/12 10:18 AM
In Reply to: (NT) did you just suggest a method to subvert tax laws? by grimgraphix
you gotta problem with that?
Bear in mind, James...
Bear in mind most people wouldn't have a problem. The Estate Tax exemption is 5.1 million dollars. Gifts over $13,000 must be reported, but there is also a 5.1 million dollar lifetime tax exclusion on gifts, so most people wouldn't have a problem with that either.
The biggest problems seen to be with farms
Passing on the family farm, which is already paid for and therefore competitive, but if over a certain value when taxed it becomes uncompetitive or worse has to be sold which also brings extra rules concerning capital gains into play. When the value goes over what's exempted from Estate Tax, it's like Uncle Sam showing up as the illegitimate child demanding he get some inheritance too.
More legalistic shenanigans against people and their money.
More legalistic shenanigans against people and their money. The law just hates when people might have enough money to defend themselves in court, that's why they have bail set up, to deprive them as much as possible first. What's really at work here is the usual fleecing of the charged prior to trial, interfering with what should be their right of adequate defense, creating as much economic hardship as possible. IRS for one should just be done away with, it's not part of the Constitution and we've suffered under it's dictatorial powers long enough while spouting the lie that we are FREE. Search warrants are given out willy nilly almost like the British letters of carte blanche prior to the Revolution. Forget any sense of privacy of personal papers, which a bank account is too, according to the Constitution. Demo-rats are allowed through the vote to steal through an onerous taxation policy which creates an taxation of unequal representation when leveled against those who actually OWN their wealth. Instead the wealth is to be stolen to be placed in the mouths of bas***ds born to promiscous women by means of what's little better than stud service, who then grow up to be just like them and the studs being cast out become criminals upon our streets.
As for the Zimmerman situation, he's been railroaded by Yankee instigators and their carpet bagging ways at the behest of Trayvon's parents and yet not a single arrest of any of them for all the trouble and even crime they've stirred up by their actions not just in Sanford but across this nation over the matter. Sharpton especially should be sitting in a jail cell right now, charged with willful encouragement of criminal activity and complicity in such acts by his encouragement thereof. Too bad Bensonhurst didn't didn't rid the nation of him.
I will greatly rejoice when Zimmerman is finally exonerated and freed since I know it will burn in the pits of every Liberal's stomach like a cancerous bleeding ulcer. They also know he will eventually be freed as regards the shooting which is why they are doing everything they can to try and make him trip over some procedural problem they can then stick him with instead, so they aren't denied their expected pound of flesh. Vampire Justice, that's what they want.
Amidst your rant....
by Josh K - 6/13/12 9:12 AM
.....you might acknowledge that Mrs. Zimmerman (apparently) lied in court and that's why she was arrested.
it sounds like she was up to something less than candid. It also may have been the first time she ever had to deal with such a sum of money and maybe not even sure or feeling it was lawfully theirs at the time. It's entirely possible if she didn't feel it was actually theirs, that's why she didn't include it in the proceedings for bail hearing. If you suddenly come into a decent sum of money and not sure you will get to keep it, you won't be thinking of it as yours till somewhat later when you have confidence that it is actually fully yours.
not sure it was theirs? Give me a break.
Talking in code. Not questioning her husband when she was instructed to pay off all their bills.
If she had questions about whose money it was, then she had plenty of chances to raise the issue.
That snapping sound you all just heard...
.....was James' spine cracking in half from the bending over backwards he's doing to defend the Zimmermans.
"legalistic shenanigans" You're joking, right?
by grimgraphix - 6/13/12 9:50 AM
Bonds and bail are designed to give an economic incentive to stick around for one's own trial.
Remember... this is a man whose whereabouts were unknown by the legal authorities for several weeks, and thus demonstrated himself as a possible flight risk with the capability (and also the funds) to disappear.
The relatively small amount of his bail is a gift, considering this recent history.
He should have been released without bail required
Have you also considered if the timing was different? What if the judge had set the bail, released Zimmerman, then the website was set up and collected that amount of money? Would the judge then call Zimmerman back and raise his bail? I seriously doubt it! This whole thing about now including website funds toward his defense into the bail consideration is just a steaming pile of legalistic hooey.
Of course not
by Josh K - 6/13/12 1:56 PM
In Reply to: He should have been released without bail required by James Denison
In such a case his wife would have been telling the truth when she said they had no money, even if they were thinking of ways to raise some.
But that's not what happened. She lied. They weren't "website funds." It was their money, regardless of how they got it.
The record shows that the judge knew there was a website and funds. The prosecutor knew there was a website and funds. Furthermore the means by which they could obtain that information was made known to them. If the funds gathered through the website was that important in determining bail, then the court and the prosecutor are the ones at fault for making a bail determination before insuring all the information they needed was available to them. This means it is the judge and the prosecutor who are at fault in this matter and now engaging in a miscarriage of justice in order to divert attention from their own failures and to pressure George into a plea bargain to rescue his wife from further prosecutorial misconduct.
Everyone knew there were funds....
Everyone except Z and his wife.
Maybe Zimmerman can claim that he didn't know it was illegal to shoot and kill someone.
...you can't defend yourself in this country, even in states like Florida, without facing the risk of becoming a victim of attack TWICE.
RE:without facing the risk of becoming a victim of attack
without facing the risk of becoming a victim of attack TWICE.
He shot Martin and Z is the victim?
He's back in jail for lying about the money and he's the victim?
Z shot Martin, then he shot himself.
He is the author of his own misfortune.
attacked by Martin
by James Denison - 6/15/12 6:34 AM
In Reply to: RE:without facing the risk of becoming a victim of attack by JP Bill
then attacked by the system. Yes, he's the victim. Twice.
Not that I'm aware of.
(NT) That's your lack of awareness at work
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