Speakeasy forum: 80% of Americans want tax increases

if all the responses were "Yes"?

Mark

You keep calling her your wife...are you still married? Do you not both share the responsibilities of marriage? If so, then is she making the house payments, pay the utility bills, buy the food? What does your income go for? If you are still married and she pays the majority of the bills, then maybe that's why she doesn't have any money?

are coming from. I don't see any statistics in either post or the link.

Diana

I saw one 79% for one question for one state.

Diana

Mostly in the divorce decree.

After that, it's usually too late

that half of everything earned during the duration of a marriage belongs to each spouse on divorce?

It's pretty well established now in US I thought? I know the fine print in 401K and retirement plans specify if you divorce, your ex spouse will receive half of the earning for that period of time you were married.

Earnings before marriage or after divorce are not subject to that division. Extra awards may be made by a court for other reasons present to the court.

which is why any flat law hurts someone. And why modifications and exclusions are added until the law becomes so unwieldy that it's manipulated by some to do what it was never intended to do.

And the first difference is disability vs earned.

The controlling spouse can do a lot wrong if they are of that nature I'm sure. If that person is lousy enough that they can ignore the needs of the disabled for their wants and fun, they can steal them blind. It also happens a lot with elderly parents as they become unable to handle day to day life. Then the abuser IMO should lose it all. I have no idea how much you can do about it legally, that's just a personal opinion. I've seen a similar if lesser example of that in relatives where the child that was a caregiver for an declining father barely took care of him, then tried to get everything because she lived with him to take care of him.

When it's not a case of outright neglect and abuse, we have other things to consider. Did that spouse put any money into maintaining that house? How about the electric, oil, gas, food, medicine and clothing bills, did the disability and medical coverage cover it all? If not how do you decide what the caregiver deserves from the disability payments?

The argument is that a married couple is one household and each has equal rights for the duration of that marriage. Otherwise, a nonworking spouse has no right to any money or any assets paid for by the working spouse. Or it one makes twice what the other, the spouse with the higher income has rights to 2/3 of the property and assets. I do know one man that said if his wife left him he'd burn the house down before she'd get, even if she was in it. Nice huh?

In recent years it has become more common for the law to regard everything going into a household as equal property of both spouses, and that extends to everything acquire with income of either during that time. One common exception as I understand is inheritance, I think that is not considered common property in most cases. And if invested profit from it is also excluded I think. Now property and assets before marriage, as well as return on those assets, are normally excluded too I believe. And prenups help there too I'm sure.

Prenuptial agreements of course evolved to prevent or avoid some of this. Or to at least establish the ground rules for division of assets if there is a divorce. It seems they are sometimes broken or modified though, depending on the causes for divorce, unforeseen success sometimes, or other reasons. This of course is normally the area of the extremely wealthy, or sometimes more because of fame even it seems.

Did YOU check the fine print?

Any chance you could post it....I mean you don't have a "special plan" do you?

Most 401Ks and divorce laws are boiler plate.

You got a pre-nup?

but there are enough divorce cases at work so I know about it from the guys complaining their wife didn't make the money si they shouldn't get it. They want to keep everything if their wife didn't work. Or if they made 2/3 of the joint income, they want 2/3 the property. They never accepted the communal property idea.

I didn't run the one before this either, and it also had rules about divorce.

Besides, even if you 401K doesn't say it explicitly, there's a very good chance the divorce judge will. That of course will be according to state law, so the requirements may vary widely. But do read a few search results, it seems quite common.

Do you think the spouse shouldn't get anything in case of a divorce if they didn't "work" outside the home?

Better double check with your HR soon then.

401K?

Ok, so I should have said many instead of implying all.

But have you asked your HR yet?

Have you researched common standards yet?

Just quick looks around the web seems to indicate it's more common than not.

Both my last job and this one, there are provisions providing for a spouse to receive a portion, approximately half, of the money saved during the life of the marriage.

As far as showing, no, I don't know of any company that publishes it's 401K plan details for perusal by anyone on the web. Do you? I'd be interested in such information myself. But that's generally considered privy to employees and regulators only in my experience.

Have you asked your HR yet?

Are you denying spouses have any right to money in a 401K account in the event of divorce?

Or are you just so sure again that I'm wrong? It seems you have a habit of that.


Your desire to protect your funds may be self-seeking. Or it may be a matter of survival. But either way, your spouse has the legal grounds to claim all or part of your 401k benefits in a divorce settlement. And in most cases, you'll have to find a way to make a fair and equitable split of the funds. By being organized, prepared and knowledgeable about your legal options and rights, you can split your 401k reasonably.


Typically, the amount in a 401k accumulated during a marriage is considered marital property.

In a divorce, your former spouse and any dependents may be entitled to a portion of you 401(k) assets.


BTW, it may apply to retirement benefits as well as 401K savings, especially as part of a court ordered division of assets and depending on your state laws.

How the division of your 401k nest egg is carried out depends on the State you live in. However, most States have equitable distribution rules where any retirement assets saved up after marriage will be divided by a 50-50 ratio. Other factors such as length of marriage and each individual's contribution also come into play.
Note: If you live in a State that has community property laws, you will face a 50-50 distribution rule of retirement assets


BTW, you do know that if you're married when you die, your spouse is your beneficiary under federal law? To change that, you have to have your spouse's written consent.


Now these links mostly deal with "qualified domestic relations order" from a court, however, there is several mentions this is necessary to avoid tax penalties for early withdrawals to pay off a spouses settlement of interest in the 401K savings. Many plans have it spelled out in the plans.

Of course you can refuse to accept I'm telling you facts about my current and past plan, other peoples plans that I have discussed with them face to face, and just choose to consider everything I'm telling you is a lie. In previous discussion you certainly challenged my knowledge of the topic, and accused me of several things. I think that time I finally satisfied most even if not you that I did know what I was talking about.

Now while many of these links provided to aid you and provide information refer to QDRO's, I'm aware that at some, and I believe most, plans have written in rules for division of assets in case of divorce. If you can spare the time to do a bit of reading, you may be able to realize that it's likely most plans require a QDRO to be presented to pay off a divorced spouse. And given they recognize that liability, does it strain credibility for you that corporations would be savvy enough to write restrictions on withdrawals on what will probably be court ordered divided funds?

Maybe again you need to consider a bit more what you're talking about.

That's not in my plan.

401(k) and Divorce

"...How your funds are divided relies in part on the state in which you live. In most states, your assets are subject to equitable distribution during a divorce settlement. This means that 401(k) assets accumulated during your marriage probably, but not necessarily, will be divided 50-50...."

Assets are assets and are susceptible to division in a divorce, particularly in states with a community property law. Without a prenuptial agreement your common assets are at the mercy of the court in a divorce.