Mac laptops forum: Format an external HD with Mac OSX Extended (NOT journaled)?

I've seen other systems stop booting as hard drive sizes exploded again. We saw HDD booting up to 1TB and then folk complained their systems would not boot 3TB drives no matter what they tried.

I wonder.
Bob

Also a good point. Afraid the PPC models are largely before my time as a repair tech, so aside from a few MLB replacements on some 05 iBook G4s, going to have to defer to others on this one.

I remember that when you said "Apple" and "PPC" you pretty much said you were going to get a Firewire connected drive.

I liked the looks of this one so much that I paid up for it.
http://www.amazon.com/Macally-Hi-Speed-FireWire-Enclosure-G-S350SUAB2/dp/B003VTZFN4/

Bob

I understand what you mean here, and I get what journaling does, but the issue you raise is a bit beside the point. Your correct in that my model can't be booted via USB, unless you want to mess with Open Firmware.

I may not have elucidated my point, so I'll explain what I've discovered I can do...

1) you need a .dmg, or an actual installed OS on another drive, connected via USB,
2) Start your computer (containing the drive you wish to restore to) in Open Firmware [command-option-o-f]
3) when you see the open firmware screen, find your USB port, using the device list command [dev ls]. In my case its:

/pci@f2000000/usb@1b

4) if the external drive you have connected to that USB port is drive that is formatted so that Open Firmware can read the file tree, you should see [Disk@1]. So I get, if Open Firmware sees the HD device:

/pci@f2000000/usb@1/Disk@1

From there, I just make an alias for the above address (other sources say to call it [ud]):

devalias ud /pci@f2000000/usb@1/disk@1

Then I write a boot command, with a number addressing the partition... in my case its 1s3, or the third partition file on disk 1 (the device):

boot ud:3,\System\Library\CoreServices\BootX

This is how you boot a PPC like mine off of USB. I've done this before, so I know it can be done. I question whether the Mac OSX Extended (journaled) format on the external drive I am booting from is the culprit that prevents me from performing the above operation, because of what I understand about Open Firmware.

My understanding is that Open Firmware is the most pared down shell you can reach on your Mac. Ostensibly, it's for the CPU to know where all it's computer components are. Unlike Single User Mode, you can't even get a command list by typing [help], or anything else for that matter. I read somewhere that it is or resembles the programming language Forth. I can't be sure, because these are things i read elsewhere on the web, so I am unwilling to commit to the truth of that.
Anyhow, my understanding is that journaling is just complicated enough of an extra bit of format code, that it can obscure the Open Firmware's attempts to "see" the device. I don't know if this is necessarily true, as you suggest it may not be, but I've heard it surmised otherwise.

I suppose I could test by formatting a usb Flash stick in MOSXE(j), and see if Open Firmware has trouble with that. I know it can read the flash stick fine in nonjournaled MOSXE. Unfortunately, backup to flash stick failed. I've looked around, and have read that it's because a flash stick is too "slow" a form of memory storage for a mac attempting the boot process.
I'll attempt that soon, and get back to you all...

what R. Proffitt says below is intriguing to me, because I am using a 1TB drive which Open Firmware is failing to detect, and when I succeeded at the USB external boot, it was using an actual 160GB mac formatted desktop drive in an swappable drive chassis. He suggested it was a formatting problem, but perhaps it's the drive size, like some information technology equivalent of mismatched gear ratios?

I'm using an older drive with an earlier OSX for now, but I'd like to fix this issue at some point, so I can put the newer, larger drive back into my laptop. I'd also like to see if I can solve this problem with what I have, rather than use the Open Wallet command.

R. Proffitt doesn't suggest it was a formatting problem. The friend whose swappable drive I was using did. editing error.

From my memory, the only bootable thing was firewire back then.

Why not go with what was the standard back then?
Bob

Are you sure? Really sure that your specific model can boot from USB devices? Just because the open firmware is registering that something is connected to the USB port doesn't mean you'll be able to boot from it. It really was only the last PPC refreshes that could do this, and even then it was generally more of a PITA than it was worth.

Which is kind of the next point I would make. Even assuming you could get this to work, is it really worth the amount of effort you have to go to? It shouldn't be that difficult to find a FW400 enclosure that is decent in both quality and price. Then you simply hold down the option key, pick the partition you want, and off you go.

I'm very skeptical this is a filesystem issue, and far more willing to believe you're just using an older refresh that doesn't support USB booting at all. So unless when you say you've done it before, you mean with that exact system, I'm likely going to just stick with my supposition that yours is just not a model that's capable of this. And at this point, I would probably find it a little difficult to believe even if you did assert that you've done it with this specific system. If that were true, you probably would have mentioned it right away, or at least in the second go around posting. By this point, I'd be inclined to think you'd just be trying to tell me what I wanted to hear to help you follow this particular rabbit hole which will lead nowhere.

Yes I'm really, really and for true certain I can boot my PPC (g4 17" powerbook 1.33g aluminum) from an external drive. I really have done it before, with this very machine I'm typing on (which I opened all by myself, and swapped an older, lower gig drive back into).
Yes, I'm really interested in going to that kind of effort. I've done it before, and I'll probably go to that effort again. No, I'm not interested in dropping $100+ dollars on more gear if there is a solution I can employ with someone elses advice and my time and wits. That's my prerogative.

Now, with kid gloves off, I have to say: Jimmy, you are wrong. You were wrong when you posted at first about your opinion that I can't external boot my PPC, and, metaconversationally, you are wrong to believe I posted to satisfy your skepticism.

I posted so that people who have a constructive answer, and are inclined to reply, might help me out. You don't have that answer. That's all.