Laptop troubleshooting forum: Laptop: Sudden battery failure or something more?

see batteryuniversity.com for more tips to extend battery life. This site has been around for years.

Newer batteries are Lithium-ion and they don't like a complete discharge. Simply keep them as full as possible; they have no memory effect so you can charge them at any time.
Nickel-Cadmium (NiCd) batteries must be fully discharged and then completely charged. The laptop itself will prevent a too deep discharge.

Your battery was dying and now it's dead. Recyle it, buy a new one.

From my experience, Lithium batteries should be nearly fully discharged before charging, unlike NiCad, alkaline, or wet cell batteries.
Continuous partial charging lessens battery life.
Also, unlike wet cell, alkaline, or wet cell batteries, lithium batteries only charge or discharge. If a rapid charge/discharge cycle is in effect, the batteries won't last very long. Typically this can only take place if there is a defective charging control, causing a plugged-in unit to try to operate off the batteries while still plugged in.
I think a battery life of only 3 years is very unusual for this type of battery. They last much longer than that, if only at partial charge, if the charging controls in the unit are OK.

that just goes against science and chemistry....sorry! The only advantage to at least once in a blue moon to lowering the charge of a modern lithium battery for laptops, is to reset the "fuel" meter inside the battery. But this should immediately be followed by a full charge.

Don't take my word for it - go to batteryuniversity.com to see the straight poop. This site has been online for ever!!!

Normally, a laptop battery last for 1 to 2 years. After that time duration your battery will worn out and die. You can test your laptop plugged in without the battery. If the problem is still there, please go and visit the nearest service center. Laptop batteries are maintenance free. But to keep yourself in the safe side. Always remove the charger if its fully charged. Good luck!

FujitsuTech

Hi Gururaj

First let me thank you for providing a Good description of your laptop as opposed to just saying..."my HP laptop" or as some might say...."my laptop's battery"... etc, etc. Well Done!

Now to your problem....sorry to hear that the battery for your HP Pavilion DV3 laptop is experiencing charging issues. Anytime I have an issue with my products I always check the manufacturers website for article support relating to my problem and/or the resident community forum similar to this CNET forum.

I Googled..."HP Pavilion DV3 Laptop Battery" and obtained the following link:

http://h18021.www1.hp.com/helpandsupport/hp-support-assistant.html

Use the following link to download the HP Support Assistant Tool to Calibrate and Test Battery.

The site is administered by HP Technical Support. It has information specific to your issue (and model) on how to troubleshoot the following (that I think you'll find very useful):

-Battery
-System Board
-Power Supply
-Calibrate and Test the Battery

The above link may or may not solve your issue...but IMO it's a good starting point.

Coming to this forum to seek advice is a great idea. Posting questions gives everyone an opportunity to learn (I know I've learned a lot) share information and their experiences. However, sometimes knowing where to look can be just as useful as knowing the answer.

So...my humble advice is to always exhaust the immediate resources available to you....like the manufacturers website. It may save you some time by getting your issue resolved quickly versus waiting for a viable answer to appear in an excellent community forum like this one. Kudos' to Lee Koo and the members who participate! High Desert Charlie offered some additional advice that I think you will find useful.

Good luck Gururaj, I hope you resolve your issue quickly so you can get back to enjoying your HP Pavilion DV3 .

Together Everyone Achieves More

Note: This post was edited by its original author To fix link and merge 2nd post into original on 11/02/2012 at 1:09 PM PT

A very positive well-presented recommendation - we would all do well to remember to check our SOURCES in more than this.

Batteries don't last forever, but they should graually lessen the return of charges as they take more charges, etc. and then drain sooner. So, a new battery after 18mo-2yrs. is a good purchase for many, regardless if it still holds a charge. Quality does matter, cheap is cheap.

Next, outside of any s/w glitches or vendor issues, some laptops do fail because they simply operate at higher temps. These in turn cause int. damage to include any charging ckt. or similar and the brains behinds smart(from mtrbd.) battery status upkeep. Some laptops do have s/w that helps maintain a battery in some way, if an update or improper one was done, then return to date(restore feature) when it didn't cause issues.

Last, some batteries weren't made good from day 1. There are known battery recalls, so visit the maker's support website and see if yours falls into such. Weak battery, well that maybe due to manufactring issues but at the same time, an actual AC charging adapter is at fault. Improper unplugging(man handling) will break the wire or int. solder connection and lead to less than desired leads. As time goes by it gets worse or flat out fails due to breakage, shorts, overheats periods and then fails because its always charging to include the int. laptop charging ckt..

tada -----Willy

You are correct in that normally a rechargeable battery will just slowly deteriorate leaving you with diminishing runtimes, however most battery packs now have protection circuits inside to prevent overheating and other problems. Remember the reports of all the laptops that were bursting into flames a few years ago? This forced manufactures into producing smarter batteries that protect themselves from overcharging and overheating. Your battery may have a shorted cell which would trigger the protection circuitry resulting in effectively disconnecting the battery. However, it is also possible that your battery is not the real problem and it is the charging circuitry inside the laptop that has failed. There is really no way that the average user can test this other than simply replacing the battery to see if that solves the problem. So you really have only 5 options:

1. Purchase a new battery and try it.
2. Borrow a battery from a friend who has the exact same model HP.
3. Take it into your local computer repair shop and have them check it out.
4. Simply decide to never use the laptop on battery again (using it plugged in only).
5. Give up and purchase a brand new laptop.

LAPTOP BATTERIES
On the subject of laptop batteries, the average rechargeable laptop battery will last about 2 to 3 years and are often rated for about 500 to 1000 charge/discharge cycles. However, this is dependent on a number of factors including:

The Type and initial quality of the battery? - For example, Apple is known for using high quality batteries in their products and you can usually expect about 5 years from them. Look at the batteries now used in hybrid and electric cars that typically last 10 years or more.

The Quality level of sophistication of the actual charging circuit? - A good charging circuit will be designed to best match the battery specifications and not charge it too quickly or overcharge the battery if left plugged in all the time. Some charging circuits can actually prolong the battery life if designed correctly.

Temperature where the battery is used? - Both extremes in heat and cold can effect battery life and run times.

How the battery is actually used and how often? - The way that you use your battery powered equipment can affect the overall life of the battery. Some batteries like to be exercised by totally discharging them occasionally. Others do not do so well being totally discharged but rather prefer to only be discharged to about 40% before recharging. In some cases, leaving the laptop plugged in all the time and rarely using it on battery can reduce its life.

HOW TO GET A NEW BATTERY?
You have several choices for purchasing a new battery. The Original Manufacturer, a Retail store or online 3rd party supplier. Getting a replacement battery from the original manufacturer such as HP, Sony or Dell can be very expensive(often more that $150) as can a retail store and if your laptop is already 3 years old, the hard drive is probably due to fail soon so I would not recommend forking out the full price from the manufacturer. Instead I would recommend ordering the battery from a 3rd party supplier on Amazon or ebay. Note: The 3rd party battery may not be as good a quality as the original OEM battery (actually in a few cases I have found them to be better) but the price is certainly much better and unless you plan to replace the hard drive and keep the laptop for many more years I would not pay the extra. Note: If you have a choice of a 6 cell or a 9 cell battery and you are interested in longer battery run time, go for the 9 cell.

If you want to check the price from HP use this link. You will need the exact model number of your laptop or the actual part number on the battery http://h20141.www2.hp.com/Hpparts/part_search.aspx?mscssid=E67F97317E3C48ECB8ADDD80345811A5&NoMatch=true

If you want to go with the aftermarket battery, you can get one for about $40 on Amazon or from some other suppliers such as http://www.battdepot.com. I have had really good luck with batteries from Amazon.


Dana
Wayland Computer

Thank you for your comments. I always appreciate any response (good or bad) from the readers of these posts. I apologize in advance for not being very quick at responding sometimes but I only work on these in my spare time, which I don't have a whole lot of. Let me see if I can answer some of your questions:

1. Type of initial battery - Is there any way for a consumer to figure out if the battery used in the laptop is good enough before purchasing one? I have had good experience with Dell Studio and Acer Aspire batteries but Toshiba Satellite battery has been pathetic. ANSWER: I do not know of any way to determine if a specific laptop comes with a quality battery or not and since the charging circuit can also contribute to the overall life of the battery, you are really at the mercy of the luck of the draw. Computer models change too quickly and manufactures change battery suppliers making it almost impossible to even review computers for this 2 or 3 years down the road. It would not matter anyway because by the time you decide that one model has a great life, they don't make it anymore.

2. How the battery used and how often - You said, some prefer complete discharge and others don't. How should a user figure out if the battery installed in the laptop prefers complete or partial discharge. Most of the time user manuals are decently pathetic. ANSWER: I wish I had a really good answer to this. All of the batteries in laptops today are Lithium Ion and I have seen so many conflicting reports as to how to prolong their life. I am not a battery expert and maybe someone can join the conversation who is? In my opinion, I think it has more to do with the quality of the battery and the charging circuit. Look at the batteries in hybrid cars now that are guaranteed for 10 years.

3. Getting a new battery - I am definitely not in favor of forking our $100 upwards for a new battery, instead I would just buy a new machine but if I want to put some extra life in the laptop, which other battery manufacturers/websites apart from battdepot do you recommend. Google gives you just tons of results and there is no way to figure out which ones are good and which ones are just from a slum in China. ANSWER: Unfortunately, not only are most of the computers made in China but most of the batteries are made there too. Some have battery cells made in Korea or Japan but assembled elsewhere. I have purchased batteries from dozens of suppliers over the years and have no real preference other than using Amazon to make the purchase.

Also in the post you mentioned, 3 years of laptop life and the HDD could be up for fail. Agreed you are a computer specialist but from a user point of view, I beg to differ. Luckily, I have never had a HDD failing on me. At the same time, I do use laptops with a great care. I do not intend to start argument, who is right. I would like to know, apart from clicking noise, bad sectors etc, is there any utility that will keep an eye on HDD functioning so that before it just crashes one morning, you get a warning. I do back up once a week, still nobody likes their HDD failing on them.
ANSWER PART A: Again using the automobile as an example, you can have a car last 250,000 miles or have one that is ready for the junk yard at 100,000. The same is true of hard drives, I have plenty of drives that are still working away at 10 years, but I see far more that fail after only 2 or 3 years. Hard drive manufacturer have reduced their Warranties to 1, 2 and 3 years depending on the model. How often have you seen an extended warranty on a laptop that is greater than 3 years? This is for a reason? The life of a hard drive is dependent on so many factors:
1. The initial quality of the drive? - There are many different model drives, some are designed to last longer from the start.
2. How much use the computer gets? The hard drive may last a lot longer for someone who only uses their computer for an hour per day vs. someone who uses their computer all day long.
3. The type of use A? - For example: someone who is streaming music or video constantly is working the hard drive a lot harder than someone who is just using the computer to read their emails and write a few word documents.
4. Type of Use B - A hard drive in a laptop that is mobile is a lot more likely to fail than one that just sits on a desk. Real Road warriors that use their laptop while traveling are much more likely to have early drive failures.
5. Accidents - Hard drive are very sensitive to shock and vibration, especially while turned on. Sometimes all it takes is to trip over the power cord bringing the laptop crashing to the floor or slamming the lid down a little too hard. I can't begin to tell you how many kids have crashed the hard drive on their laptop by slamming the lid closed when their parents are yelling at them about spending too much time on the computer.
6. Power Settings - There are a series of power settings for every computer that dictate when the screen saver comes on, when the computer goes into sleep mode and when the hard drive shuts down. If you leave your computer on 24 hours a day and never shut down the hard drive even when you are not using it, this could shorten the life of the drive. However, there has always been controversy over whether a drive will last longer if left on all the time or turned on and off as needed.
7. Excess heat - Heat is a great killer of laptops and hard drives. Using a laptop on the rug, on the bed or even on your lap can block the cooling vents thus overheating the laptop which can shorten the overall life. Users that keep their laptop on the hard surface such as a desk or even use a laptop cooler will often experience longer life from their computer.
8. Did it really fail - Not all reported hard drive failures are actual failed drives. A large number are not failures of the drive at all but rather data corruption of one kind or another. A failed update, sudden power loss or damage due to a virus can corrupt the data on the drive making it look \like the drive has failed.

All I can go by is looking at the average of the more than 1000 service call that I make per year and what I am seeing for failures. Hard drives are being worked harder and harder each year with greater use due to music and video as well as daily virus scans and updates. More and more kids have their own laptops who are not so easy on their equipment and I don't think the hard drives are made as well as they once were. If your computer is an important part of your life and the information is equally important than I would recommend either replacing the computer every 3 years or replacing the hard drive as a part of a routine maintenance program. Do you wait to have a blowout before replacing the tires on your car? Don't forget that backing up your data is just as critical whether your hard drive is a week old or 5 years old because a hard drive can fail at any time.

ANSWER PART B: If there were a single test that would tell you exactly when your hard drive was going to fail, every computer in the world would have that pre installed. Without getting into the newer SSD (Solid State Drives), all traditional hard drives are electromechanical devices and can fail in many ways. It would be similar to predicting when your car is going to break down. You can run all kinds of tests and occasionally you might receive a hint that something is going wrong, but you will not know exactly when it is going to breakdown. The same is true of a traditional hard drive. You might get some early warning signs like increased noise coming from the drive or a general slowing down of your computer, or occasionally you might even get an error message indication that there is a problem reading or writing to the hard drive. But for the most part, there is no single absolute indicator of a pending failure. I have had hard drives that started making all kinds of noise such as a loud whining that have continued to operate for another year or two. Having said that, there are some tests that can warn you of some types of problems, but they only cover 1 or 2 possible modes of failure. Some computers will track the S.M.A.R.T. data and report errors to you which could indicate a pending failure. If your computer does not track this, then you can track this using software such as Active Smart or HDD Health. Again this is only one of many indicators and a drive that is show no problems in this area can still fail tomorrow.

Thank you for writing such detailed post. Very informative, useful and certainly much appreciated.

Hp gives a good ts guide here. http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/document?docname=c00259897&cc=fr&dlc=fr&lc=en&product=3985007

Also many hp models come with a battery diagnostic tool available uner the hp or Hewlett packard programs. You may want to check there for a diagnostic.

Finally, don't forget to check if there's a recall on the battery before replacing it. I've gotten several free replacements due to the recall.

Buy a new battery on Ebay, the shelf life is 2 years.