HDTV picture settings forum: Samsung PN50C8000 picture settings

1) Please compare 50 / 60 Hz black level, and 24p with and without cinema smooth.
In Europe it's very important 50 Hz MLL. See here for details:
http://dennisthomsen.dk/2010/08/samsung-c7705-plasma-black-level-at-50hz-vs-60hz-vs-cinema-smooth

2) How aggressive is ABL ?

Tank you!
Nicola

So, let me get this straight - The PNC8000 defeats the VT25 in overall color reproduction, bright room performance, and video processing, while barely coming up short of the VT25 in black level performance, and yet earns an 8.0 in performance, and is deemed the second best television of 2010. Do you really think that having a black level that is barely lighter than the VT25 but defeating that television in every other major category is enough to warrant a 1.0 deduction in performance rating and awarding the VT25 the crown?

I was waiting on your review of the C8000 before purchasing one or the other, and I couldn't be more confused now. The VT25 doesn't properly handle 24p content, but the C8000 does. The C8000 has better overall color reproduction, better bright room performance, better standard definition handling, and an excellent black level that is barely lighter than the VT25, but we're supposed to somehow understand why the VT25 is superior.

Does this make sense to anyone? It seems to me that proper handling of 24p content, and better overall color reproduction alone would give the C8000 a tie with the VT25 at the very least. If you throw in better bright room performance, and a better de-interlacing system, it seems that this would tilt the scales in favor of the C8000. How can you not at least award the C8000 a 9.0 in performance when you talk about how it has reference quality color reproduction, the best bright room performance of any plasma ever, and a black level that is excellent and barely lighter than the Pioneer and the VT25. Furthermore, an 8.0 performance rating is identical to the rating you gave the C7000, and LG 8500/9500 although you frequently mention that this set outperforms all three of these. How does the C8000 not score a 9.0 performance rating? This seems like a cop out. You didn't want to give it the same performance score as the VT25 so you gave it the same rating as many other sets that you specifically state this television outperforms in all categories. I don't know, maybe it's just me, but this really doesn't seem to make any sense, and now I am even more confused when it comes to making a decision on which one of these televisions I should purchase.

Are you going to give the C8000 the editors choice? Have you considered changing the performance rating to a 9.0 when you factor in the victories over the VT25 in every other major category with the exception of black level performance?

Flawed review? You should probably do a little research also. I've owned this unit for approximately six weeks and could not be happier. Your comments sound very familiar to those posted on the avs forum. What people should do is view these television for there self as i did. The difference in blacks is never going to be noticed I viewed both TV's side by side in a normally lit showroom and yes the panasonic is darker, but put that TV in my living room and no way you can tell. The buzzing noise you speak of, yes its there and i can here it, sometimes, I've got to have the kids in bed, everything else in the house turned off and really be looking for it. A hand full of people post something about a buzz and it gets multiplied by thousands on forums. In my house its not a problem. My question to you is what difference does all this really make in enjoying your viewing experience. People you are putting way to much in to these stupid arguments that my TV has better this or that. The Panasonic is a great looking TV as well is the Samsung they both have there advantages. I purchased the Samsung PN63C8000 after several different stops to the local best buy and ultimate electronics. For me it came down to the overall great picture, black levels, internet apps, the vast adjustments in the service menu, the better looking style of the TV, and you should definitely try on both sets of 3D glasses I thought the Panasonics were horribly designed and just not comfortable enough to sit through an entire movie. You should also check the price about a thousand more for the Panasonic when I made my purchase. If anything I would put the Samsung hand down ahead of the Panasonic.

David,

A couple of other questions if you don?t mind answering or updating in your article.

What firmware was on the TV when reviewed?

There is evidence that suggests that black level slightly rises when Cinema Smooth is engaged. Did you notice this? Is it possible that you can publish the official black level measurements of both when Cinema Smooth is engaged vs when Cinema Smooth is off?

I agree with most of the points vihdeeohphiuhl has made. This is coming from someone that has owned both the VT25 for 3 weeks and the C8000 for over 6 weeks now. In my educated opinion all the positives of the C8000 that you pointed out in your review (color production, video processing, daytime viewing, etc?) I believe are undervalued in your review regarding performance points and should push the C8000 ahead of the VT25. I do understand that both the VT25 and C8000 are excellent TVs and either choice is excellent, however to me personally there seems to be some discrepancy with how much black level weighs in the point system. This is just my opinion and I don?t doubt that you have your reasons for how these televisions are evaluated.

The VT25 exhibits false contouring in more than 96 HZ mode and also exhibits quite a bit of video noise in HD sources. Also one thing that wasn?t mentioned in your review but has been mentioned in other professional reviews is that the VT25 exhibits unnatural and jerky pans. To me this was a very distracting element that the VT25 exhibited. In addition to all of this there is the question of whether the VT25 will withhold its black level. I realize that you are monitoring the potential of the VT25 black level rising, in which the black level has not risen yet. However how many performance points will the VT25 lose when the black levels do rise? Per Panasonics own admission said that black level WILL rise on the VT25. So along this logic if the VT25 loses black level it should not only drop performance points but potentially drop a full star?



Thanks!

Hello David,
We almost ordered the Samsung PN50C8000 3D Plasma HDTV.
I downloaded the user manual and found that 60 Hz was the refresh rate to set your PC to when using the TV as a monitor.
That is 10 times slower than the stated 600 Hz refresh.
The 240 Hz 3D LED LCDs are the same case, they recommend setting your PC refresh to 60 Hz.
Is this true for all models from all companies?
I have a 17 inch LCD from 2004 that at least is 75 Hz.
It seems that by now the refresh would be at least 120 Hz real frames,
(Not just interpolated between frames or re-flashing of the same image twice or 10 times)

The newest 3D LED LCDs claim 240 Hz refresh and the LG up and coming is claiming 480 Hz.
But if the 120 Hz monitors are telling you to set your
Nvidea or ATI card at only 60 Hz then they are fooling us with so called interpolated scenes that estimate something to throw between two (real) scenes.
This means that a minimum of 3 frames of lag will exist in order to create the interpolated screen.
So let?s say we are talking about game-play on the PC via DVI to HDMI.
I can find nothing on the market over 60 Hz that is at least 32 inch LED/LCD/Plasma.
Nividia recommends Mitsubishi for PC 3D.
Again I went to the Mitsubishi site and the manuals say 60Hz is what you set the video card at.

But for 3D to work they need 60 Hz for the left eye and 60 Hz for the right eye.
(120 Hz) so why do the TV manuals say to set the PC for 60 Hz?

I'm amazed and feel I must be missing something.
It would be nice to run PC games on a big display at a refresh greater than 75 Hz (my 17 inch 2004 LCD).

Any advice for this would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you,
Eric Shepherd

We almost ordered the Samsung PN50C8000 3D Plasma HDTV.
Regarding the 8000 series plasma screen PC to HDMI refresh setting.
For this model TV the specs call it a 600 Hz refresh.
The manual to the 8000 series plasma says to set your PC video card to a refresh rate to only 60 Hz.
Should it say to set the PC output refresh to 600 Hz?
Can the TV accept and display 600 frames per second if the computers video card can output 600 frames per second? If not 600 Hz Then what is the highest refresh (input to the TV).

Thank you David,
Eric

The problem is not the TV. It's the PC's video card can only output a max of 60hz. That's why the manual states to set the PC video card to 60hz. Some video cards allow setting the refresh rate lower.
This is a current problem when wanting to use your PC with a larger screen size. The maximum screen size for a flat screen monitor is about 27 inches right now. But users want larger screens with a PC so they look at LCD, LED and Plasma screen TVs. In theory the TV should work, but the PC cannot currently output beyond 60hz so it has to use that setting.