Deals and Bargains forum: Refurbished or recertified electronics safe to buy?

Late 2002, I bought a refurbished Dell Computer. After a few weeks the hard drive wouldn't boot up. So Dell sent me a new one and I reinstalled my operating system and programs. At times my CD recorder wouldn't appear. Long story short, the real problem was not the hard drive but the motherboard. I moved the hard drive to the secondary IDE controller and have the CD recorder on that controller configured as a slave. Haven't had a problem since. By the time I figured all this out the machine was out of warranty. But I still have the machine as a backup. I only replaced it last year when Windows 7 became available. My suggestion is try and get a fairly long warranty (like a year, which may be extended if you use a credit card) so that any problems not fixed will have time to show up. And then you have to hope that the technicians figure out the real probems.

It's true that, with a bit of luck, you can save money by buying refurbished. Personally, I've bought a Dell laptop, a Sanyo HD camcorder, an Apple headset, a white MacBook, and even a Patriot 16GB SDHC card refurbished. My experiences have been mixed. On the good side, I saved $40 on the Apple headset, which was in practically brand new condition, $20 on the SD card (which still works great), and a couple of hundred bucks on the Dell laptop (which lasted me two years and is still in good working condition today). On the bad side, the white MacBook had a bad logic board, and the Sanyo camcorder wouldn't record sound. Both had to be returned for repairs/replacement. I think it should be noted that (with the exception of the Apple headset) all of these products were refurbished by the manufacturer and either sold directly by the manufacturer or through Amazon.com. Also, I made certain that all of these products had a return policy, either for replacement or money back before I bought them. And, it's worth checking if you have to pay for return shipping too, as this can really cut into any savings you might accumulate.

I would not buy anything refurbished (or new for that matter) from an untrusted source. Make sure the source has good ratings from other customers first. In fact, it's best if you can find ratings on the particular product you're buying from said source, as these can indicate product quality/condition.
I would not buy anything refurbished by a 3rd party (not refurbished by the manufacturer). I'm sure other people can do it just as well, but they tend to offer less generous warranties.

So, on the whole and with a bit of caution, I'd say that yes, it is safe to buy refurbished electronics. Just make sure you know exactly what kind of guarantee the seller is offering and that they are a good source. And also, if you are going to be really disappointed and impatient if the product doesn't look or work right, it's probably best to just buy new. For instance, when I bought a MacBook Pro, I got it brand new because I didn't think I could stand it if there was a scratch on the lid or an issue with some component or other. It cost me more, but it was worth the extra money to me since I knew my new laptop would work perfectly and I could get right down to using it.

I deal in off lease and otherwise used computer equipment. I've done this for nearly 10 years. I don't take in or recycle equipment from individuals... electing to focus primarily on the equipment coming out of businesses. I offer for resale, used PC's & Servers. Some LCD monitors and a few printers each month. I generally don't handle laptops or other items for re-marketing. I've just found my niche and like it.

Used PC's offer a buyer a tremendous opportunity. They can get a machine for only a few dollars versus what it may have cost new. Most resellers offer warranties on the equipment and you can also purchase warranties for the equipment from third party companies such as Square Trade.

New computers are so inexpensive and well-made (like the Apple mini) that it doesn't make sense to buy an older one that's closer to obsolence.

But for listening to music, the older stuff made in the 70s and early 80s is so superior in quality to the newer stuff (except for some very expensive new units) that a good refurbed or working receiver will not only sound much better but will probably last longer than the new stuff. Ever since the "greed is good (for corporations)" era began in the Reagan years, manufacturers have dumbed down their gear and started using cheap crappy components. A simple test is lifting one up. The old ones with heavy capacitors and metal frames weigh a ton, while the "black plastic crap" (or "bpc" as the new stuff is commonly known among audiophiles) is light as a feather thanks to all the plastic parts inside and out, which will snap or warp.

The trick is shopping carefully and reading between the lines, but with a little research at the vintage audio forums will help any smart person figure out what to look for. The bigger more powerful receivers and fashionable brands are constantly rising in price but there are incredible bargains out there if you know what to look for. And with their beautiful silver faces and colored lights they look so much more charming and fun even to look at.

The same is true of speakers, in general. The old ones had bigger magnets and the engineers designing them were motivated to get the best sound. Today they're corporate hacks trying to keep their jobs by figuring out how to cut costs. Again using plastic cabinets instead of wood or thick composite that improved the sound.

The best of the older audio electronics were made in Japan in the 70s. The new stuff comes from China. Nuff said.

These are usually machines that have been used in offices on a lease. That means that they have received some form of maintenance through their previous usage-life.

Unless it's a Babbage Differential Engine, the chances are that the machine is still technologically useful, and better distributed for some cost recovery to a willing public than no return at all as land-fill.

It does depend on the company responsible for the "refurbishment". One can often find equipment from "eCycle" on eBay, but this is a churning house, and there is no warranty as to whether any purchase will be a working one. This is not a shot at eCycle----that's how they choose to run their business.

If you purchase a "refurbished" unit, it is most likely part of a "fleet" of identical machines. The company handling the machines will have restored the hard drive image to that of the original factory release, and the machine should arrive in your hands with a still valid COA for the OS, even if the restore discs are copies, like my HP: the restore partition on the HDD lets you make a back-up set of CDs or DVDs so that if the partition is wiped, you can still restore your machine.

My first involvement with a "refurbisher" who was "highly recommended" did not go down too well. I very specifically ordered two IDENTICAL machines. If you're going to back up your software, it makes sense to back up your hardware as well. When they arrived, I had a Toshiba 440CDX and 460CDT. I was furious! "Oh, but the 440 had extra RAM..." (which turned out to be faulty). Toshiba have always paid attention to the quality of their machines, and apart from the faulty additional memory, both machines are still in running condition today.

What you receive should be a good quality second-hand machine restored to as close to 'new' as possible. One machine may just need a wipe-over with a damp cloth and repackaging. Another may want a keyboard swapped out because of a broken cable, etc.. The company handling this will have a projected rate of loss to damaged equipment, and may well rely on that damaged equipment for other parts in order to honor their promised warranties. If 25% of incoming laptops have damaged screens, but the bodies are in perfect working order, then they have an excellent chance of reselling the remaining 75% of the machines, knowing that if a HDD fails, there are several thousand replacements to choose from. The more fussy the dealer is, the higher the price. One dealer may let a machine with scratches go out the door while another will say, "Swap this part of the case with one of the defective ones."

I now have a pair of HP/Compaq nx6320 machines, and externally the only differences are Serial Number and COA. Internally was a different matter. One is slightly faster and has a screen that does that weird resolution of 1280*1024, yet it came with 512MB of RAM while the slower machine had 1GB (No, these came from two competing sources so I did not expect them to be identical this time.) I checked with HP directly to find out that these machines could be upgraded to 4GB (done) and 250GB HDD (also done). They both have docking stations with Multi-Bay drives (why didn't they just use the same standard as the internal CD ROMs?)

The last laptop(s) to pass my way that had half-way decent keyboards were NEC Prospeed 386 machines (I still have the keyboards.). So whether I'm taking a Toshiba Satellite 460CDT to class for taking notes, or a HP Compaq nx6320 to a LAN party, I always have the appropriate cable for external keyboard and mouse!

These days, if you're going to dabble in the "refurbished" zone, you should expect:

DESKTOP
- Sturdy build mechanically,
- Anything less than a flatscreen LCD is unacceptable,
- There may be corporate ident tags remaining on the equipment, but if it just sat on a desk for three years, the casing should be in pretty good condition.

LAPTOP
- Pretty much as above,
- Don't expect the batteries to work (if even supplied),
- Make sure there is no visible battery leakage/damage,
- Check the back of the LCD panel for any signs of "hinge fatigue", which is usually first manifested as cracking above the hinges on the back of the plastic shell--decide whether you are going to pursue warranty over this or fix it yourself. I get two pieces of 1/4" by 1/2" aluminium strip cut to length and Araldite them straight up the back of the shell. Do it right, and it can look pretty stylish, and it transfers the stress past the cracked point to the hinge where it is supposed to go.

ON ALL MACHINES:
- Download and burn a CD of MEMTEST88. I have yet to find a working machine that can't run this disc and it will thoroughly check out all the memory available in the machine. It is capable of shifting itself to different parts of memory so that it can test ALL of it.
- Boot up (presumably Windows), and run a THOROUGH disc check.
- Using a simple PAINT program, display a complete screen each of Red, Green and Blue checking carefully for failed pixels, and check this against promised warranty. I believe that some manufacturers still permit up to eight faulty pixels before they'll replace a screen which, if true, means you can't expect the refurbisher to exceed that standard. Some apparently failed pixels can be reactivated by flashing them on and off, and in some cases, even a light tap with a finger tip.

As cited, I've had good and bad experience with "refurbished" laptops but, in both cases, it was the companies that needed to be researched NOT the computers.

It really depends on how comfortable you are with the hardware. If you know your stuff, and can say with authority to the vendor, "My hard drive is faulty. I want a fresh one sent out immediately, and I'll post this one back in your packaging," then be not afraid of a refurbished machine.

If, on the other hand, you are going to be dependent on outside tech support for anything that goes wrong, spend the extra on a new machine. It really is a matter of confidence.

The only "laptops" I have purchased new were "netbooks" and if I could go back in time and tell myself to leave the damned things on the shelf, I would!

The fact that a product has been "remanufactured" or "refurbished" is really not where the risk lies. Such hardware has been returned at various points along the warranty time line, and in each case the glitch is fixed and the product is tested as if it were just manufactured. Thus, there is no more risk than there is when buying a new one -- as far as the reason it was returned is concerned. The only risk being taken in purchasing refurbished hardware is the fact that it has been used -- for up to a year -- when it arrives at your door; so naturally there is a greater chance that another problem will develop much sooner than it would have had it not been used before you buy it. Personally, I have had about the same luck buying these units as I have with buying new, the clincher being that I can buy two refurbished ones for the price of a single new one. I say the risk is well worth it.

I have bought a refurbished Compaq computer from Costco.com back in 2005, & it lasted me 5 years. The included monitor still work though. I got plenty of use out my Compaq for 5 years. It worked like it did out of the box. The model exceeded some specifications at the time I was looking for: dual DVD burners, 250gb hard drive (new pc's have 320 at the lowest level with 1tb at the high level, but 250gb was a lot for 2005), & a 2.4ghz processor. I was only looking for a 15" LCD monitor, but the price of the package allowed me to go with a 17" monitor. The power supply & motherboard finally gave out on the computer.

While my new computer I'm using right now is a laptop I bought brand new, I have plans to one day get another refurbished computer that I plan to get, just to create an entertainment computer. I have plans to load all my movies & upcoming TV shows from DVD to the computer. I also plan to add a TV tuner card to the computer, & record shows as well.

I plan to use Tiger Direct for my next purchase, because of good experiences with purchases I made with them.

Another refurbished item I bought was a Samsung camcorder from amazon.com. The only problem was a nick on the camera, but the camera worked like it was new. While I would have preferred an HD camera in black, it does give me the option of recording in widescreen, but in SD, as well as full screen (the dimension of the old TV screens), but settled for one in red.

As with any recertified or or refurbished electronics, look at reputable retailers (online or brick & mortar), look at the model number of the electronic items you're interested in, & do a search online to see if that item has been overall reliable, or one that has been plagued with defects. After you decide what you have in mind, try to buy it while supplies last. Retailers don't necessarily keep a supply of recertified ot refurbished electronic items of the same item at all times. That's one drawback to them.

I think it's safe to buy refurbs, as long as they come with some sort of warranty. I bought my 42" panasonic G25 Plasma used/recertified off of amazon and I have had no problems with it. I did buy an onkyo receiver used as well, and I had an issue with HDCP that was not related to the product being recertified, and was able to return it within amazon's 30 day return window and order a Pioneer unit that was also recertified by amazon's warehouse. I have also had no problems with this unit. Additionally, I bought a linksys E2000 wireless n router recertified as well as a wireless adapter that were refurbished, and have had great luck with them. They even came in special packaging for refurbished units, along with documentation that said they were refurbished. Based on all of these experiences, I would recommend buying refurbs as often as possible as long as you are saving more than about 10% off of retail. I would also recommend going through amazon as they offer a 30 day return policy on most of the items they sell, and you can also get squaretrade extended warranties through them that will cover any problems after the initial 30 days. Hope this helps

I have just lost use of my Western Digital 1TB external hard drive. A power interruption apparently "fried" the USB connection circuit board. It was bought NEW with a 1 year warranty. I have had it 18 months.

I bought a refurbished 22" CRT Monitor and had problems with the display within the brief warranty period. The supplier had me return it & sent me an exact replacement. A bit inconvenient to have to wait for shipment both ways. The replacement also shortly went bad. They said return it and they would send yet another. I asked, "Why would I want another of these?" with the problems with the first two. They volunteered to send me a BRAND NEW 23", which I still use with my back up computer 8 years later.

For the most part a refurbished electronic is an item that has been returned by the first buyer for WHATEVER reason. It has been factory inspected and brought to factory standards before being offered for re-sale (IF the reseller is being straight forward.) True... it is NOT new, but is LIKE new. My credit card doubles the shortened warranty.

BOTTOM LINE: I have had as many problems with NEW electronics as I have with REFURBISHED. I'd rather pay the lesser refurbished price until MY EXPERIENCE with refurbished indicates it is not a good idea.

I used to work for a major global electronics company and every year they offer refurbed notebooks(NB) at a good discount to their exployees. The NBs are usually only a few months old and therfore they are still under the warranty for the remaining one year period (usually about 7 to 8 months). I have made two purchases over the past few years but one NB was a major pain. Appearently the NB in question had an unkown problem with the display. The display becomes suddenly became blurry and shaky beyond readability after about 8 months. After days of monitoring the service center decided that there was a problem with the display, so it was replaced free of charge. After another 8 months the same problem occured, this time the mother board was replaced free of charge. The third time occured again after 5 or 6 months later and the service center said that the the LCD needs to be replaced at a cost of $300. Well I went for a second opinion to a fellow acquaintance who repairs compatables PCs. What do you know a $30 replacement of the VGA module did the trick. Well this is not the end of the story. After about a year later the LCD totally died and this time it went into the trash can. 3 years of hardship for a $350 discount for refurbed NB. The other refurbed NB I bought earlier gave me no problem at all. So in my experience I have a mere 50% success rate. I now no longer purchase REFURBS!!!!!!

Where do you buy your refurbs? Every (seriously without exception) refurb or recertified product I look at has exactly the same manufacturers warranty, as new. If it has been recertified by the manufacturer, the warranty is the same.

6 years ago I purchased a "refurbished" Brother laser all in one printer from a reseller who handles factory refurbs from manufacturers. Imagine my surprise when I opened the box and found the original note from the original purchaser who thought because the printer scanned in color, that it printed in color (it did not because it was a B+W printer). So this customer returned his faulty printer without even plugging it in. I got a great deal and the best printer I have ever owned. Even though this is not often the case, it does happen.

Ive had many a refurbish or certified product with very little problems,the desk top I'm on now is a refurbished dell I bought in 2005,my only suggestion is compare the price to make sure your saving money,sometimes if its only a couple dollars you may as well get it new,you might end up sending it back only to get a replacement refurbish item

I love to get ads for reconditioned or "re-certified" products to buy, because that way I can cross them off my list of things to consider buying. If a company has so many returns that they have to market them that way, then there is some kind of problem. I fully understand that even the best-made product is going to end up in the hands of an idiot, and will end up getting returned. No company is going to be immune to the OCCASIONAL return. But when they have so many that they have to off them to a third party--that's a warning to the wise consumer. Be especially careful if you are buying something with moving parts. Something else to consider is what else happened to the product--what else did the customer do--that the company didn't find out about, like, duh, maybe the customer spilled Coke on it or something. I had trouble with a new Playsport I bought not long ago from a well-known chain store, not with the device itself, but the fact that it had obviously been returned, since the charger, etc., did not fit it and one piece was missing. The replacement they gave me had a piece of chocolate bar in the package, with chocolate smears here and there to boot, and there was something missing from THAT box. I finally got a "complete" product that works, but do you really want to take the chance that some imbecile was the one who had the product first, and that the company may not have fixed it right, not to mention the possibility that you may be, unknowingly, a beta tester for that piece of hardware? Go ahead and pay full price and relax.