Deals and Bargains forum: Refurbished or recertified electronics safe to buy?

Typically a 'refurbished' item is one sent back not because of damage, but because the buyer didn't like it afterall, or buyers remorse, sometimes because buyer didn't know how to use it.

The reason i say it could be better than brand new off the shelf is because you know it has been thoroughly tested, unlike items on the shelf which only have samples tested with every 1000 or so.

If the item was damaged, the damage has been repaired, and again, thoroughly tested. Also, many refurbs come with at least 30 to 90 day warranty, if not a full manufacturer warranty (if refurbished by the manufacturer).

I have a refurb Lumix DMC FZ50 (3yrs old now), a refurb desktop computer (husbands, and 2 yrs old) and a few other items, and have had zero problems whatsoever.

Untrue. Both the camera and computer had full manufacturer warranty. Other refurb items at 90 day warranties, and I have had some of them for 5 yrs now, without a single problem. And I saved a heck of a lot more than just a 'few bucks'.

"Refurbished" is a crap shoot. Refurbished products come from a variety of sources. A perfectly functioning item may be returned because the original purchaser simply changed his mind. There may have been nothing at all wrong with it. It may have an intermittent problem that does not immediately make its presence known. It may have an overheating problem and work fine for a few minutes, then completely quit working and is returned for that reason. The refurbisher, in most cases, only tests the product and checks that the packaging is complete. If there is a blown fuse, for instance they will replace the fuse and see if it subsequently blows. If not - into the box it goes only to blow again 30 minutes after you plug it in and start using it. After saying all this, in my experience, the odds are with you in the long run, tho. Not every device that you buy "refurbished" will be a defective device. You're going to get several good ones for every bad one you get, but expect a bad one every now and then.

The best way to buy something refurbished is to check the warrenty. If its a three month warrenty, thats bad, if it's a year or better, thats good. Most warrenties on new products is one year, anything lower then that on refurbished means the product had problems within the warrent period. The year warrenty usually means it was likely just opened and for what reason it was taken back and is still like new.

I almost always buy refurbished rather than brand new. I've never used eCost.com, though. When I buy refurbs, I buy them from the manufacturer's official outlet, either from their website or from their Amazon store or the like. The MacBook Pro I'm writing this on is a refurbished unit. My iPod and iPhone are both refurbs, as well. My Garmin GPS is a refurb, too. I've always had good luck with them. You'll notice that the brands I'm buying are brands that are already known for being reliable, I'm sure that makes a difference. Any refurbished unit should be restored to original factory settings and come with the same factory warranty as any brand new product. If it meets those criteria, it should be fine to use.

I am speaking as an electronics Tech here. In other words, I used to fix those types of things.

Re-certified and/or refurbished can mean different things to different manufacturers. Basically the idea here though is that a device came back to the manufacturer under the warranty period and it was tested, repaired and reboxed and resold as "refurbished" or "recertified". The latter definition came later as the former got a bad reputation.

Understand that as a manufacturer, they can only spend so much time fixing a unit or else they lose money on it. So, the testing periods are a specific length, as is the time a tech can actually work on a unit. IF they can't fix it in time, then it gets trashed. Or you hope it does. This becomes important later.

This is where the iffy part comes in. If the unit originally tested "ok" then it gets boxed up and sold. These NPFs, or "no problem found" devices are where they really make their dough, but they HAD to come in for a reason right? Sometimes it's just an anal customer that doesn't know how a device works and it gets sent in for replacement. No problem there. The problem rests in those devices that ARE defective, but are "quirky". In other words, they fail unpredictably and only occasionally. These are the ones that are going to slip through the repair process, get sold to you, and cause anything from a minor annoyance (like a refurbished HP camera I had to reboot every hour or so) to a total pain in the butt (a weak component that fails--almost always outside of the 90 day warranty). Of the five devices I've bought refurbished over the years, three had those "quirks".

Caveat Emptor.

A refurbished unit is one that has failed, been returned to "Like New" condition by someone, preferably the product factory.
When units are re-certified, that means a lot or batch of a product was sold to an original business and were certified by the manufacturer for that business to sell. Then that business either had overstock or went out of business. The units then are returned to the original factory and were "Re-Certified" and re-sold to another business. These units never failed and in most cases the original boxes were never even opened the first time around.

I have had a positive experience with a "refurbished" HP laptop bought from Tigerdirect(which also runs Compusa. com and Circuitcity.com, FYI). It was supossedly part of a large shipment of laptops that a major company had rejected, some had been "opened for inspection" and they all were lumped together as such and sold far below retail, so I trust refurbished and recertified products from Tigerdirect and family, and any other retailer/e-tailer under similar circumstances.

Buying refurbished means different things depending on where you're buying from. In the instance you're referring to it's likely some defect was found, it was returned to the manufacturer, fixed and sent back out. But there are also lots of places that sell refurbished PCs and other computer components where the item is refurbished by the organization selling the item.

As the head of one such organization I'll echo what a lot of people have already pointed out - sometimes you get a gem, sometimes a dud. Even with a very extensive amount of Quality Assurance our organization still lets the odd PC slip with a defect that doesn't surface until it's been used for a bit by the client. (e.g. a hard drive that passes the manufacturer's test but fails shortly after) The key is making sure you're comfortable with where you're getting the item from and making sure they have some kind of warranty (whether it's exchange or return) AND... getting the defective item back as soon as you start to have problems with it.

Buying used can be a great experience and save a tonne of money depending on the refurbisher. Some are in it for the profit, some are part of not-for-profits, others for the environment.

If you're going to spend a few hundred dollars on something used I would make sure I google around to find any manufacturer defects the product might have originally had. Some models of notebook for example have a serious motherboard problem that surfaces only months after use (which might make it out of warranty).

I used to work in an electronics store, and we had a lot of 'factory refurbished' hp. We found that about half were dead out of the box and quite a few more came back dead soon after sale. Most of the time it was because they put in the wrong part (e.g. underpowered power supply) or had just pulled parts from the reject pile. We even had one that on the top of the inner box was written "Defective - return to factory", so they'd not touched it at all. I'm sure other brands screw up the same way, but hp was the worst by a long shot.

Also, be careful with the original warranty. Some brands (notably Apple) start the warranty clock when it's first sold. If you get one that's been in the system a while you might have lost the first year or more, even though it's 'like new'. The manufacturer will fix it if you notify them, but a lot of stores and a lot of customers don't bother.

In answer, one must first distinguish what a refurbished, factory refurbished, or recertified electronic component is. As a person who worked electronics retail for 20 years, have quite a bit of insight into this "problem" area. I also have MS in Computer Electronics and have run computer repair shops, as well as owned my own computer support business.

Most of us have been in a retailer (Walmart is a good example) where you'll find repackaged products being sold at discount. These are usually items that have been sold, used, and then brought back by the first purchaser. While some may still have all the warranty information, one needs to use caution, as the warranty period may have been activated by the first purchaser, and when you re-register your purchase, it does not reset the start date. Some other retailers do their best to repackage products to make them appear NEW, never been sold. One way to spot a repacked item, when the external box looks untouched, is to look at internal plastic bags that contain cables, instructions books (look for fingerprints, smudges, stains on any printed material, paper envelope containing computer CD) has been torn open

Any manufacturer refurbished or recertified electronics has been returned by the retailer to the manufacturer. It is then cleaned up, significant cosmetic "flaws" are buffed out, and missing parts replaced. Any installation software CDs are checked for defects. Computer hard drives are returned to factory state (usually they remove existing hard drive, install one with NEW state software so you have to wait for it to "setup". If you buy a computer that the Operating system runs without going thru some sort of setup/install, a good indication it was pre-sold).

When I was in retail, sold several brands of computers and their associated components. As some new systems were coming into the market, manufacturer representatives would come into our area to "train" the retail staffs on the new product. We'd get a chance to actually "play" with the computers before they were available for sale to the general public. After those field reps were done, those computers were refurbished by the manufacturer, and were then sold at a significant discount. Some electronic chips have usage "clocks" built in that tell the manufacturer how many hours the product has been used. Once a particular "time point" has been met, product can no longer be sold as new (you can't buy a new car with odometer reading of 0, they all have some mileage on them).

Now the down side. On several online BID sites, you find refurbished or recertified electronics. The seller does NOT state who refurbished or recertified the hardware. Ran into one site where the individual was selling computers as being refurbished. All he did was reformat the hard drive, reinstalled windows and whatever drivers he could find, but the rest of the software that originally came on the computers was missing.

There are also reliable retail sites (Geeks) that will specify what equipment they sell that is factory/manufacturer refurbished/recertified.

So as with any purchase, one should always remember "Buyer Beware!". Know who you're dealing with, check several online "complaint" sites before making a final decision. An educated/researched buyer is a safer buyer.

The author really did not give an opinion as to whether or not it is a good idea to purchase refurbished products. He only stated what various conditions meant and that some may not be what is advertised which is helpful but still does not attack the core question.

Having been in the industry for 18 years and now solely operating an Independent Cellular Phone Repair/Refurbish store, I would like to shed some light on my end of this discussion.

As far as the Cellular Industry is concerned, this is probably one of the most scamming areas in what has become a shady Industry. I believe one of the writers here stated "It depends on the refurbisher"; this has never been more true; and the larger the company it seems, the more likely to be scammed. Let me explain.

The first ten years of my cellular career was spent mainly in the activations end. I've done well over 15k new activations, and as many upgrades. When insurance started being offered in the mid to late 90's, it was done through a company named Lockline. At first it was a great program. Customers were FedExed their replacement phone, sometimes overnight. Somewhere around the late 90's we started noticed a lot of problems with these warranty and insurance replacements; at times the replacement phone had MORE problems than the original phone sent in. Somewhere around 1998 or 1999 I found out why. As a major SP (Service Provider) Dealer, if I sold a customer a new phone on a new activation, the customer had 30 days to return it through me. One way to return it was called "Buyer's Remorse". This meant the customer did not like the phone, or decided the SP was not right for them. Originally the phone had to have less than 30 minutes on the Talk timer, but later this was not a variable. Either way with Buyer's Remorse, me the Dealer had to fill out a one page form, check Buyer's Remorse and show it was returned within the 30 day limit. We then sent the phone back and received a refund back into our equipment account within the next 30 days; thus not offsetting the all important Equipment to Commissions balance (Commissions were paid on the previous month. HOWEVER, if the phone had any kind of a technical problem, we had to fill out up to a 5 page report, show dates and times we contacted the SP's Tech Support, and exactly what we did to try and fix the problem. I believe we originally had to try various (Ridiculous) solutions and WAIT 24 hours in between each solution to see if it fixed the problem. Once we were granted the Return, we boxed it up with an RMA (Return Merchandise Authorization) number given by Tech Support and then didn't get our funds put back in our equipment accounts for 90 days; most of the times it was much longer. Knowing these two scenarios, what do you think most Dealers (Including myself I must say) stated the situation with the phone was? That's right, Buyer Remorse; even the phones with obvious problems. It was my theory that the SP would give these Buyer Remorse phones to the Insurance Company (Lockline) and Lockline would not even check them out and send them out as replacement phones for warranty and insurance. It wasn't until 1990; I actually had a good customer of mine come in with her "New" replacement phone having a very distinct problem I noticed a few months earlier and sent in as a Buyer's Remorse return. Sure enough, I checked the ESN and it was that exact phone. This happened at least two other times. Because of the SP's policy, the Dealer was forced to send ALL phones in as Buyers Remorse or we would be forced to float thousands of dollars we didn't have, up to 6 months. Because Lockline was such a sham, they didn't even bother to check the phones out. They would look on the outside, replace any housing that needed replacement, put new LCD and Housing protective tape on it, and send it out to the Customer. When the customer got the phone, they were under the assumption it was a brand new phone. Meanwhile, they got a broken phone that was never fixed.

With the amount of "New" Refurbished phones I have coming into my repair shop that were just sent out through the insurance company OR warranty company to unsuspecting customers, I have NO reason to believe this practice has not changed, only perfected. I have seen customers forever curse whole model lines because the phones "Suck" or "It was the worst phone ever" when all it was was a broken phone being sent each time. Merely replacing a housing is the LEAST important part of refurbishing a phone; but it is the cheapest. IT an industry wide practice by most refurbishing companies except the "Old School" smaller stores such as myself who have a reputation to uphold and can't handle a lot of rework, and return, volume; but ONLY if that small store does their OWN bench work and refurbishing. I have also seen a lot of these smaller companies just simply wipe down the phone and call it refurbished; meanwhile the mother board has water damage, physical damage, high hours(Another VERY important variable you must know on any refurbished phone, how much prior use it had), or a combination of all three.

After awhile the largest Dealers such as myself, complained so much about Lockline, the major SP's (Who all used Lockline) finally got rid of them in 2004-2005. They brought on a new company called Asurian. "Asurian was going to change everything and get it right" They told us. Soon we noticed the same **** different company. Nothing changed. I then took it a step further and wanted to find out more about this new company Asurian. I looked through the Wall St Journal online and in other places. Asurian, as it turns out, was an LLC (Smart, because Lockline was getting sued a lot by customers). As I delved deeper into this mystery I discovered the obvious; Asurian was owned by a different company. You guessed it, Lockline. Nothing changed and I still see it today. If this is the largest refurbisher in the country, with contract with all the big SP's, what do you think the smaller companies are doing to keep up? Like I said, This is the biggest scam in an already shady industry; you just have to be an "Old School" Tech to know it. Caveat Emptor, let the buyer beware, is alive and well in the Cellular Industry.

I have been buying Dell refurbs for years and never had a problem. I saved a lot of money and got quality PC's at a much cheaper price.

New manufactured items are checked on what is known as an AQL level which in a nutshell means one item out of so many are checked for quality and performance and that qualifies the entire lot. Items refurbished by the manufacturor are checked 100% so the likelyhood of getting a device that works out of the box is much better. There are some exceptions of course, but Refurb is better in at least one area, PRICE! And if it doesn't work they will replace it just like the new one. How can you go wrong?