Buzz Out Loud Lounge forum: BOL broken, lets fix it

How about a timer, like Pardon the Interruption, that rings at an interval and then they move to the next topic.

I don't think BOL or the BOL forum is busted.
I don't appreciate all the negative-energy/anger (from listeners, the BOL hosts, or otherwise) either. Constructive criticism is always preferred and respect for everyone's opinion should be a standard, in my opinion.

News of fantastic or horrible products or services are of interest, but jumping *all over* a company for an isolated case, one-time event, or similar incident is, in my opinion, demanding more than what can be sustainable. It'll depend on your tolerance whether you consider what Apple did as a one-time event or part of their behavior - anytime something gets really popular, criticism goes up as well (consider Google of 5yrs ago and now...the same could happen with Linux).
I don't think Apple did the right thing to drop the price this soon - maybe in October/November would have been fine, also giving more reasoning as to *why* the price drop happened would also lower my ire at the company.

Well, I don't want to add any more negative stuff to the forum or the community so I think I'll take break from the forums and podcast for a few days - as the ancient, tried and true saying goes,"...And this too, shall pass."

Have a wonderful weekend - all of you,
Shalin

p.s. Arborond, sorry if this deflates your energy about "fixing BOL" go forth and fix away if you'd like. I'd just like to caution you about knowing what it's like when it *works right* in the first place and then fixing only what's not working - ya know? Have fun, honest! :o)

I too am disappointed with the decline of BOL since Veronica's departure and Molly's return. It seems the show now is all about opinion and little on news. I understand that it isn't a "hard" news show, but the ranting and opining has gone overboard, and in my opinion Molly is to blame.

First, a disclaimer. I own Macs and I prefer them over WIndows products. However, I am objective about things. I didn't buy an iPhone because I felt it was too expensive. I'm also using a 4 year old PowerBook because I'm waiting for the new models to have something revolutionary, not evolutionary as the initial Intel MacBook Pros have been. The point is I don't jump when Steve says to. I make my own mind up when to buy something, and it has to be worth its price to get me to spend the money.

Kudos to Tom for pointing out that you *DON'T* have to buy a product if you think it isn't worth the money. However, Molly, you want to crucify the company when the consumers are the ones who make the decision on whether to pull the trigger on a purchase. No, Apple was wrong to drop the price this early in the game so drastically, but there are economic forces at play in this issue (the new iPod Touch for example) that kind of forced their hand. They *HAD* to introduce the new iPod (remember Ms. Wood, you've been berating Apple for their boring iPod line, saying that it needed a shake-up) and it *HAD* to be done before Christmas. So, to keep the iPhone relevant, the price drop had to happen, plus Nokia's N95 is entering the market and Apple had to meet that competition head on. One other point, BOL has been discussing the NAND flash memory shortage that has been developing after a fire in a Samsung plant earlier this year. Molly's initial reaction and review of the iPod Touch was where's the 32 Gb model? Well, if you had been keeping up with this important story Molly, you would know that Apple has 25% of the ENTIRE flash memory production bottled up, and with the constraints from the fire and other forces in the flash memory production processes, I think they've done pretty good getting a 16Gb iPod out the door, not to mention that the 32 Gb flash memory is prohibitively expensive now.

Well, that's off my chest, now on to fixing BOL. I come from a broadcasting background and in j-school, I was taught that my main job is to be objective and not let my personal feelings get in the way of a story. Molly lets this happen all of the time. Yes, it seems as if Apple is her whipping boy, but she also shows too much opinion on other important issues too. I think opinion is fine, but it needs to be cut back on this show. It seems as if 90% of BOL is rants and opinion now, and that isn't serving the audience well. It's your job BOLers to make your audience aware of the issues of the day and LET THEM DECIDE based on FACTS what their opinion on the subject should be. That's what good journalism SHOULD be and God knows we have so little of that anymore in the mainstream press where it's all about spin. So, cut back on the opinions, especially Molly.

Second, a third host is needed a la Veronica. Yes, she was an Apple fan girl, but she did a good job keeping things in perspective and entertaining on the show. If you're gonna let Molly go off as a loose cannon, then have someone on there to try and keep the thing reeled in like Veronica used to do.

Third, have guests on the show to bring in other viewpoints. You have done this in the past, but they are few and far between. It's much more interesting if you can have a guest who is involved with the main story.

One of my biggest criticiams of CNet in general is how they eschew the live interview with the newsmaker and let the journalist deliver his/her interpretation of what the newsmaker has been saying. I feel that does a dis-service to the audience by both introducing bias into the reporting (see the opinion rant above) plus makes me feel as if they can't trust me to listen to Larry Ellison or Linus Torvalds or whomever is in question. This is radio/TV CNet, not a newspaper. Radio/TV has recorded audio and video for stories. You need to step up and deliver that style of content, instead of having your "journalists" tell us what they feel is important.

I unsubscribed to MP3 Insider after Veronica left because Jasmine is so anti-iPod it isn't funny. She is just all the time trying to find something to stick the players with so she can hype others that she stretches the criticisms beyond the point of sensibility. Again, I'm fine with CONSTRUCTIVE criticism about a product, but MP3 Insider hasn't had an objective opinion on the iPod in a long time. Molly does much of the same in her presentations on CNet, and if BOL doesn't lose some attitude, then they will lose another listener in me.

I just hate to see this show denigrate into what it has become. I used to look forward to listening to it daily. Now, I just dread to hear Molly rant. Please BOL, do something!

I don't think the recent problems with the cast have anything to do with veronica being gone. I never thought she added much at all. She either chimmed in with the completely obvious or chimmed in with complete nonsense and uninformed thoughts. Personally I'm glad she is gone, I wish her well but I didn't enjoy listening to her.

That said I do think having a third personality would help. Maybe they are slowing working Jason into the mix.

tim

I suggest you go listen to MacBreak Weekly or ApplePhone Show or TWIT or follow Kevin Rose around all day.

For those who do, there are plenty of other podcasts out there. This can't be the only one you listen to, I listen to over a hundred per week. It's my substitute for talk radio.

There are many podcasts out there that just don't cut it. BOL has always made me laugh out loud, and there's nothing wrong with giving suggestions to make it cooler.

If I just wanted to listen to news, yes there are many podcasts out there that'll do it. But BOL is special.

IMHO the TWIT podcast have a Pro-Apple balance, which may suite you. It's all pro Mac and Apple, even on "Windows Weekly" they talk about Apple and the Mac. They're all mac fans, so they won't criticize unless something is really egregious and the general feeling in the Mac community.

Scott Bourne on the MacBreak two weeks ago even argued that hacking the iPhone was 'immoral'! It takes an extremist to make the rest look more center..

Most of the guys on TWIT mainly use Macintosh and in some case only use Apple software. To counterpoint, they talk about the irrelevant Zune, instead of the tons of devices from Sandisk, Samsung, Archos, because they don't know them. They're all into the Apple Lifestyle. Of course it doesn't lead to serious criticism when you only have anecdotal (or cartoonish!) knowledge of non-apple things.
TWIT was even feature on an ad on Apple.com

p.s.: Leo runs Windows on OS X through Parallel Desktop and owns about 20 iPods, the Apple TV, the iPhone, etc. That's how 'normal' and balanced these guys are.. they're not seeing things from the point of view of normal people who aren't that into Apple.

you make a very good point. I love TWIT but enjoyed BOLs faster moving (shorter) format back when BOL was fun and informative. Now it kinda fells like standing by while an irate, unreasonable customer bullies a poor shop clerk who has no recourse but to sit and take it and has no power to do anything about the original problem.

I said that it was ok to criticize Apple, just don't get hysterical.

You know PBS not Randy Rhodes.

or if you're a Fox fan.

Chris Wallace not Bill O'Reily.

I wonder if it would help to include a new host who is "outside the (tech) beltway" Someone who could better judge what the average geek cares about and know how passionate to get relative to the interest level.
Comments?

Would Jason in fact restore balance to the BOL force?
What say ye?

good idea! After all, what's the point of trying to counter-point vof example the Apple Appologists or fanboys? It's not going to convince anyone. You have to bring new facts, or have some funny spin about it. Otherwise you're repeating yourself and you can't win.

The trouble is Apple is often important/influential in the tech landscape. If they don't cover Apple there will be a big hole in the coverage. I agree it might boost the fun factor though.

With such an uninformed, biased opinion about Apple, I unfortunately found it quite difficult to read the rest of your post. Nevertheless I suffered through.

You are no more tied in to Apple once you buy a Mac then you are tied in to Microsoft when you buy any of the thousands of variants of PCs that ALL run on their Windoze OS.

As for overpriced, you get what you pay for, and the Mac OS makes the extra cost of the machine well worth it. Windows XP has only caused me frustration and woe, and i marvel at how Windows users (apparently yourself included) either don't realize how bad an OS it is or are so used to the crappy way it runs that you don't seem to know any better and obliviously put up with it.

I agree with earlier comments about having Molly tone down her Mac-hating tirades and having BOL try to include fewer Apple articles (as too many such articles cause too much bitching and moaning by the Mac-hating masses). A third speaker would also be a good idea, as even though Tom has a nice way of toning down Molly's anti-Apple rants, these rants still leave the listeners with a 'bad taste in the mouth' (or perhaps a harsh tone in the ear?).