Community Newsletter: Q&A forum: 4/22/05 Should I buy or build a computer?

I am amazed! It appears Griffin is the only participant even close to hitting the nail on the head here...

When you buy that PROPRIETARY junk from Dull (or whoever), you are saddled with THEIR version of an OS, THEIR version of drivers, THEIR version of upgrade paths, THEIR version of customer support, and THEIR version of the prices you will pay for service, support, or upgrades! And no, you will not have a pure Windows operating system, you will have a bloat that you will not be able to troubleshoot every time on your own. When the warranty runs out, you will not only be put on hold for hours at a time when you go to them for help, you will also be paying THEIR prices for what little help they might be able to offer.

Whether it's about saving money at the moment of purchase, or (especially) in the long run, or "satisfaction in building your own", or whatever other criteria... your own generic system is flat the best route to go.

Lee, there are probably many people counting on you for sound advice, how could you possibly have chosen that answer? It only addresses the tip of the iceberg on this topic and does not do a novice proper service at all.

What so many posters on this board are failing to understand, is that buying off the shelf does not necessarily buying a proprietary name brand like Dell or HP/Compaq. Many retailers offer "generic" pre-builts, using non-proprietary parts, offering all the service advantages of building yourself. These are priced so agressively these days, hoping to cash in on ancillary sales (software, add-on components, etc.) that it's nearly impossible to save money building it yourself. I can go down to my local Fry's Electronics and get their "house brand" for *less* than the cost of the individual components. I've added up exactly, down to the make/model of the motherboard, and they are selling it for less as a pre-built system.

Still, I recommend building your own at least once, just for the knowledge and satisfaction. Plus, it'll make upgrading down the road (adding new drives, etc.) far less daunting for a beginner.

When somebody uses the P word(Prporietary), it tells me they have no clue what they are talking about. It also tells me they have NO vision OR experience. When I got a compaq 8 years ago, I was told that I coundn't upgrade the audio, video, HDD, or the RAM because it was PROPRIETARY! B.S. from so called experts and custom builders. They were wrong. I was told by these so called experts that my Dell 8300 pwr supply and mobo
are proprietary. Guess what? Wrong again! people that use the word proprietary have a "It can't be done" attitude that really ticks me off. Sure there are going to be limits to how far you can upgrade, but that mostly depends on what you start with.

Currently I have 3 Dells, a Toshiba, a Gateway and 2 custom built systems(yes I built them!)AND THEY ALL PERFORM FLAWLESSLY with various off the shelf upgrades.
In the past 5 years, computer manufacturers have been forced to make their systems more compatible with off the shelf parts because it costs less to buy something that is already available than to engineer it from scratch.

And would somebody PLEEEEASE tell me what a proprietary operating system is! As far as I know 1 copy of windows xp home edition full version is around $200 AND THE LISCENSE IS ONLY GOOD FOR ONE COMPUTER!JUST LIKE THE OEM DISK THAT COMES WITH THE BLOATED EXTRAS THAT CAN BE VERY EASILY REMOVED(See Add/Remove Programs).

If you look inside a Dell 8400 you will find THE SAME parts that you will pay a lot more for if you bought them seperately(Intel, ati/nvidia, creative, etc)that are totally upgradable. AND you get a dual layer/format DVD burner AND LCD monitor for well under $1000 - the fact is: YOU CAN'T COME CLOSE TO THAT BUILDING IT YOURSELF!!!

So do yourself a favor when someone uses the "p" word - walk away!

Proprietary;
Owned by a private individual or corporation under a trademark or patent:

Well, if you look at all the ads on this site from computer manufacturers it makes sense that cnet chose that answer. You cannot review DIY computers... and no one pays bigs bucks for banners for ide cables...

Based on your post I might just build my next computer on my own.

D

There is only one risky thing to do in building your computer yourself: Attaching the processor to the motherboard and fitting the heatsink. The rest is quite easy. Most computer shops i know of (here in belgium anyway) will do that for you for a small fee of $ 6-7 for that small fee you get the guarantee that if something goes wrong INTEL or AMD can't blame it on you (user abuse) - which happens quite a lot -because the fitting has been done by a qualified technician. And believe me you easily bend a pin on a processor and that is not easily bent back, mostly it wrecks your new processor.

Another thing BEWARE for static electricity. ALWAYS touch a piece of UNPAINTED metal before touching anything in your computer.

Work with unmagnetized screwdrivers, those things will kill your computer.

If your computer is quite old, you havn't learned to worry about cooling.
1) Buy a big enough case, this will keep your temperature low. The ideal temperature of a computer is 30-50 degrees, the higher your avarage temperature the quicker wear out.
2) Outside your case: your case should have 30-50 cm around which are free of anything it needs to be able vent it's hot air but the hot air needs to be replaced by something: be air from outside the case.
3) do a little investment (of $10-15) and ask the computer shop to apply Arctic Silver 5 it will increase the heat conductivity of the connection between your processor and your heatsink, giving you a cooler processor.

If you take care of these things: Have fun with your computer. I think it very rewarding to build your computer from scratch. You learn a lot of it and you don't depend on telephone no-helpdesks anymore.
I am not quite sure of the savings but the thing is you are certain of every component being in good order.

One more thing when in doubt stick to a brand. This doesn't mean your computer has to be of the same brand in all its components. It does mean if you have to choose between a non brand and a brand component and you're not sure go for the brand one. The brand mostly means 'guarantee of a minimum quality'. It is like an insurance you also pay for something you most likely won't collect but what if...

Recommendations
ASUS for motherboard
INTEL or AMD find that out for yourself: overview
INTEL has a virtual dual core i think this means 2 computing units but one control unit
AMD 64 processes 2x the amount of data each clock cycle. In raw computing power this means AMD 64 is a lot quicker. But the intel processors should be a bit bettir in MultiThreading, doing a lot of things at once.
HDD: Maxtor or Seagate: each have their pro and cons.
ATI for graphical card
Zalman for quiet cooling
Nexus for your power supply (quiet also)
Case is your personal preference

Kenny, it's true that buying a builded machine is quicker and easier, but there are a few reasons that worth the challenge of building your own machine.

First of all, you know what you are building. When you buy a computer you don't know what do you have inside (of course you know the speed of the CPU, the RAM memory size, etc, but you ignore the quality of the components).

You can customize your machine. Last week, for example, I built my new computer. It has plenty of coolers, and some rare stuff that I like (hehe, you can call me a maniatic).

And the last reason, it's exciting!! You learn a lot about how does the computer works. It's the best "on-the-job" trainning.

Greetings from Buenos Aires, Argentina.

With respect to all opinions, here is mine (with a lot of experience):
If your use of a computer only involves word processing and web surfing, it doesn't matter what you buy, there are phones that can do both. So we'll assume you want more.
You probably will end up spending more for a self-built PC, but for an intirely different reason: you see, when you buy separate components, you tend to get the best that you can afford (as opposed to off-shelf systems that are under $500, but have components that are already obsolete, and should cost nothing).
For example, by 2005 standards, no self-respectable build-your-own-PC person will use 128MB of RAM in his/her PC, neither will he/she go for that 40 or 60 GB hard drive that most off-shelf bargains boast .
Ask about details of any brand name bargain-PC's components, and -if you can still find them on the market- check their prices, and I guarantee you will find it less expensive to buy the separate components. A lot less! Bargain-PCs are simply ones that cannot be sold otherwise.
Bottom line: you will SPEND MORE, because you will buy BETTER components. So, if it is a question of budget, definitely build your own because, for about the same price, you can build yourself a better machine.

If you decide to build, even if you're not an expert, here are some notes and advice:

1- You learn, learn and learn (I assume you're tech-inclined, by the fact that you're thinking of building your own)...Good.
2- Sorry if I don't write about how to DIY, but this has been covered extensively by all the other posts, which proves that even if you're not experienced, you know you won't be alone if an when you have a problem...Good
3- Building your own PC would take considerable time and it certainly will be a challenge, but fortunately, if you need to, you can use your old computer in the meantime...Good?
4- Satisfaction guaranteed. Frustrations possible but even more satisfaction (and learning)when problems are solved. (most posts mention this fact). So it's about the feeling...Good.
5- You gain the capability and flexibility to upgrade, renew and even rebuild your PC...Good.
6- Sadly, with "Windows Longhorn" in the horizon (mid 2006), and the total change of hardware specs that will come with it (i.e. 64-bit procesing, 3-D display adaptors with lots of ram onboard, bigger/better monitors, bigger/faster disk drives and definitely more -a lot more- recommended RAM), my personnal recommendation would be: Unless you really and critically need the new PC, put this decision on hold for a few more months, as most hardware you buy today will definitely become obsolete in the very near future...Bad.

I hope this helped, and not frustrated you.

You can shop and find a store built comp[uter at a very conservative price. BUT Is that all youre looking for. Most OEM Computers have Propieritary operating systems and tons of software. If youre looking for a computer that you want special Software on and special perifials, go shop at a reptuable computer builder. Ask and let them explain what they have, and does it meet your specific needs. Are you a gamer or a person that needs a computer for speciality work? Check more than one dealer and make youre purchase a complete acceptable computer that you either build yourself or one that has all you need or one that is UPGRADEABLE in the future. A custom built computer will cost a little more but you won't be buying a locked in OEM Product. JOHN

If you want a highly responsive gamer baord then building your own is the way to go. I recently was pricing dells a very good computer high end models and although the price seemed right the power supplys were only 480 watts ...video cards were not capture ready..and if you wanted falt screens etc it was all extra. something the advertisements do not tell you.i built a amd 2600+processesor 1 gig 400mhz drr ram,265 ddr vid card dvd rom writer cd rom writer duo boot xp system 160 + 80 gig harddrives 600 watt powersupply killer cool see through case the suusal floppy drive anda creative 5.1 sound card with 30 harmon kardons speaker system with bass kicker all for around 1500 dollars getting exactly what i wanted.that beats about anything you can buy off the shelf and the mother board is a gamer k7sem pro 5a.

replacing Motherboard & CPU with todays versions
gives SATA choice,Ultra ATA133 IDE,USB 2.0,8x AGP,etc,
Motherbrd+CPU for $150 avge
gives at least 2.0ghz CPU or higher,maybe 4yr old Mem
replaced with latest DDR also at 400mhz
allow $200 for Upgrade to 2004 specs,
existing Floppy,CD/DVD-ROM,Writers ,Hard Drives
all can be used,if Power supply is less than 300
it can be replaced also cheaply $20 to $30
This is what I did with Slot one type PC which was 500mhz
MSI Motherboard+AMD XP 2400+, 256MB DDR memory,
replacing original items,very quickly done parts switch over,then Drivers CD came with new Board,installed them
of course Radeon AGP was moved from old to new Board,
as Dive C: had allready Radeon Drivers
only Board driver were needed,
this way U still keep all youre Hard drive items as is,
But now its New it can use WindowsXP if it was using Windows98SE, as Dual Boot,on another partition,
retired techie Keith

I'm a PC support specialist by trade so I'm doing it all-- network admin, database programming as well as day to day user support. I, of course have to repair PCs as needed. I build PCs for people as a side business as well. When someone asks me why they should buy a PC built by me instead of an "off the shelf" system I say this.-- 1) When I build a PC it is extremely non-proprietary meaning that when upgrade rime eventually arrives, they will not have to rely on purchasing components from a single company. 2) They get exactly what they want for features 3) Windows comes optimized--when you buy an "off the shelf PC" and turn it on, Windows is NOT optimized. It's full of useless 'eye candy' that can cause even the fastest PC to run slowly and there are things that need to be turned off for performance as well. and 4) You dont get al kinds of useless trial and demo versions of software installed on your PC that youll never use
I can assemble a PC in about an hour because I've built so many. What takes all the time is loading the operating system and any other software the customer may want such as Office and antivirus programs.

## If you research different parts vendors, youll see that you can purchase top quality components at extremely reasonably prices.

**My point is that after you've built your first PC, you'll see that it's quite easy as everything is now very standardized.

Good luck.

I agree with much of what has been said but disagree as to cost. For all but the most high end computer, we are talking about having the operating system be a considerable percentage of the overall cost of the machine. Why would you buy a dell or other with xp preloaded rather that use the version that you already paid for? Same with other components. Maybe you need a new monitor but if your existing one is fine, dont buy a machine from someone else that includes a monitor. Same with your disk drives, same with your hard drive. Keep your existing drive and add it to your new machine. Get the features you want, assuming that you know what you want, and only pay for what you need.

I am a big fan of the bare bones systems. Pick out a motherboard, case and processor and let them put it together and test it for you. You can add the rest of the items easily and inexpensively. And, by doing so, the bare bones assembler will give you some warranty protection.

Without a doubt this is a NO brainer. BUILD YOUR OWN PC!
Get all your parts online i.e Newegg.com or pricwatch.com.The cost will be about the same as a "so called Bargain PC". I have worked on Dells,Hp's,E-machines etc. and the so called bargain models all have one thing in common; They're CHEAP! and I don't mean inexpensive. You basically get from these company's a fancy case and an "everything but the kitchen sink motherboard. Video is onboard sharing precious SYSTEM memory and causing possible crashes and or conflicts. Lan, modem and sound are on board as well. What does this mean to you? Well if your motherboard dies, EVERYTHING DIES! With a "build it yourself" PC you can choose all your own SEPERATE quality components. For Example, ATI or Nvidia Video with its own SEPERATE very fast memory. Your own awesome sound card like Creative labs Audigy. The secret to keeping the cost down is buying all your parts online. Each vendor is quality rated. Don't buy from your local CompUSA, it's just not cost effective.
My 9 year old cousin put a PC together. Nowadays its as easy as building a small puzzle. One last note on Proprietary models. They not only have their own cheap boards built solely for their company's, but they have the BIOS built as well.This means NO tweaking for you! It's your choice buy a cheap computer that you pray will last a year or build your own for about the same money that will last 4 or 5 years minimum. YOU DO THE MATH!

U can not only save in your hardware, but how about users who dont use windows, like me, i use Linux!!!
Then, u will also save on your software, cause HP , Dell or any, you are also purshasing the Operating System(Windows) plus office and some other software. Then, if u have the chance, learn , prepare your self and then build it, u will save a lot. I did save 600 bucks on a very similar HP pc, and i do know the pieces i bought are extrem quality!!!