Community Newsletter: Q&A forum: Your thoughts on refurbished or "recertified" computers

I'm all for buying refurbished computers and most major manufacturers offer refurbished equipment from their websites. For example, HP, the one Julianne prefers, consistently has several excellent models always offered for a reasonable discount and with many of the benefits of purchasing a new unit. Most of the time the main perks include a full warranty as if the computer was new. Think about it, who should you purchase a refurbished computer from? The factory using factory trained technicians and factory parts or a reseller whos putting in parts from who knows what source and who knows where their people come from? Buy from the manufacturer.

I have purchased many, many refurbished computers in the last 15 years. I am currently using a Gateway laptop, and a Sony Vaio desktop, both refurbished. Computers generally fail in the infant stage and once they have run for a while it is a good bet that they will continue, especially the non moving parts. Refurbs generally have been ones that had some part that failed and replaced, they have been tested and repaired better than new. Shop carefully - Computers have come down so much in price that you have to be careful about choosing one that is a true savings. If you check the refurbs on the Dell site you will find computers that are the same price or higher than ones that are on "special" do shop carefully. I have had good luck with Ubid, TigerDirect, and Ecost but one more warning - avoid the rebates - I always regret buying anything when I have to meet all the requirements of a rebate.

Am glad to give you an answer.Well even though you have Hp printers and scanners does not mean you have to use an HP computer at all cost.I use Hp too and I know it is a very good product.You can try other products too.It will depend on the module you require because some new modules made by other companies are also expensive so my advice is no matter the product just by what u can afford.
NB:You can also by computer accessories and assemble yourself;that's less expensive

I've come to the firm conclusion that the brand name has no bearing on whether a system is "good" or not these days. In fact, some of the lesser known brands and custom builds have sturdier parts [ex. 3rd Party CPU fans and motherboards made by established motherboard companies] then their HP/Dell, etc. counterparts. The motherboards in particular are usually better because the big boys usually buy from whatever supplier offers the cheapest bid that month. For years now, companies like HP and Dell have not made their real money from consumer desktops [sometimes they even take a loss]. They make it from Servers and major contracts. That having been stated, the bottom-line is that, no matter what the brand name, most of the parts are made by the usual companies [Sony, Intel, Kingston, Western Digital, et all]. Even the desktop cases are usually made by a third party like Foxconn. About the only thing you might get out of buying an HP [and I have nothing against HP] system is that - as you mentioned - you MAY have a little less work installing drivers for your HP printer, camera, etc. But those drivers are relatively easy to find on their website. Even in that regard there is a trade-off, because along with the drivers, HP - and the like - usually load up a bunch of extra software that youll never use. Again, I have no prejudice against any manufacture, but so long as you get an Intel Processor and the right specs [ex. AT LEAST 1GB of RAM with Vista], the logo on the front of the case doesnt matter.

electronics are fairly stable. Dell sells used equipment online.

Hi Julianne, I was so fed up with HP and their crapware, plus my HP machine burned up because they put in no case fans - not one! that I decided to try and build my own. I had never done anything like this before so I had a local pc shop agree to let me build it on their bench and answer my questions. My main concern was getting the BIOS set up right and I needed help clamping the processor onto the board.

I researched every pc part on the internet. There are sites that tell you what you need and step-by-step how to do it. Newegg.com is one site that has user reviews on a wide variety of parts from major vendors. If you buy the parts over a few/couple of months, you can usually get them on sale - at really good prices. I like newegg because they stand by what they sell. I usually contact the manufacturer too (to see if I can and if they respond) before buying from them.

I didn't go with the "latest & greatest" for a couple of reasons. 1. I preferred the "best" from the "best" manufacturer instead of the "latest" or "fastest" (any modern pc is plenty fast for me - and that changes monthly anyway as the "latest/fastest" comes out). 2. I wanted to read reviews that were from people who had USED the part for at least 6 months rather than from someone who had just opened the box and installed it.

So I bought the very best and most/best reviewed of last year's technology. I bought a Lian-Li aluminum case with two 120m (large) case fans plus top and side vents - a larger case than I needed and I spaced the parts inside as far apart as possible and fixed the cables out of the way of the airflow - all to ensure the case and contents stayed COLD. Heat is the enemy of the computer. Some of my parts are not the most mainstream, but the have the best features, warrantees, service, and reviews. And they have worked flawlessly for over a year - I'm very happy with it.

I got an adequate, but not excessive power supply (InWin 460W) with its own 120m fan. Two hard drives: 120GB Seagate as working drive and 320GB Western Digital Caviar for backups. 1GB (twin 512 chips)- there are a number of considerations with every part - you need to be willing to do internet research on EACH one - Video card (again, unless you are playing lightening fast "killer" games you don't need the latest & greatest - just the best of last years). Most important item - motherboard - after a LOT of research, I chose an EpOX SLI board and an AMD (not Intel) processor. I don't need dual processors for my pc use and I don't need RAID or even SATA drives (the IDE ATA are fine) - I have a fantastic backup system that works perfectly for me.

You might consider this rather than getting a "pig-in-a-poke" - if you don't think you can do it, then get a local pc shop to do it (by do it, I mean put it together and let you watch. Your best bet is always to research your own parts - you can price them and let the shop order them if their prices are reasonably comparable, but don't let them talk you into some other parts that they have "on-hand" ie "leftover" without researching the exact model numbers and coming to your own decision.

You have to buy your own retail OS (XP, for heavens sake - NOT VISTA! - that's a whole other essay), BUT you will have it forever and you can just replace parts on your pc - if you do it right - intead of having to get another one in three years.

Hi.

First, Let me get your compatibility concerns out of the way.

Short answer:

Don't worry about it.

Very long answer:

When you buy a pereferal, you get the driver on a CD or the driver is already included with windows, a driver is software developed by someone who knows how this hardware works and knows how to speak its language, and translates everything the operating system says to the "Gadget/Pereferal's language, and the other way round.

For example, to scan an image, some driver+software has to be there to send the commands to Scan, and it has to be there to receive the answer, once the input (To the computer) is there, it is a file, usually something windows/Linux can deal with like a JPEG or a Bitmap image.

When you want to print something, Windows or whatever OS you are using spools that thing, then the driver picks it up and translates it to the printer's language then it is no longer any of window's business, So the OS is the boss, the driver is the secretary.

Your Ipod on the other hand is an external mass storage device that stores MP3 files along with XML data etc... the software (Itunes) has to know how to store the MP3 and how to compose the XML file that tells your ipod everything about the file, On your computer it's just another MP3.

Every gadget you buy comes with One or more device IDs (You can see those if you go to device manager, then you chose to see the properties of the Hardware, then Details Tab, then hardware IDs), Each and every one of them needs a driver, Sometimes and in very rare cases, one driver manages more than one (2+ instances of the same software). so your HP things do not really talk to each other much.

Your hardware, having the drivers that came with them do the talking, they no longer need (And do not) care what PC is there, as long as it is there running those drivers, USB works the same no matter the brand, Same goes for Serial port, Parallel port, PS2, Ethernet, etc...

Please excuse me for elaborating this much, Let me conclude this one with the bottom line.

I personally prefer Intel main boards, There are other chip-set manufacturers who are Just as good, (NOTE: HP or Dell do manufacture chips, but not the main ones for the PC) HP assembles 3rd party chips in a very organized way, They do make better computers than the one you assemble from a cheap casing where ventilation and air circulation are not so well designed, and may be inferior in terms of vibration, Cooling, even looks, But they do the Job fine, and i use them all the time with no problems.

Now since HP or Dell or any other leading PC manufacturer does not manufacture the main chips, the can not control how the chips function, and those chips are available in many other brands (They are not tailored for HP or Dell or gateway).

Conclusion: See short answer

Now, to is refurbished computer worth the money.

As a software developer who's job is somewhat close to the hardware (Programmers don't all do the same thing), i would say you need to inspect the computer you buy, The hard drive's S.M.A.R.T. attributes, the monitor's brightness/color, Also check what problems others are having with this particular model on the internet, BIOS incompatibility with some of your cards, The Fans etc...

Case scenario: When the previous owner decided to clean the CPU heatsink, he/she took it off, used a blower or vacuum cleaner, Put it back exactly how it was, then started the computer, all seems fine, but if you press the computer to the limits, it will probably overheat since the thermal grease between the Heatsink and the CPU is no longer efficient.

Conclusion: If a used HP computer costs as much as a new (DIY) computer, go DIY, There are plenty of good mainboard manufacturers, and you get choices for hard disk, DVD (Lightscibe or not), What VGA card you need and what is an overkill, etc..

If you don't know how to do it yourself, get the neighbors son to do it for 10 bucks.

As a general rule, refurbished desktop computers can be a lot cheaper than their new counterparts and usually run just as good. If you buy a factory refurbished or factory reconditioned computer, they usually go through the same extensive testing as a new PC. You can either go directly to the manufacturers web sites or you can go to a dependable, honest reseller like Tigerdirect.com to purchase one. I personally got my eMachine for just over $200 from Tigerdirect and there is nothing wrong with it. It's a model that came out about 3 months ago and i got it about a month ago. Odds are that someone just didn't like the operating system (Windows Vista) or that something minor went wrong with it that they fixed, or they just changed their minds about it. Either way, I got a great PC that is practically new for a fraction of the price of a new PC. As far as the question about compatability goes, I have an HP, a Gateway, an eMachine and 2 home built PCs in my house, all networked and they all play very nicely together as well as with my Kodak digital camera, 2 HP printers, Cannon printer, and other various brands of paraphernalia attached to the PCs and network. With a mix of various Windows 32 and 64 bit operating systems, I still have never had any compatability issues with my computers and their attachments. So far the only compatability issues I have had are software issues with the 64 bit Vista which is due largely to the fact that 64 bit is so new to the software developers.

I've been using the W3118 eMachines model, 256MB RAM, Combo DVD/CD-RW for the last couple of years when it used to sell at Walmart for $300 and then I added another 512MB of RAM and it works like a charm. Eventually I'll upgrade to the model with the DVD-RW but for now this W3118 model is still working just fine. Up to you if you prefer refurbished or recertified instead of brand new? As for HP, all I have is another horror story of doing business with ill-greedy Hewlett-Packard and I'll never buy any HP product for as long as I live and wouldn't feel any remorse if HP went bankrupt and died out, but again, up to you if prefer doing business with HP? I searched around and eMachines at Walmart was thee only place I could find selling brand new computers with mouse and keyboard for $300. No one else came close to selling similar or equivalent for the same price range. Tech support at eMachines is relatively okay most of the time but beware that tech support personnel at eMachines works on commission and I've only had one very bad encounter with a tech support personnel, (a Tony_GWPS292), who lied through his teeth over and over in his attempt to get me to purchase what I didn't really want but otherwise like I said all my other interactions with eMachines tech support was relatively okay with no other problems to speak of, unlike that darn HP tech support who can still go-to-heck for all I care. I can't help but feel sorry for you because you're still partial to HP which means it's still likely a matter of time before you learn the hard way of no longer wanting to do any further business with HP, but again it's up to you to do whatever you want?

For years I purchased refurbished desktop systems from the Dell Outlet website. At the time, the PCs came with a 3 year warranty, which I believe is now their standard 1 yr warranty. I've had very very few problems with the components, and service/replacement has historically been excellent for me when there has been a defective part.
The last desktop I purchased was in 2003 and I have had no problems with any of the components. I purchased a laptop in 2005, the hard drive died last year (out of the 1 yr warranty), but all I did was find a new hard drive online ($70) and swapped it in.
Been very happy over the years with the Dell Refurbished Outlet Center, the selection and Dell Support.

I purchase a refurb. Sony Vaio from UBIT and a gateway from EBay. The Sony is four years old I've had no problems, Ive loaded it with lots of junk and reloaded the operation system about three times because of application not working. It stills runs fine. The Gateway is about One year old and is working fine. I purchase the Gateway for about three hundred dollars it came fully loaded a fast machine. I actually purchase a gateway from HSN for about $1200
1 1/2 years ago. And I've had more problems with the HSN purchase.

Julianne,

There's pretty good reasons out there for why HP is the number one PC maker in the US now. They generally make very good products. As for Inkjet printers, the only brand I would consider is HP. When you buy a cartridge for an Epson or Canon, you are getting about $0.15 worth of ink in a cartridge that maybe costs $0.25 to manufacture, for what? $30?? With HP, you get a new print head for your printer... Which does two things... Makes your printer work like new, and makes the cartridge worth it's price... I have spent hundreds on Epson printers and cartridges, and tossed them out when they were less than a year old because the print head was hopelessly clogged... Never again. My HP Photosmart printer is years old now, and it still works flawlessly... Almost 90% of the pictures throughout my house are digital pictures printed out on the HP, and they all look like photographs...

HP computers are very good, too. (I don't like Compaq, and though they are the same company now I would not consider any of the laptops or desktops with the Compaq name...) But HP branded desktops and Laptops are very, very good. And recertified in the case of an HP means only one thing in my mind; This computer has been completely checked out for functionality. Everything works flawlessly... With a new PC, they just have quality audits of the assembly line, and not every PC has been tested, and the ones that have have not been fully tested... That's just the reality of an assembly line. The PC's that get sent back for whatever reason (And most are completely free of defects, by the way... They are sent back because the buyer returned it because they changed their mind, or saw it somewhere else for $10 cheaper, or whatever...) They go through the computer completely, and replace anything that isn't just like brand new, and then repackage it in a plain box... I have bought several refurbished computers from HP, and have never been even a little dissapointed... The worst flaw I ever saw was a tiny scratch on one of the bezels, but the girl I bought it for has been using it for two years and has never noticed it. (I'm sure she assumed one of her kids was responsible, since they have managed to beat the thing up pretty well since she got it... )

I would not hesitate to fully recommend a refurbished HP... Go for it!

There is nothing wrong with saving a couple bucks and not to mention saving the environment by purchasing a refub computer. My biggest concern would be the return policy. In a perfect world you are buying this from a source that would give you your money back within the first 14 - 30 days if there is a problem with the computer. Make sure the parts are in working order immediately after purchase: run memtest and drive fitness test (both free) to make sure the parts inside the box work. Test the sound and cd player, plug in a network cord... generally have a look around the computer and kick the tires.

Hopefully the computer comes with some legit software, at least an operating system. If the computer is a windows xp machine go immediately to windows update and make sure the copy of windows is licensed (windows update will install wga which will tell you if the copy is licensed). Buying windows can be the most expensive part of a cheap computer.

Does the computer come with any software discs... specifically restore cds. If not that's fine, buy true image or ghost to make and image of the hard drive that will become your restore cds.

Pick up your favorite security apps and run the computer though a full virus scan to see if there is any junk on the computer. The last thing you want out of a computer is inherit someone elses problem machine. Happy hunting!

"Honestly, I would NEVER purcahse a used or refurbished computer. I mean, you never know how many times it has been dropped or had coffee spilled on it."

Umm... You apparently have never worked in a retail store that sells electronics because you don't know how often new computers are dropped in the back either. Even if you order it directly from the manufactorer there is no guarentee that it would not arrive damaged. I had a friend who bought a brand new Antec chassis through Mwave and the side panel was crushed. Of all of the arguments against refurbs that has to be the lamest.

"If it is refurbished, the company has probably just put like a "fresh coat of paint" on it, to make it look new. They have probably replaced the parts with crappy parts. And you never know how much junk is on it."

It depends upon who is doing the refurbishing. I seen some pretty bad build quality on Dell refurbs, but in my experience, HP tends to do a good job. That isn't to say I have never seen a defective HP refurb, but the return rate in my experience was low. Actually most refurbishing plants are less concerned about a "fresh coat of paint" then they are concerned about that everything passes a hardware diagnostic. I can assure you that the vendor doesn't want to see the machine back. If it comes back again it loses even more value. At some point it just becomes an accounting writeoff as a business loss and is sold as scrap metal and ewaste. I don't even know what you mean junk on it. A used computer maybe, but I've never seen a refurb where they didn't image the drive back to the original factory drive image that they put on new machines.

"Now about your being partial to HP. No, I don't think that is bad, as they have great products and they are usually very reliable. I would not buy an HP digital camera though. I never hear anything good about their cameras. But whenever I buy a new printer, scanner, computer, etc., the first brand I look at is HP. So no, as long as they have treated you well in the past and continue to be good to you, I don't think that being partial is a problem at all."

I don't know where you get your information on HP being any more reliable vendor than anyone else. Certainly I would recommend HP as probably being more trustworthy than say ECS or some of the fly by night operations, but most surveys show HP near the bottom on desktops and laptops. Their printers are still pretty sturdy machines, but no matter what survey you look at (PC Mag, PC World, Laptop Users mag, etc.) they seem to be near the bottom. If anybody can back up the assessment other than their own limited anecdotal evidence that HP is above average please share. Unless you are an IT director or consultant whom manages 100+ your anecdotal evidence is likely too small of a sample to be very meaningful. I'm not saying that your good luck with HP computers is a lie only that based upon most surveys and a lot of anecdotal evidence to the contrary, that your experience is atypical.

If you are looking for something to last 3-4 years I would say a refurb is a bad choice. Unless the factory QC inspection dates on the moving parts are recent, you will find that the failure rate will be higher in years 2-4. The moving parts have a finite lifetime. The power supply on most name brand computers aren't likely to last more than two years if you use it extensively because whether it is new or refurb it is usually a no-name vendor that no one building their own machine would ever consider for anything that they didn't want to service is a year or so.

If you are looking for a short term machine (1-2 years) to get you through some tough economic times a refurb may be a good choice.

My 2c is that if you are really interested in refurbs the most important thing is to make sure that you really are getting a good deal. Far too many people buy refurbs based upon a discount that is completely dishonest because it is based on a original price that no one charges anymore. The typical industry average discount is about 20-25% discount on the price of a new machine with similar specs. Occasionally it can get better (~33%+), but if you are expecting more than ~25% you are wasting your time because except for very high end machines that will be very atypical. Especially on the low end machines I wouldn't buy a refurb unless it was a minimum of 15% off of the new price. Sometimes it can be hard to get a valid comparison so you are going to have to do some research unless you know someone with some knowledge.

I can't believe some of the ignorance of people who act knowledgeable.

Buying any specific PC brand is usually a matter of personal preference. Most of the top name companies (Dell, HP, IBM, etc) usually have products that are comparable with a PC of another manufacturer having similar speed, ram, operating system, and components. Likewise, most of the major system manufacturers have a pre-owned sales section where you can pick up a reasonably priced recent system. Whether you buy it from a manufacturer, outlet, online or your local PC shop, there are some considerations you will need to list in order to make a wise purchase. I am assuming you are looking only at PCs, so if one of your friends suggests an Apple or MAC, those are a whole other subject and are not covered here. Re-certified or refurbished usually means that the system has been checked and shows to function reliably. Most often, the hard drive has its operating system wiped and reinstalled. This insures that the previous owner has not left their files on the system, and that if a virus or other corruption was present, it is removed. The first decision you have to make is how much you want to spend. A basic system includes a cabinet that contains the mainboard, processor, hard drives, optical drives, RAM and internal components. It will also include a monitor, keyboard, and mouse. Newer systems come with a flat panel or LCD screen. Keyboards and mice are usually wired but might be wireless. A flat panel monitor will cost more than the older tube type monitors. A wireless keyboard and mouse will cost more than a wired keyboard or mouse. From there, you will need to list the other decisions you will make to have a satisfactory system:

1. Processor Type and Speed. Intel and AMD are both reputable processor manufacturers BUT, when buying a newer system, consider a multi core (Dual-core or Quad-core) processor. The higher the speed value, the faster the processor. A mult-core processor of lower speed value will provide better performance than a lower speed single-core processor.

2. RAM. I recommend at least 1 gigabyte of RAM for any recent system. While 512 megabytes usually allows most systems to perform, the extra ram will allow for better overall system performance by speeding application (your programs) tasks. One of the chief complaints I hear about performance is that when the system was new, it seemed fast. What happens is that through time, a user will load many speed robbing applications (programs) on the system after they purchase it. Many of these applications (word processor, spreadsheet, data programs, e-mail clients, graphic editing programs, games, etc.) compete for RAM and slow performance. The additional RAM will help improve performance while using those memory hogging programs.

3. Storage Drive Size, Type and Speed. 80 gigabytes is about the minimum you should get in a used system. Of course, more storage equals more money, but dont get a system that will not house the programs and data you require. In IDE drives, opt for a 7200RPM drive because the transfer rate is higher and overall performance is better. SATA is a more recent offering that allows faster transfer. I am beginning to see more used systems having SATA storage drives.

4. Operating System. The two operating systems most common to individual or family users are Windows XP or Windows Vista. The XP operating system is available as XP Home, and as XP Pro. Most users will not notice much difference between the two versions, but of course, the Pro version has some features not available in the Home edition.

Vista is the newest offering from Microsoft. Most common to the average system is likely Vista Home Basic and Vista Home Premium. A Vista operating system will likely cost you more than a system employing XP. The premium edition is likely to add a few dollars more to the cost of the system than the basic version.

5. Optional Programming. Many system manufacturers offer a programming package that includes office type software, and sometimes games and utilities, photograph editing software and other useful home programs. These programs are not included in all systems and in many instances; some of the software included are only trial offers allowing use for about 30 days.

There are some items in most systems that are desirable to the home user are:

1. Optical Drive. A CD or DVD drive is a desirable option. If the drive is labeled ROM, it will read but not write. If you want it to write CDs or DVDs, it must be listed as RW (Read-Write). You can get a combo drive that will read and write CDs, but only read a DVD so you can burn your own photos to CD, and watch a DVD movie on your computer. If the drive can burn a DVD, it will add to the cost. Light-Scribe is a nifty technology that writes a label onto the disk when the burn process is completed. That will also add dollars to your purchase.
2. Graphics Card. Most systems have an integral on-board graphics card which will suffice for most applications. HOWEVER, if you have children or an inner child that plays modern top end games, having a graphics card having with on-board memory is a must.
3. Restore Disks. Many systems have a restore disk included. These disks have many purposes. If your hard drive crashes and you need to reload the system, or if the system becomes corrupted by a virus and needs reloaded, the restore disk is invaluable. It includes the operating system and drivers for your system. HOWEVER, if your system has no additional programs, you might not have a restore disk offered.

What ever you decide, make a list of your desired options, list your budget for a system and shop around for about 2 weeks. Compare like systems, apples for apples and oranges for oranges. Try not to buy on impulse, and try not to appear disparate to the sales person. Read about options, and do some homework in advance. Once you decide on a system, MAKE SURE the case has a Certificate of Authenticity (COA) containing the proper license key for the operating system contained within the computer. I have seen systems for sale that have a Windows 2000 COA (older operating system) but were loaded with Windows XP. DONT BOTHER. This is not legal and could cost you the price of an operating system later if you buy a system that way, then try to re-install the operating system later. Also consider that many such systems are pirated and an update might just invalidate your operating system. I would question the integrity of anyone that tries to sell such a system. One last word of advice, check the reputation of the seller and ask about the sellers warranty and return policy before you buy. Happy shopping!