Community Newsletter: Q&A forum: Is peer-to-peer software such as LimeWire legal and safe to use?

Nothing I have is copyright protected or as far as I know.

I got to say that I like you. I appreciate the fact that you are a real music fan! If is clear that you really care about music, how you listen to it, and you have a conscience about this subject. I appreciate that you have been on this board debating your point.

I hope that through our discussions, many people will learn.

Just wanted you to know that I respect you.

You have to ask yourself, is "your own benefit" at someone else's expense?

If YOU are creating content (music, movies, etc.) and are using P2P to share your creations with the world, then you are "using it for your benefit" and the benefit of others. It can be a wonderful way to share with the world your creativity. It's not illegal because YOU, the OWNER of the content, are making the decision to share your art with the world.

If, however, you are NOT creating content - you are copying material that is created by others, who sell their art to pay rent and put food in their mouths - and you are making a copy of their art without their permission and without paying them - it is stealing. The theft is compounded when your computer is hooked up to the Internet and you are 'sharing' (really, letting others make a free copy) material that you do not own.

It is easy to feel that sitting at your computer, clicking your mouse, you are not doing any more harm than if you drive a couple of miles over the speed limit.

But I am trying to show you all that there are real people out here who have dedicated their lives to the passion of making music, films, etc., and when you download copyrighted material, you are taking food right off our table. Many of us work for free for years to learn our crafts, in hope that some day there will be a payoff. With illegal downloading, that payoff, which was almost impossible, becomes even harder to attain.

In the end, you the fans are denied a lot of great music because most talented people are not able to sustain and stop making music; and the choking of the income stream means record companies are not investing in new artists. How long would you work at any job if you knew you would probably never get paid?

The point is...copying without the owner's permission is to your benefit, but to other's harm.

What Should be ILLEGAL is the M I A A and the M P A A being able to go after 7 year olds and other Poor people who are probably the One Millionth person to Download a digital file from someone elses Computer Over the INTERNET/ CYBERPSPACE, and call this DIGITAL File a COPYRIGHTED piece of material.. When does a Copyright cease to exist?? I say Once It has been placed as a digital file on MINE or anyone elses Computer hard drive!! I say Once it has been shared a million times over a period of years and exists on MILLIONS of John Q publics P C'S, it should be considered PUBLIC Domain. Basically what Im trying to ask here is. Is it morally or ethically RIGHT. For the M I A A or the
M P A A, To be able to MAKE law declaring it ILLEGAL for John Q ANYWHO to download a DIGITAL File Of What The (MIAA/ MPAA) want to delare Intellectually copyrighted material???? UNDER The CONTITUTIONAL Right of Free Speech ( for instance) If YOU (MIAA/ MPAA) cannot STOP EVERYONE ( MILLIONS!!) from Sharing YOUR so called Copyrighted Digital files?? Why go after anybody and single anyone OUT?? Much less some 7 year old girl??
L M A O???? We are Not talking about an actual sorebought item here!!Or an actual CD that someone has copied and is trying to sell at the FLEA market... We are talikg an AMERICAN.. In The UNITED STATES of AMERICA, who is FREE And has all these constitutional rights ( Such as Free Speech)Who OWNS a personal COMPUTER and
A L L The D I G I T A L FILES Thereon!!! Being told they cannot share What belongs to them with Whomever THEY may want to share it with. N O W> If You will Involve US!! The MIAA/MPAA and PAY 1 dollar a download fee, WELL N O W Its all legal and O K???? !!!!! YOU SEE We have come full circle once again to the ALMIGHTY DOLLAR and MIAA/MPAA feeling they arent getting enough of them!! What a CROCK of HORSE SPIT! Tell me PEOPLE?? HOW can YOU COPYRIGHT a DIGITAL FILE?? Or HOW can you copyright every digital file on everyones P C?? Some Smart lawyer is gonna get hold of all this before its all said and done and PUT these Bogus Money Grubbers Out of Business!

Here are the selected submissions grouped in one post. Read through them and place your votes in the newsletter poll.

Answer:

Brandy,

Limewire is a P2P (Peer to Peer) sharing application along the same lines as the old Napster, WinMX, and a plethora of others. Users log in, share their files and search for others with music or videos or what not to download.

The problem with Limewire (and the other P2P sharing apps) isn't that the application itself is "illegal" to use - it's the content being shared. And therein lies the crux of the problem. SOME content is perfectly legal to share. Either the song or video is public domain, or the license for the song allows people to share it with reckless abandon. New groups sometimes grant licenses like this in order to "spread the word" so they can gain a listening audience.

Then there's the rest of the content universe. Most music and videos out there are NOT freeware. Most music by popular artists are protected by copyrights and such and if you download them, you could seriously be violating the law. ALL feature films are likewise protected by copyrights and downloading them IS likewise a big no-no.

The problem is determining exactly what is legit and what isn't. None of the P2P apps have any indicators that will tell you if the song's OK to download or is a one way ticket into trouble. You have to do a bit of research to see if a given song or video is OK to download or not.

And if that weren't enough... It gets worse. The RIAA (Recording Industry Association of America) and the MPAA (Motion Picture Association of America) have been fighting back on a number of fronts. You've probably heard of 7 year old kids being sued for downloading a couple of songs. The RIAA and MPAA have software that can trace songs back to their point of origin by way of the IP (Internet Protocol) address of the person allegedly sharing the content. Never mind that the software in question is by NO means foolproof - there have been cases where they've tracked a song to an IP address only to find that the computer located at the address in question has NO trace of either music or video files, nor the programs allegedly used to share the files, NOR any trace that they were ever on the person's hard drive.

The other main methodology behind the RIAA/MPAA's plans to combat piracy is to "pollute" the sharing system with bogus files. On the one hand, the files may contain the first 30 odd seconds of a given song or a few minutes of a given video, but the rest of the file is garbage or lots of 0's - dead silence. If you download it from one of their agents, they record your IP address and send you a nastygram demanding money. If you get it from someone else, they still win because the file is incomplete junk and you've wasted time and effort downloading it.

Needless to say, MOST people nailed in these operations by the RIAA/MPAA get sued for copyright infringment. Most of these people usually cave in and pay their ransom (read: settle out of court) instead of fighting back. The reason behind this is obvious. It's far cheaper to pay a few thousand dollars than to hire a lawyer, go to court, and ultimately potentially lose the case - and then have to pay THEIR lawyer's fees as well as your own on top of whatever punitive damages the court decides you need to pay the RIAA/MPAA member in question.

As far as saftey's concerned... It's not worth the effort either. Software obtained from services like this can be corrupted, or otherwise infected with who knows what viruses and such. It can cause more problems than it solves.

So the bottom line - while it may be an appealing means to get your music, video or software fix, you may find yourself in heap big trouble. The "glory days" of downloading stuff willy-nilly on P2P networks are over. Unless you're filthy rich or you're a world class hacker who can cover your tracks on the web with the skills of a cyber-ninja and are an expert in solving softare problems, it just isn't worth the hassle.

It's far cheaper to buy a CD, rip the tracks you want and keep it in your archives OR buy the track/video from a legitimate source than to get busted by the RIAA/MPAA stormtroopers for sharing a few songs or go to court and really get the shaft.. Thus far, the RIAA/MPAA have an almost bulletproof record in winning the cases where the case went to court.

Submitted by: Wolfie2k5


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Answer:

(Authors disclaimer - I personally have nothing against breaking laws, hurting feelings, or a lack of ethics. This post will not portray my personal feelings on this matter, simply the facts as they stand now.)

First, LimeWire, Torrents, or any other form of music/software/video downloading programs are not illegal. The programs themselves are like any other tool. The tool is not illegal, what you do with it can be.

That being said, if you are downloading songs from any of these, that is not illegal either - maybe immoral, but not illegal. The only thing covered under copyright regulations is the distribution of copyrighted materials (see any RAA court case). This means that if you are uploading anything you are breaking the law.

Now, there is a couple of simple reasons Limewire is unsafe. First, it opens your system. Many people would disagree, however from the moment you begin using it you have opened yourself to maliscious software. Limewire makes a couple of directories (one of which it never informs you of) and begins to cycle downloads into your computer. Many (Most) of these are viruses. Your antivirus - if it's any kind of decent at all - will begin to go nuts, everyday. Also, most of these programs/songs/etc will come from one distributor so there is a greater chance of tampering.

The second reason LimeWire is unsafe is that you don't have a choice to restrict what is distributed through your system, or how much. You can have anything from a cookbook to porn on your computer and never know it. However, you can still get in trouble with it. If you are caught with - let's say some tastelessly immoral things - on your computer, you could get caught in something very deep. You will be distributing this because the Limewire program does it automatically.

In all, just stay away form Limewire, gnutella, or any of its counterparts. Yes, they are free and fast, but can be deadly. If you must download things use a Torrent Program such as bitTorrent or UTorrent or any of those. While they may take more time to download and can be more confusing at times, they are inherently
safer.

Submitted by: Archus

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Answer:

Brandy,

It is important to realize that file sharing software like LimeWire is not illegal per se. What is illegal is the downloading of copyrighted material, be it music files, movies, programs, images, etc. Doing so is considered piracy and can get you in an awful lot of trouble.

This whole mess essentially started in the late 90's, when a little application by the name of Napster (http://www.napster.com/choose/index.html) captured the imagination of nearly everyone within reach of a computer. Suddenly, you could get online and find pretty much any song you could think of - even long-forgotten or obscure tracks you could find neither on the radio nor at music stores. Many artists embraced the new technology. Others, most notably the heavy metal outfit Metallica, voiced their opposition on grounds that sharing of music files undermined album sales and thus profits.

Metallica's complaints proved to be as loud as their music, and the record companies decided to get involved.

The original Napster probably did more to promote new computer sales and help usher the age of high-speed Internet connections than most folks might realize. Downloading songs via dial-up connections took forever - and that was only one of a number of frustrations. But those same songs could be downloaded in a few minutes with a high-speed connection.

Faster downloads meant your chances of successfully downloading a song from anywhere in the world improved dramatically, since any given download would be completed in significantly less time. The "community" features of Napster meant some guy in southern Italy would pop up and ask you whether you had a copy of Black Rose's "Never Should've Started," and your jaw would just about hit the floor upon the realization that you were not the only soul in the universe who knew that obscure track, let alone want it. Folks kept downloading music files, and as their relatively small hard drives filled, they upgraded their hardware. Now everybody had a reason to get new computers, better speakers, etc. More peer-to-peer file sharing services appeared on the scene. A lot of folks were making a lot of money, really fast.

But the record companies were not (supposedly) among them, and they wanted a slice of the pie. When Gateway Computers (http://www.gateway.com/) ran a TV ad which blatantly exploited Napster's popularity, the proverbial "thing" hit the fan.

Gateway was pressured into withdrawing the ad, and the record companies went after Napster and, later, individual users. This resulted in many horror stories, like grandmothers getting arrested for songs their grandchildren downloaded to their PCs.

Understand, the record companies and artists have a right to look after their business interests. But the manner in which they went about expressing their concerns really rubbed people the wrong way. (It could be argued that Metallica itself never quite recovered from the backlash. Talk about poetic justice...)

Ironically, there was precious little evidence that all of that downloading had a significant effect on music sales. In fact, most published analyses suggested the main reason people were buying less CDs was because they were spending their money on a relatively new and exciting technology that offered far more bang for the buck - DVDs.

But that didn't stop the record companies. And rather than adopting the new technology developed by Napster, they decided to attack it. Napster was sued and a settlement was reached. It eventually resurfaced as the legitimate digital music store that exists today. (A very nice store, but a shadow of its old self.) With Napster out of the way, the record companies went after other file sharing giants, like KaZaA. LimeWire didn't become a target until more recently, probably because other applications were more popular.

If any good came out of this ugly mess, it was the acknowledgment of the need for legal alternatives for the digital distribution of copyrighted material. In this regard, Apple's iTunes (http://www.apple.com/itunes/) and eMusic (http://www.emusic.com/) have been godsends.


Back to LimeWire. It is legal software, and you can download a copy of this application by visiting

http://www.limewire.com/english/content/home.shtml


Use Limewire judiciously - and at your own risk. Before you install the application, you will be asked whether you intend to use it to download copyrighted material, and you are given the chance to learn and understand the implications of doing so.

If you decide to give LimeWire a try, I suggest you stick to the basic version. The so-called Pro version might offer wider searches (and potentially more results), e-mail technical support, and the eternal promise of a groundbreaking new version to be released in the next six months, none of which justifies the cost of just under $19 every six-months. (You probably stand a better chance of finding the Loch Ness Monster hiding under your bed than ever seeing that elusive ultimate version of LimeWire Pro...)

Incidentally, the search engine is notoriously inaccurate regardless of the version of LimeWire you use.

As for the downloads themselves, realize that while not everything is copyrighted, what you see is not always what you get. Many files are of very poor quality, corrupted, misnamed and/or incomplete. That search result listed as "The Fratellis - Flathead" might be nothing more than Barney the Purple Dinosaur singing "I Love You" over and over. Some types may contain spyware and even trojans and viruses.

Realize that file sharing applications like LimeWire tend to share your computer's "My Documents" or "My Music" folder by default. As a result, anyone on the file sharing network at the same time your computer is connected may have the option to browse your shared folders and download whatever their little hearts desire - anything from a Kanye West track to a copy of your income tax form, complete with your social security number. Thus, it is important that after you install LimeWire, you go to Tools/Options/Sharing and specify as your shared folder one that only has files you wouldn't mind sharing, if any.

(LimeWire is a two-way street. You take and you are expected to give - at least some. If you give a lot of copyrighted materials, you run the risk of getting invited to appear in court...)

If what really interests you is downloading music - especially more recent and/or popular offerings - your best bet is to stick to one of the popular digital music stores, like iTunes and Napster. These are hardly the only two stores - just the most popular. You can also purchase and download music from stores as varied as

Sony's Connect Music Store (http://musicstore.connect.com/)
Real/Rhapsody (http://www.real.com/)
Best Buy (http://www.bestbuy.com/olspage.jsp?id=pcmcat102400050000&type=category)
Yahoo! Music (http://music.yahoo.com/)
Amazon.com (http://www.amazon.com/)
Walmart.com (http://www.walmart.com/).

One thing all these stores have in common is that they sell protected music files - files that have certain playback and recording limitations (known as digital media rights) to discourage illegal sharing. Thus, if you already have an mp3 player or are considering getting one, it makes sense to stick to a store or stores that support the media formats of the player that interests you.

Make sure you understand the digital media rights terms of a particular store before purchasing songs, especially in regards to burning songs to CDs. Some stores have terms so incredibly restrictive and/or vague that the savings they offer are simply not worth the hassle. (Exhibit A: Puretracks.com, www.puretracks.com/)

For more information on this subject, check out the following Music Compatibility Wizard:

http://www.cnet.com/4520-7899_1-6307461-1.html?tag=dir


You can also check for reviews of the different digital music stores on CNET.


By the way, there are other ways to get a lot of music legally, and possibly even for free:

* Many artists (new and established) reward their fans' curiosity and loyalty by offering bonus, alternate and/or rare tracks on their websites - or their MySpace (http://www.myspace.com/) pages. These free files might be smaller and thus of slightly lesser quality than their for-sale counterparts, though they tend to be of equal or better quality.

* Don't overlook eMusic. Record companies often sell part of their back catalogs to other smaller, independent labels, which in turn make their offerings available through eMusic. You might be surprised at what you find there. You can sign up for a free trial and get to keep anywhere from 25 to 100 tracks.

* Subscription services such as Rhapsody and Napster to Go allow you to download unlimited songs to your computer and/or portable device while your membership is active. While you do not actually own the songs (and thus cannot burn them to a disc), you can listen to thousands of songs each month for a low fee.

* Services like Yahoo! Music and Rhapsody allow you to stream music to your computer for free. With Rhapsody, you can listen to up to 25 songs a month for free. And I mean full songs, not just 30-second samples.

* You can also find a lot of free music on http://www.mp3.com/.

Two more advantages of dealing with digital music stores are consistency of quality and a very high probability that what you are downloading is not malware. Also, these stores might offer tracks unavailable elsewhere, even on CD.

Ultimately, you need to weigh the pros and cons of using a program like LimeWire to download music. Hopefully I have given you enough information to make an educated decision. Good luck!


Miguel K.


P.S.: For anyone wondering, the Black Rose mentioned above is not the one available on iTunes. In fact, it is not available through any digital music store as far as I know. If you know the song in question, I salute you. If you don't and are curious, you have to do your homework...

Submitted by: Kid A

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Answer:

Hello Brandy,

I'll make this short and sweet. Using Limewire is NOT illegal. Using Limewire to download Copyrighted Material (most songs and movies are two examples) IS illegal unless, and ONLY unless, you already own a copy of the album or video (on disc or tape) that you are downloading as you are allowed to have such copies for your own personal use.

Since "sharing" copyrighted materials is the main thing such P2P (Peer to Peer) networking programs are being used for, the media companies and related industry organizations that own or manage most of the copyrights are trying to get the "sharing" programs outlawed.

But there are dangers in using the P2P programs as they are becoming a common distribution route for various worms, viruses, trojans, spyware and other malware. If you choose to use such a program, there are some that have a reputation for trying to protect their users from phony downloads (files that appear to be popular songs/movies but are really junk files that are posted by the above companies/organizations to waste your time) and downloads with malware payloads. But even with those programs there is no guarantee of protection, so you should become very familiar with computer security to protect yourself from them.

I hope that helps.

.bh. aka Zepper

Submitted by: zepper

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Answer:

Brandy,

At it's heart LimeWire and other similar services are general file sharing services. You *can* find music and even movies there but you are smart enough to question this due to legal considerations and computer security, and rightly so.

First lets talk about the legal situation. As a general rule, if you can download songs or movies that are from commercial sources (in other words that are sold in stores) and you do not have to pay for them then it is probably illegal. We have all heard the stories of the RIAA and the MPAA tracking users of these "Peer2Peer" sharing services down and bringing legal action against them. And while they are not quite as "sue happy" as they once were, it could still happen to you. There are many legal sites to download music from for a small fee. You can choose from Apple's iTunes Store, Microsoft's Urge, and even Napster to name a few.

Now as to the other concern you mentioned, security. This is a very important matter with all P2P services and is certainly not confined just to LimeWire. There are many people on these services that will post files that contain various forms of malware (viruses, spyware, etc). People download files expecting to get something they want and instead infect themselves and further spread the electronic nastiness like wildfire. I always tell people to never accept a file from a source they do not trust, and on a P2P network with millions of people the chances are fairly slim you can say that you trust them all. The best advice I can give you if you still want to use these services is to have a good firewall and virus scanner combo and keep them up to date! And be sure to have yet another layer of protection by using spyware protection, I personally do scans at least once a month with both Spybot and AdAware.

I hope that this helps you. Just remember, if something is too good to be true it probably is....this applies to more in life than just free music.

Submitted by: LyteWing

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Answer:

Brandy,

First and foremost, file sharing software is not illegal in the strictest sense. A little legal history: In "the Betamax case" - Sony Corp. of America v. Universal City Studios, Inc. - the Supreme Court ruled that technology that allows copyright-infringing use is not illegal if the technology has significant non-infringing uses.* So rest assured you are not doing anything illegal by installing the software.

Unfortunately, however, file sharing (often called P2P) software is very often used for illegal purposes - the uploading and downloading of copyrighted material without permission. The only real "legally murky" area is downloading copyrighted materials that you already own. When you use software like Limewire, you use their built-in search to find files, so naturally you have to search for specific songs if you want to download music. Being only a casual listener myself, most of the music that I know and care to listen to is copyrighted. So I wouldn't know of any music that would be legal to download from file sharing software.

If that's enough to change your mind about obtaining P2P software, there are alternatives. You may want to look into sites like music.download.com, where (typically unsigned) artists share their work freely. Or you may want to look into downloading popular music legally through services like iTunes (pay per song) or Napster (pay per month). But if you feel you can use P2P software legally, read on.

Limewire is safe, although in the past it was supposedly distributed with adware or spyware. That is what was meant by "unsafe." Luckily though, Limewire was "GPL'd" which basically means the source code was made available to show that it is clear of viruses and other bad stuff. Limewire uses the Gnutella network, which is one of the largest file sharing networks out there. Another open source choice would be Ares, which uses its own network. It also uses BitTorrent, which is a completely different file sharing method that, without going into specifics, allows much faster downloading of large files. You might consult the P2P article on Wikipedia for more info on the different networks and software available. If you do decide to get any file-sharing software, I highly recommend it be open source.

I hope this helps,

- Luke

* You may note that in a more recent case, MGM Studios, Inc. v. Grokster, Ltd., the Supreme Court ruled against Grokster, claiming they marketed the illegal aspect of the software, and ordered them to pay $50 million to the RIAA and MPAA. As a result, Limewire has also been targeted, and they've since countersued the RIAA. The battle is ongoing. Note that none of these cases will make the software itself illegal. It only confirms what we already knew - that the copyright infringement that goes on within these networks is illegal.

Submitted by: ucphenom82

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Answer:

There are two issues to Brandy's question Legality and Safety.

LEGALITY -- Peer-to-peer (P2P) file sharing programs, in and of themselves, are not illegal. However, their most frequent use, trading music without a license, is illegal. Heres how it works

When you create something, whether it be a photograph, a song, a book, or even a home movie Happy Valentines you are the author of that property. As the author, you are instantly granted control over who may make, sell, or trade copies of it, and for what purpose. This law is called the Copyright Law, and it makes the use of your creations, without your permission (which you grant through a license), illegal.

Limewire and other P2P programs make it easy for anyone connected to the internet to search and download files on the computers of other users. If you make available Happy Valentines, to which YOU OWN the Copyright, that is a perfectly LEGAL use of the service.

However, most people load, and do searches for, popular music to which they DO NOT own the Copyright! That is an ILLEGAL use of the service.

So who is hurt by this?

First - the labels, producers, retail record shops, are all on the critical list with most leaving the business. As an independent producer, I have lost over $700,000 to illegal downloading.

Second the Artists. P2P sharing removes revenue that allows Record labels and Producers to develop new talent, so if an artist is not an instant HIT, their careers are often over.

And Third you, the listener. The first recordings of Bob Dylan, Elton John, Bruce Springsteen, 311, Fall Out Boy, Kelly Clarkson, Faith Hill and many other artists were not instant hits. In todays record industry, they would probably not get a second chance.

Now the sencond issue, SAFETY -- Most of these products are reasonably safe, IF you are careful about partitioning your computer to limit the access of others. However, if you do not follow the instructions correctly, you will allow full access (and license) to other P2P users, including your bank records, personal letters, private photos and movies (remember "Happy Valentines?"), etc., all of which YOU own the Copyright. If you follow the instructions and are reasonably computer savvy, (or if you dont mind giving up privacy), you should be fine.

Submitted by: David Eaton Productions

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Answer:
Limewire, in addition to most other sites and applications that allow you to download music are essentially networks of people who have files that they are uploading to users who request them, hence the term "file-sharing" or "peer-to-peer networking." The legality of file sharing all depends on the content being distributed. If you are receiving a file from someone who does not have the rights to distribute that file (for example, a song that your "peer" ripped from a CD) then the act is illegal. If the file is distributed by someone who DOES have the rights to distribute it (such as a young artist trying to distribute demo songs that the artist created), then it is legal.

Be aware also that many file-sharing programs will automatically distribute the files you've downloaded to other users, in which case you may be caught and tried as a distributor of copy-righted material - something that you obviously want to avoid.

The issue of safety has to do with your trust in the person uploading the file. The person may call the file whatever he or she wants, and the danger is that someone with malicious intent may upload a fake file that really contains harmful software such as a virus or spy/ad-ware.

You may be wondering "if it's so dangerous/illegal, then why does it still exist?" The answer is because the file-sharing networks can all claim to be unaware of what material is being distributed, and no way to control what files are uploaded, after all, it's the users who distribute the copyrighted material, not the company.

If you are looking to download a song from the internet, I would recommend staying away from file-sharing programs such as limewire. A safer, and much more legal alternative is to download MP3s from legal sources such as Walmart.com or iTunes. Both companies allow you to purchase individual songs and both companies DO have agreements with the record companies to allow them to legally distribute the songs.

Submitted by: dkokelley

I see comments that say that LimeWire shares files that users are not aware of, and does not inform them. That's completely wrong!
I see omments that say that LimeWire will download and run files on the user PC without user consent, i.e. invisibly. That's also compeltely wrong.

There's no more risk in using LimeWire than any browser when browsing the web. There are risks, not because of Limewire, but only because of the nature of the web itself which is completely uncontroled.

LimeWire explicitly says which directories it will share (the only default directory that it shares initially by default is a NEW directory that it creates itself and that is initially completely empty... it can run, with user consent, a sanning tool that will look for possible files to share, but it won't share them without asking the user.

Note that there are some modified versions of LimeWire, not published by LimeWire, on websites that are not under control of LimeWire. Those sites that are promoted on Google by paid advertizing are distributing security-impaired versions that are ALL unsafe to use. Don't download ANY software from advertized links shown at the top of a Google search.

If you need a software (whatever it is) look at the website of its original maker about where it is safe to download them. This is true as well for any reputed vendor (including Microsoft).

If you have paid for getting a copy of Limewire without visiting the true limewire.com website, then you have been phished (by some Google advertizing payers). They not only get the money (LimeWire does not collect anything on those sales), they don't offer any support (LimeWire does supports the free and Pro original versions that it distributes itself from its website).

And definitely, LimeWire is not illegal, not even when used to download copyrighted medias when you can proove that you have a licence for those medias. I use LimeWire each time a media seller fails to deliver me the media I paid for. I have the proof of payment, so if their download does not work as promissed (and this happens on a lot of sites whose DRM system is completely broken or incompatible with my version of Windows or in Media Player, when their proprietary security component fails to install in Windows Media Player), I get another copy of the same media from a P2P network with LimeWire.

I see absolutely no reason why i would have to pay a second time for a media that I have bought a first time but never been able to play. If I have paid for a CD or DVD but damaged it, I still have the original. If I can't play it again, I will download a copy from a P2P network, which is a backup solution for my personal use.

I don't fear any legal injuction if someone detects I am downloading some file, simply because I can proove I have the right to do it with the licence I paid for (my bank billing and the proof of purchase are there.)

If the "legal" media distributors were really doing their work, they would provide backup solutions and true support when a media can't be played. But unfortunately, those "legal" distributors are not doing their job, and refuse to honor their contract when asked, or remain completely inaccessible to perform such request (and this is in contradiction with the existing consumer rights protection laws).

In addition, the first offendors of copyright laws are most often the "legal" distributors that don't have any legal distribution right but accept money from customers. They very regularly break the contracts that link them with media producers, and don't pay them...

Instead of prosecuting customers, start by prosecuting "legal" distributors that make LOTS of profits with your work without authorization. ALL the major online distributors have proven to be guilty of illegal distribution. They buy one copy of the medias they are interested in distributing, from the online catalog of their concurrents, and then start immediately to distribute copies on their own sale network, without asking for permission to the media producers.

Rally, those comments against LimeWire security or legality, read in this forum, are completely giving false information.

I am not sure why you thought I was saying that you must own the copyright in order to download legally? The second sentence in my post is:

Peer-to-peer (P2P) file sharing programs, in and of themselves, are not illegal. However, their most frequent use, trading music WITHOUT A LICENSE, is illegal. Heres how it works

In the next paragraph I wrote:

This law is called the Copyright Law, and it makes the use of your creations, without your permission (which you grant through a license), illegal.

It seems we agree on the need for a license to legally download. The license is the option of the copyright owner, who, by law, is the author of the work of art.

I still do not understand what I stated that you claim to be a lie.

Personally I use Limewire succesfully with no problems and have for a couple years now.
My take on it's legality and copyright. I am a musician and play in a cover band. To keep our setlist up to date with current music we have to have access to the music so that we can learn to play them. It's very convenient to hear a song and download it for learning. If one of our original songs was distributed and other bands want to play it, fantastic! here's another. These greedy musicians and their company's are too busy looking at the dollars and not seeing the whole world of cover bands perpetuating the very music they are making millions on.

Even though my subject title reads "LimeWire Ethics" every MP3 has a rightfull owner who isn't in it for P2P ethics, but is in it to make money.
Long gone are the days of LPs and cassettes.
Our digital age has made it easier to pirate, swap music and movies.
Myself as a striving artist am completley aware of that fact. However that's not going to stop me from producing a piece of music. I won't be able to stop millions from downloading my tracks,, and to me that would be great. The problem I see here is downloading, making CDr copies and $elling them.
Thats where I am stung. I myself download MP3s here and there. I don't however make cds to sell. Besides you can't beat the quality of an original CDA formatted disc.
Mp3s don't sound great in that compressed format, but then again most aren't audiophiles the way I'd like other people to be. There is just no purity in MP3s how can there be, they're compressed files! So who buys compressed files? Those who didn't grow up understanding pure audio cleanliness. In our atomic age don't expect the downloads of MP3s to diminish. Unfortunatley do expect the piracy to continue. The internet knows no boundries and we the users know that we attain almost anything by pressing some keys. How can we give up something so easy?

Yeah, right... you like the hiss, you have the record - plug it to the input on your soundcard and press record. Where here do you have to use p2p, please.

Just A Few Facts.

1. Limewire as a GUI is legal.

2. Most content is protected/copyrighted and NOT intended for 'shareware' , however, unless you download a fierce amount of content, you should not worry.

3. The largest problem is SPyWARE and other Viruses and Browser-Hijacking that occurs from using this companies P2P network.


I am a lead technician for IBM/Lenovo. On our used service days we fix more PCs from Viruses and Malware from Limewire users than any other program or service. Even the best of Antivirus programs will not catch content that is 'planted' by techies who are paid by the Recording Artists Industry as a "ha ha at you" for stealing their material. Advanced PC users can avoid these bad files, but most lamen (average) users will sooner or later end up with a PC that just mis-behaves or has connectivity issues. I know we all want music and whatever, but Limewire is NOT the place to get it.

I do not condone ANY theft of anything copyrighted, but I have heard through the grapevine that the safest out there by far is SoulSeek, and owned offshore (Europe) so they dont have legal issues, and they have scanning practices for some of the the questionable files.

Good Luck Brandy !

David Eaton ranted:

"FOR THOSE OF YOU WITH BLINDERS ON...
by David Eaton Productions - 3/10/07 10:43 AM
In reply to: Limewire by Melcas3

I hope that Mel has read the other posts here, but if it needs to be repeated, here goes:

USING P2P SOFTWARE TO DOWNLOAD COPYRIGHTED MATERIAL WITHOUT THE EXPRESSED CONSENT OF THE COPYRIGHT OWNER, IS ILLEGAL. PERIOD.

Mel, and all others, you may consider yourself notified."


I'm really getting tired of this guy's complaining. He's verbalizing everything that's wrong with the industry - you don't gain and keep loyal customers by threatening to sue them right and left. Small wonder many people are being turned off to music altogether. I certainly have been. And like many on this list, I grew weary of buying a 17-track CD only to have two tracks that were any good. I stopped buying CDs a long time ago. I'll probably never come back. By the same token, DRM is a cluster-frack that, again, discourages people from doing something they have always been able to do in the past: buy music and do what they want with it.


Here are some small inconvenient truths about the music industry:

1. Four major labels control 80% of the music you listen to.
2. 80% of the music you CAN'T listen to any longer - archived tracks from the last 70 years - is also sitting in the vaults of those same labels - and NOT being remastered - it's just sitting there, "copyrighted".
3. A lot of people - understanding the ramifications of #2, above, take it upon themselves to keep the music alive by digitizing their own collections and sharing them, P2P.

In other words, many people join P2P networks to find rare tracks that ARE NO LONGER FOR SALE, BY ANY LABEL, AT ANY PRICE. They may be technically "owned" by the labels, but are no longer "sold" by the labels - but the copyrights may still be valid.

The real battle that is going on is the last gasp of a failing vertical command-control gatekeeping business model for music distribution that is becoming obsolescent with the advent of horizontal digital distribution networks on relatively cheap PCs. As more artists come up, and realize they no longer need "services" like Mr. Eaton's (or EMI's), that high-priced "middleman" will fade away. The result, however, is that 1000 times more music will be legitimately sold to 1000 times more customers for 1000 times more income earned - it just won't be earned by the labels. It will be earned by the artists directly.

And any business model that leaves lawyers unemployed is a good thing.

Since I've had to deal with P2P programs such as Limewire, Kazaa, and others on some of my customer's computers, I can at least address the 'safe' part of this question.

If you ask me, "Is limewire safe to use?" I will return the question by asking you an equally valid question, "Is it safe to drive on the freeway?"
Ans: Even "good" drivers can get into accidents on the freeway and often do.

How many music sharers have gotten their computers infected by the use of a Peer to Peer program?
Ans: Many!

Allowing just "anybody" who happens along the internet to use your computer is just begging for problems and that is exactly what "peer to peer" does. You can always download music using legal means. Allowing the conversion of your "private" computer into an open end "networking" computer by installing a P2P program for the sake of a few free tunes doesn't really make that much sense. Why?? Because you're also allowing people to download items from your computer without your permission.

A hacker can spot your vulnerable computer a thousand miles away and allow you to download a "free" tune with a hidden rider attached, ...namely, a keylogger; but you'll never know that its happened until its too late. And now, ...the hacker has the means to obtain your passwords and other accounts info!! Lovely, huh??

Unlike driving on the freeway which involves the necessity of risk, you DON'T have to take a risk when it comes to downloading music. The good news is that it can be done legally if you're willing to caugh-up a few bucks.

>Trublu

Limewire can be safe to use but also dangerous in the wrong hands. Both your friends and the people at work are correct with their opinions on the software.

Firstly the legalities of Limewire - Yes Limewire is legal software to use as long as you don't use it to infringe copyright. This is the same as using a DVD or Video Recorder to record stuff, it's ok to use a VCR r DVD recorder to record your own home movies but it's a criminal offence to use it to record anything that's copyrighted without the copyright owners permission (and yes that does also include recording TV programmes).

For many years now different recording companies (mainly the RIAA) have been trying to shut things like Limewire down claiming they are illegal, but quite ironically one thing always comes up, this is the case that Sony won many years ago against the movie makers then (and now Sony is on the movie makers end!). This case was regarding the VCR. When the first VCR was made by Sony the movie companies tried to claim that a VCR was an illegal device, because it had no use other than to infringe copyright (and copy movies/TV shows), however Sony pulled up the fact that actually a VCR does have another use that's not illegal, and that's to record your own home movie creations that you hold the copyright for and that it was up to the end user as to how he or she used the device. The courts agreed and allowed Sony to make the VCR (just imagining if Sony had lost the case this could have opened up a load more cases - it might have made the chainsaw an illegal device as it could be used to kill, or pipes illegal as they could be used for smoking illecit substances). So at the end of the day Limewire is only illegal depending on how you use it, and bear in mind that it is you who will be liable for using it illegally.

Then you've also got the question of is it safe to use. Hmmm... this is a tricky one. It's only safe to use if you know how to use it safely (kind of like if you give a child a razor blade and then wonder why it cuts itself). First thing to watch for when using Limewire is viruses, ensure you have a proper virus checker running on your computer and don't open anything that might contain a virus such as .EXE, .COM, Microsoft Office Documents or .VB files. If you really must open anything that could contain a virus run a proper virus checker over it first (I recommend NOD32 from eSet) and if it's an Office document open it with OpenOffice instead of Microsoft Office and disable any Macro's in it. There is less chance of the virus going from Microsoft to OpenOffice but it can happen. Now apart from Viruses you also have to be careful about what you are sharing to the outside world. When you setup Limewire it will ask you what you would like to share with the world, I recommend making a seperate directory and only sharing that, make sure the directory that you share with the outside world doesn't contain any personal information that you don't want the rest of the world to know (like your name/address/bank details/other people's details) as there are people out there that are looking on Limewire for this chance to take your personal files. So be very careful what you share with other people.

And one final thing that will help keep you safe with Limewire is to use a firewall to protect your system, I use both a firewall and PeerGuardian 2 to protect my system. PeerGuardian blocks limewire from attempting to connect to any known hackers websites/servers and this list is updated about once every two days. If you do use PeerGuardian though I would suggest turning logging off or only keep it for a day or else you'll find you have a really big log file taking up most of your computer.