Community Newsletter: Q&A forum: 2/9/07 Is the Linux operating system for me?

There are at least three kinds of "hibernate" and "suspend" available to Linux users: APM, ACPI, and "user mode suspend 2."

Intel is pushing ACPI. Everything has to work perfectly: drivers, BIOS, daemons.

Older laptops have APM. BIOS basically handles it for you. Requires "APM support" in the kernel, and user programs apm and apmd, much simpler to install correctly but fewer features. Some distros don't install it by default.

User suspend 2 is the most primitive. It was invented because so many systems have broken APM or ACPI, or none. Doesn't require any BIOS support to suspend to disk. No daemon to configure. Included in many distros' default kernels. All it does is snapshot the system and hide the snapshot either in RAM or the swap partition. When you boot next, a user-suspend2 aware kernel looks for the hidden snapshot and restores from it if it finds one. It's worked on every system where I've tried it, where APM and ACPI are broken or nonexistent.

Are you sure user-suspend2 doesn't work with your proprietary 3d graphics driver in place? If not, that's a bug, and the user-suspend2 project would appreciate hearing from you about it.

There is lots of helpful advice in the previous answers about Linux, but, let me add a few words. I use Linux both at work and at home. At work, my objective is to have "office productivity" tools with as little fuss about the environment that the tools work in as possible. So, after experimenting for months at a time with various distros (kubuntu - wouldn't install on my hardware, CentOS 4.x - problems with file shares, slackware - too geeky, and so on) I settled on Suse 10.2. For office use, it is stable, provides all the resources (productivity software) that I need, and provides, through KDE (or Gnome) a very friendly work environment. I use firefox for browsing, thunderbird for email, and openoffice for productivity and good compatibility with MS office documents, spread sheets, and presentations. I don't need the various movie players (we don't allow streaming music or video on our network anyhow). I do use VMWare to provide a win 2k environment in order to do some work-related tasks that require windows -- like Visio. The system is stable, provides occasional updates for security and other useful enhancement (but not to the point of being a nuisance). It never crashes or freezes, and I never reboot. If you are just trying to get some work done, it's a really good choice.

At home, I use CentOS 4.4 - it is easier to do some of the geeky things I need, like use the computer as the pppoe client for my dsl connection, provide firewalling and other network services for my home network of 6 computers. But, for relatively comfortable migration, I highly recommend Suse 10.2

I have used alot of operating systems (mac, xp pro, various linux distros {fedora, mandrake, suse, redhat}, and i saw vista the other day at the store...until trying it, i thought it was the greatest thing in the world, but now its just an os lol). <- see the vista remark...i was excited about an os i never even used.

All os's are the same fundementally. some require more under-the-hood maintence then others... i.e. all linux's when you start to really use it. Mac and windows are the same...they just crash differant. It's like having a stack of phone books from differant states... sure they look differant and have differant names but they perform the same and they steal each others features. The point is...don't go to mac for the sake of going to mac...and don't go to linux unless theirs a reason.

The most important question is what software do you wish to run...how much patience do you have to overcome every software and hardware problem you get, which equals close to as much software and hardware that you got...and more importantely do you play any windows videogames that you intend to get working in linux using wine or some wine-based emulation. If no games, then is their programs in linux that will fullfill your every need, presant and forseable future. (their probably is, except for games,...but not every opensource program is as fullfeatured as firefox... some are no more extravigant then wordpad.exe). Also god help you if your audiocard or mouse aren't compatible.

Here's a great example... got a mouse with more then 3 buttons? by default only 3 will work... if you got a m$ mouse then you have to download some community made software that comes in sourcecode form and compile it.

the commands would be like open terminal

cd /root/<main folder of the source code for this thing>

su su means super user...its like vista new thing with limited user accounts and having to enter one everytime you install something...yea same principle

<the root "admin" password>

./configure
make
make install

any one of the last 3 commands can fail if you dont have the right code development libraries installed on your linux... and that means you didn't do a full install of linux and instead clicked the icon for "desktop use" lol

Ok maybe there are things that are pre-installed on your ubuntu... but when you start to use linux like you use windows then you will encounter this and it will be hard... http://www.linuxquestions.org/ you're gonna need it... why dont you do a username search for "focusedwolf" and see how i was when i first used linux.

Another situation...what kind of videocard do you have...ati? or hopefully nvidia which are more linux compatible... if you only intend to used 2d software then this doesnt really matter, but if you intend for 3d effects...then your gonna have to install the proper linux drivers for your computer and no their is no windowsupdate equilivant that autoinstalls drivers. (ahh yum, the best updater...doesn't hang and stall like typical "busy" linux windows...good ole console based commands heh).

I wanted to find something that summed up ubuntu nvidia videocard installing, but this is the best i found for my quick search: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=57368 I only glanced at it and recognized the config file modding you gotta do from similiar fedora nvidia-install's..

My overall opinion... if you get linux...then you WILL WORK to get stuff to work as easily as it does in windows... you will be a master of the terminal if you learn linux, and you will most definatally screw it up on average of 5 times after installing it, resulting in formating if off just to reinstall to undo mistakes you made while setting up some hardware... Like what happened to me when i decided i didnt need to do a full install...and then couldnt compile certain programs that i needed for my mouse and videocard and other stuff.

ok this is to long...im not proofreading it lol.

my professional opinion is vista is good... it has things under the hood that only a sofware writer could appreciate... it will mean startrek 3d interfaces in all software, as soon as people can learn and master xaml designing lol

Also i got office 2007 at home on my xp system and i gotta say its the best most comfortable office program i have ever used in comparison to office 2003...and i did try openoffice in linux, like when i had a dual boot setup going, and my windows side died and needed to work on some office 2003 word documents. It is a joke in comparison to word varients...but it is just good enough to type some dribble in an emergency and get some kind of rudimentary spellcheck going.

"O one more thing...if you do a dualboot setup ...your supposed to install windows first on one partition, then use a program like partition magic and make like a 20gb partition for linux and, i forget the size, but a swap partition for linux aswell..."

Huh?

I've always partitioned a new hard drive with Linux' fdisk or cfdisk. Just make the first partition type NTFS, the next partition Linux swap, and the rest of the partitions whatever. When you install MS-Windows it will use the NTFS partition and pretend the others aren't there. At least it worked that way through Windows-2K.

The swap partition should be twice or three times the size of physical RAM. If you expect to double your RAM next year, just make it six times so you don't have to fiddle with it again.

Hi abhilashveeyes, you're in the wrong forum for that question and you didn't tell us enough to answer it. Please read "How to Ask Questions the Smart Way." http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

If you're asking about an MS-windows setup, please, please, reconsider your decision. We are getting blasted by spam and viruses from Asianet Broadband customers whose MS-Windows systems are compromised. Asianet doesn't seem interested in controlling it, and that is why a lot of North American and European networks are blocking your email. It is *really hard* to make a secure bastion server using MS-Windows. Please use an operating system that was *designed* to be exposed directly to the Internet on a routable IP address. MS-Windows, despite what your salesman tells you, is not designed to be used that way.

Whether you're asking about Linux or MS-Windows, you should find a local professional to help you. It's easy to set up a Linux system to be a firewall, router, email server, and workstation, all at once. (But you really shouldn't. Don't put anything on your firewall machine but the firewall.) But you have to know what you're doing to maintain it and keep it secure enough to bet your business on it. Get someone to show you. That's how people learn any operating system.

I put an all-purpose system like that in a local non-profit in 2003. All their workstations can see out, but nobody can see in. We use the Linux netfilter feature called IP Masquerade. (Cisco calls the same function "many-to-one network address translation with connection tracking.") Read the Linux IP Masquerade HOWTO.

I keep it updated from home. The only attention it ever needed was when some spazz threw it on the floor and cracked the motherboard. Last week I updated it from Debian 3.1 to 4.0, remotely, and broke the firewall! If I had *read the 4.0 release notes* first I would have known what changed and how to turn the firewall back on. And this varies from one distro to the next. You have to read the instructions for your distro.

Assuming I knew you to be a laymen, without professional technical training,... if I disliked you, I might tell you to stick with Windows. If I hated you, I would suggest Linux. As an end-user system, it is only appropriate for geeks who don't need things like off-the-shelf printer support, standard device drivers for modem, graphics, and audio cards, and who don't mind having to go backward 30 years to the command line every time they run into a problem that no one was bothered to write a graphical interface for. You can guess what I'd recommend if I liked you.

Most people choose the blue pill, and they're happy dreaming in their pods.

http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0133093/

Would your answer change if the purpose of the system was solely to use a Windows XP PC as a web server with Apache? Then, what flavor of Linux would you recommend? And, would you recommend a dual-boot with the Windows XP and the Lunix, or go strictly with the Linux and get rid of the Windows? Thanks. Dick K.

. . .there is a SECOND question:

"When?"

That one is harder to answer, but easier to determine.

Most users have basic needs -- email, browser, word processing, spreadsheet -- and a wider list of wants. It's the wants that are the real issue. It doesn't matter how stable, safe and power your operating system is, if the applications that you need aren't available.

I suggest that, before you move to Linux, you start going to open-source applications which have both Windows and Linux versions.

If you switch to Thunderbird (email), Firefox (browser) and OpenOffice (office suite) while still on Windows, you can see if you like them.

Once you're up to speed on the applications that you use the most, then you can set up a "dual-boot" system on your computer, which allows you to launch Windows or Linux. Start booting Linux (I suggest the KDE desktop interface, which looks and acts much the same way that Windows does), and only boot Windows when you need to use an application for which you haven't found a Linux replacement.

The advantage of using Thunderbird, Firefox and OpenOffice is that whichever system you've booted, you can use the same application and same data sets.

Eventually, you will find yourself no longer booting Windows at all. At that point, you have migrated.

Sounds like a lot of you have some great experience in setting up Linux systems and several of you mentioned using a dual boot mehtod. How do you go about setting that up?

Are there any GOOD instructions out on the net? I've checked out some of them and found most to be way too confusing to try.

Thanks,
Jeff

I just want to say that I am so glad Patti asked this question and It is posted in this Newsletter.
A friend and co-worker of mine helped me re-install Window98 back on my computer yesterday and he wanted me to try Fedora Linux because he don't Love Windows. He partition my hard-drive and he installed windows98 on the first partition and then he installed Fedora on the other. I can now boot up Fedora or Windows98.
My question is do you have to know how to use linux's command in order to kept the Fedora or any of the other linux's Operating System operating smoothly. I saw him set up the terminal on my task bar and when I click on it, it opens a window with something that looks like a DOS prompt. I do not know what commands to use there and I was wondering if I would have to learn linux commands in order to use it correctly. I am a newbee to Fedora or any of the linux OS's but I have read the posting here about it and I wasn't sure that this is something I have to do. I mean learn a new programming language.

Thanks for your Help
Butter

Clsgis
Thank You for replying to my question and you make real good since about being able to get information about what you are doing on computer.
I need to know if all the commands in the different flavors of Linux are universal and is there a book that is simple or easy to read that a newbee would or could understand. If so could you give me the name.

I am using Fedora, which my friend install on my computer for me to use, to see if I would like it better than windows. He wanted me to see that Fedora could do the same things that Windows does, but you have recommended Knoppix. Can I run it alone with Fedora by using the boot CD too or do I have to install it on my hard-drive too.

Thank You again for your help.
Butter

Clsgis
I do Love Cnet for having a place where a person can come and get great information and help from the member community. Now that I have said that, I want to Thank You for the replies to my questions about Linux. A big light bulb went off in my old head this morning when I read your answer about linux commands being univeral UNIX commands.
Some many, many years ago I have the opportunely to have some training on a Unix machine. I did learn alot of unix commands in order to do the work that I was doing but I have forgotten them because I have not need to use them. Now I remember some of the commands that you are talking about like the "man", "who", ls", and "grep".
They all started to come back to me when you said Unix. I even have an old book that we got in training called "A Practical Guide to Unix System V" by Mark G Sobell.
Now you know that I am dating myself. LOL

But again I just wanted to Thank You Again for all your help.

I am on my way to re-learn something new that I had forgotten.
Butter

The ONLY true UNIX-based box for the Personal computer world is Mac OS X. It will not only run Berkeley's UNIX, it runs ANY MSFT Windows system, plus any of the Open Source Linux systems , PLUS VM ware OS, and on & on... Sorry, Apple makes you buy their HW at a premium price... But, you get what you pay for.

I recently used a 3rd party Partitioner (there is a free one in Linux 'iparted') to properly re-partition my main HD. And, iPartition allows one to pre-size the two needed linux partiitons prior to installing. I first tried using the Ubuntu Partitioner and that was a disaster. Not until I finagled my available space so Linux would NOT take it ALL, was an install successful.

My Ubuntu 6.06 LTS (Long Term Stability) system installed from the 'Live CD' I received from the Ubuntu community. Updates are numerous at the start, but eventually slow down to a small one every 10 days or so.

What was the hardest for me is to immerse myself into the linux "culture" . Basically that is an educational process (and one of the reasons I started the Linux study in the first place). And this remark leads me to my advice: IF you really HAVE to stick with Windows, by all means take the expert advice from the other posters and 'migrate', do not dive in cold turkey!. Especially if you have never used the UNIX terminal command language before. I started on UNIX boxes in the late 70's - early 80's so, and I continue to use OS X terminal command language in maintenance of OS X..

To close, I don't 'really' expect you to buy a Mac. Just be sure to START with Windows (XP SP2 instead of Vista?) and follow the advise to move slowly into Linux.

Cheers, Jim B

Sure, why not. Any disk drive. If your BIOS can't boot it, you'll have to keep a CD around for that.