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Windows 95/98: W98SE move_rebuild - memory
W98SE move_rebuild - memory
by broke - 1/17/05 1:39 PMConsidering how often people re-install, I was surprised not to find this before.
I am moving a working Win98SE system from a 8Gig hard drive 96Meg memory system to a 20Gig partition (on a 160Gig drive) of a system with 3Gig memory. The result will only boot in command-line-only mode, not even "SAFE": wierdly, gives message that there is not enough memory to run Windows!
I've been working this for a while, and I think I may have found an answer in an old MS article, 184447, Win95/98 will not work on systems with over 1Gig of memory: the article says sometimes, but I found a reference that it does not work PERIOD. Also articles 253912 and 304943.
Workarounds given: system.ini vcache section, add/change MaxFileCache to under 500Meg --- 386enh section add MaxPhysPage to 1Gig or less, add SystemRomBreakPoint=1 (false), and for EMM do not use storage potentially in use by video hardware etc, ie add "EMMExclude=A000-FFFF" --- msdos.sys alter Doublebuffer=2 --- System.ini MAYBE add "ConservativeSwapfileUsage=1"
Still won't boot, and "MEM /C" looks like it is still trying to handle 3Gig instead of 1Gig.
Oh, and trying to get a BOOTLOG goes nowhere, seems the file is not closed (and thus does not get into directory) until the boot - including Windows - comes up. Whoopee. I even tried adding a line in Autoexec to rename Win.Com so it won't be found and adding a Win.bat that just renames it back. Works, leaves me in command-line mode no matter how I specify to boot, but not enough to close and access BOOTLOG!
So, how do I convince it that if MEM knows there is 500+ K of low memory (below 640K "limit") available, it can run Windows?
Re: memory problems.
by Kees Bakker
- 1/17/05 2:16 PM
In reply to: W98SE move_rebuild - memory by broke
Broke,
You can't really blame Microsoft for limiting Windows 98 to a lesser amount then 3 Gb memory, I think. That just was near impossible 7 years ago.
Anyway, I would suggest you remove enough memory sticks to have maximum 512 Mb (that's the recommended maximum for Windows 98, as fas as I know). You might find the other options interesting also.
Then boot (that should work) and use MSCONFIG>General>Advanced to limit the memory to 512 Mb and shutdown. Then try it with the full 3 Gb. The guy who wrote MSCONFIG should know how to do it, I suppose. And if that doesn't work, I'm afraid your alternatives are either Windows XP or a permanent reduction of your RAM.
There have been discussions on this forum on large hard disk support for Windows 98. For FDISK coming with Windows 98, 2 Gb is a 'large disk', but it seems that there might be problems with 160 Gb disks. I mean, not only > 137 Gb partitions, but < 137 Gb partitions on a > 137 Gb disk also. The situation is rather unclear to me. It might depend on the BIOS. I hope you won't find your next problem here.
Kees
You are a great test case for "Windows 98 Support".
by R. Proffitt - 1/17/05 2:18 PM
In reply to: W98SE move_rebuild - memory by broke
I keep laughing as I read that Microsoft is extending Windows 98 support on and on. It would be interesting to see if Microsoft can support you on this issue or just tell you it doesn't work and call that support.
Bob
I don't know if you
by TONI H - 1/17/05 2:20 PM In reply to: W98SE move_rebuild - memory by brokehave sticks of ram that can be removed (take out two if each one is 1GB). Then if you can get windows to boot up, even in safemode then you can change the MSCONFIG Advanced area to limit it to 512MB instead, and add the other two sticks after shutting down. You won't be able to use them, but they'll be safe in the system until you upgrade to XP or something else later that can handle all of it.
My old W98SE system would boot up fine with 1GB and actually work well.....until I put in a new piece of hardware later down the road and then I had to kick it back in MSCONFIG.
This is the only solution I can think of right quick.
TONI
I was successful when I had two 512 sticks
by Ray Harinec - 1/17/05 4:10 PM In reply to: W98SE move_rebuild - memory by brokeremoved one and set to limit to 512 in the advanced section of MS Config, as Toni said. It booted fine. Then I put the second 512 stick in and the first boot said not enough memory, rebooted and never had another problem with 1 GB in but set to use only 512.
I understand that the success can vary with the mobo and chipset.
Try a RAMdrive
by jkp - 1/18/05 2:13 AM In reply to: W98SE move_rebuild - memory by brokeIf you get your system working with the 512 MB limit you might then try using Franck Umberto's freeware XMSDSK handler in your autoexec.bat to create a 2 GB RAMdrive using RAM from the top down so Windows never knows it's there. You could then place the Windows swapfile, %temp%, and all caches (Temporary Internet Files, Firefox cache, etc.) in the RAMdrive with space to spare.
I'm running 98SE in 512 MB. On boot, I set up a RAMdrive of 128 MB and use it for a DOS commands folder and browser caches. As far as Windows is concerned, I only have 384 MB.
You can get the program here: http://shareware.pcmag.com/product.php%5Bid%5D4825%5Bcid%5D242%5BSiteID%5Dpcmag
For a good XMS driver, try http://www.mdgx.com/umb.htm
John
Hmm - might work!
by broke - 1/18/05 9:18 AM In reply to: Try a RAMdrive by jkpRemove memory sticks? Well, as a last resort. I prefer this XMSDSK idea.
Just tried this as a quickie, and got to the boot logo screen. Now, I've altered CONFIG.SYS extensively, using various idas taken (OK, stolen) From MadDog's MadBoot setup, and I'm pretty sure something in there is keeping me from finishing - most of his EMM386 commands include "NOEMS" and I've had trouble with that before, may have inadvertently put it back when I added the XMSDSK driver command.
XMSDSK setup
by jkp - 1/18/05 7:11 PM In reply to: Hmm - might work! by brokeIt will probably work better if you use Umbpci.sys instead of Emm386.exe. You can read about it and obtain it from the second link I posted (repeated here) http://www.mdgx.com/umb.htm
Following are applicable lines from my boot script files. Many settings
are based on tips from Axcel216 (link above).
------------------------------------
In C:\Msdos.sys:
[Options]
LoadTop=0
------------------------------------
In C:\Windows\System.ini:
; UMB usage
; following needed for my dual monitors
; EMMEXCLUDE=C800-CBFF
; My preference -- keep all UMB's for DOS stuff
EMMEXCLUDE=A000-FFFF
------------------------------------
In C:\Config.sys
LASTDRIVEHIGH=Z
; The next ensures, the normally unneccessary, Setver.exe
; does not load and eat up a pile of low or UMB RAM
DOS=HIGH,UMB,NOAUTO
DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\HIMEM.SYS /NUMHANDLES=128 /TESTMEm:oFF
; Note Umbpci has far fewer switches than Emm386.
; In the following, I omit the range C900-CBFF because my
; dual monitor setup requires it and neither Umbpci nor Emm386 is
; smart enough to recognize this automatically. The UMB's are broken
; into two ranges because I load Smartdrv in Autoexec.bat and
; need to ensure it's above DFFF for floppy DMA (see Umbpci docs).
DEVICE=D:\DOS\UMBPCI.SYS /I=CC00-DFFF /I=E000-EFFF
; This is required because of the "NOAUTO" switch above.
DEVICEHIGH /L:1,3712 =C:\WINDOWS\IFSHLP.SYS
; I got the "DEVICEHIGH /L:1,3712 =" by using Memmaker.exe from DOS 6.22
; in several test configurations. To use Memmaker, ensure the following
; files are in C:\ and BootGui=0 is set in Msdos.sys until done. After use,
; replace the Emm386 line in Config.sys with the desired Umbpci line and
; delete these files:
; CHKSTATE.SYS 5/31/94 6:22
; EMM386.EXE 4/23/99 10:22
; HIMEM.SYS 4/23/99 10:22
; MEMMAKER.EXE 5/31/94 6:22
; MEMMAKER.HLP 5/31/94 6:22
; MEMMAKER.INI 5/31/94 6:22
; SIZER.EXE 5/31/94 6:22
------------------------------------
In C:\Autoexec.bat
Rem Load ramdisk as drive Z: with smallest possible cluster size
Rem (xmsdsk will adjust as required) allocating RAM off the top so
Rem Windows never knows it's there ("/T")
D:\DOS\XMSDSK.EXE 131072 Z: /C1 /T /Y
Rem Put my most commonly used commands in Z:, recreate folders
Rem for DOS and browser caches, and set Comspec to ramdisk.
Rem Pkunzip can be replaced with FreeDOS Unzip--just keep
Rem it to a 16-bit program.
Z:
D:\DOS\PKUNZIP.EXE -d D:\DOS\RAMDISK.ZIP
SET PATH=Z:\DOS;D:\DOS;D:\DOS\BATCH;C:\WINDOWS;C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND
Rem Keys.com is a compiled batch to set Doskey macros
Z:\DOS\KEYS.COM > NUL
IF EXIST Z:\DOS\COMMAND.COM SET COMSPEC=Z:\DOS\COMMAND.COM
C:
------------------------------------
Wowser!
by broke - 1/18/05 9:55 PM In reply to: XMSDSK setup by jkpThat is probably going to save me a lot of time, instead of attempting to do it from scratch without knowing much about the whole business. I haven't had to get in this deep since kicking "Eh? Oh, Hell!" off my system after a week of test back in the mid-90's.
Nearly there thanks
by broke - 1/19/05 10:35 AM In reply to: XMSDSK setup by jkpIt booted OK! Thanks! EMM did NOT want to cooperate - UMB did!
Well, almost OK, there's always something. The registry is messed up, which I expected, but of course it won't let me finish starting Windows (even Safe mode) to fix it. Starts adding new hardware, eventually dies without finishing. Scanreg with no parameters says the registry is OK, but that just means format and content, not values: scanreg "/fix" dies with a weird message about disk space. But I think I can just restart and bypass the "add new hardware" wizard(s) and see if I can get started.
Working now
by broke - 1/19/05 4:11 PM In reply to: XMSDSK setup by jkpWell, I let the hardware-add wiz do a couple of things skipped others, rebooted - several iterations. Finally came up clean.
Then installed software for the motherboard (temperature monitors and so forth) and the video card. It is here that I felt quite dumb: the installs kept bombing on addressing problems, tok me a while to figure out that maybe running the FreeRam program was not too bright of me.
So, now to shut down this system, move the broadband cable over to the new one, move the page file onto the RAM... er, XMSDSK, and do some housekeepig of some junk. Then it's on to figure out (re-)install of XPPro.
With a 2 GB RAMdisk, things should fly
by jkp - 1/19/05 4:23 PM In reply to: Working now by brokeGlad I could help.
One final note: don't change the volume name of the RAMdrive. Franck Umberto set it to MS-RAMDRIVE so that Windows wouldn't switch all drives to "MS-DOS compatibility mode" because of an unknown TSR. (The OS is, of course, too Windozy to verify it's not really the MS RAMdrive). 
John
Dos to Windows - Good 2 see A Ramdisk Solution - Again
by Irv Rogers - 1/22/05 12:21 AM In reply to: With a 2 GB RAMdisk, things should fly by jkpRe Win98SE memory boot options. RamDisk = RamDrive
I used to run Acad in Dos completely on a 2 MB RamDisk (16M Ram) on an AT Clone. I would autosave my work in a Acad working directory. In the days of the 16 MHZ AT I felt my ACAD zooms were blazingly fast using this method. Good to see this still is a viable move.
The New Windows, although functionality far more exciting, and huge program file sizes
still may not truly justify the excess memory and storage requirements of today.
I guess Apple initially set the mark for a "pretty multitasking ?" user interface (race),
- it looks like Bill took the ball and is complexly winning ? Regards Irv
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