General Mac hardware discussions: OSX 80g HD need partition?
OSX 80g HD need partition?
by iris2048 - 11/9/04 12:07 PMI'm a medium level PC user (build my own etc.) but my partner is a MAC fan. We're getting a PowerBook 15" with 80g HD. I wouldn't let a PC come in the house unpartitioned, but what about the powerbooks? Do Apples work so efficiently they don't need the extra tweaking that a PC requires?
If it's advisable to partition this 80 gigs of space, any software recommended over others? Also, the OSX is coming already installed, along with a litany of software. Can I just back that all up to a CD? Does it have the equivalent of registry?
Thanks (looking forward to increasing my knowledge),
Linda
Re: OSX 80g HD need partition?
by ahmed_88 - 11/11/04 11:16 PM In reply to: OSX 80g HD need partition? by iris2048I have read some information explaining the lack of need for partioning of MAC hard drives on MacNN.com
Please visit their forum at http://forums.macnn.com/ for assistance with your question. You will have a better chance for some insightful information on those forums.
Cheers!
Re: OSX 80g HD need partition?
by farmerbob - 11/11/04 11:30 PM In reply to: OSX 80g HD need partition? by iris2048I have been using Macs since they first came out and have long since adopted the PC wisdom of partitioning. Although there are many opponents, it is a very good idea especially with the continuous idiosyncrasies of the newer operating systems. This is a rule that has come about from "trial by fire".
I have all my main drives partitioned:
1. MacOS 10.x (15GB)
2. MacOS 9.x ( 5GB)
3. Files and applications that are not required to be on the OS applications folder. (the leftover)
At least three partitions. This is the only way to be safe if 10.x hammers and you have to reinstall, and I am seeing in the Apple Discussion areas where more people are having to reformat the drive which wipes out everything. If you have it partitioned, then you will only lose what was on that partition and all the rest is safe. I even put important support folders that can leave the OS partition (and some that they say can't) onto the files area. It may be a little more work linking/aliasing support folders back from the files partition. But when it hammers then you'll have all your eMail files, paid for iTunes music files, iPhotos, and the like all safe and sound. And these days you can't be too safe! iTunes and a couple other apps will now let you have folders off elsewhere and link to them through the application. So this tells me that the need for "remote" storage becoming more common, if not necessary.
Partitioning is not necessary. It is a lifesaver. You'll realize it after your first major crash. And you will have at least one. . . .
Re: OSX 80g HD need partition?
by Mendieta - 11/12/04 12:10 AM In reply to: Re: OSX 80g HD need partition? by farmerbobPlease note that OSX is not the Mac's previous OS's, or a decsendant of them, OSX is a UNIX Operating System that was developed starting from BSD (another Unix OS), by default most Unixes are installed using more than one partition, but when you use file managers you don't see Drives as in windows, Unixes Mount everything partitions & folders all as folders starting from a root partition / (Root), most partitions are mounted in /mnt folder so you don't see drives but /mnt/hda1 for example, ("hd" is an IDE hard disk "a" is your Master Drive in first controller 1 is the first partition), and so on, hd means IDE Drives, sd means SCSI drives, fd means Floppy drives, cdrom means IDE or SCSI cd-roms, a,b,c,d, etc. means the controller where your drive is installed & numbers 1,2,3,4,5, etc. are the partition numbers of each drive.
Visit this web site:
http://forums.macnn.com/forumdisplay.php?s=be7d1aba461123ca3e9e10a8171bd342&forumid=54
Hope this will be useful to you.
Re: OSX 80g HD need partition?
by olegg - 11/12/04 1:06 AM In reply to: OSX 80g HD need partition? by iris2048Linda, I've been using a mac for some years now and I remember partitioning pc's and other platforms (i.e. Atari with a 700 meg hard drive and 13 partitions) but I've never even considered partitioning my 80 gig on my iMac or the 250 gig external. In fact, I'm hard pressed to remember why I partitioned except for deficiencies in the operating system because of the lack of their ability to find things.
Having said that, you could partition and have separate operating systems on each partition which makes it convenient to clean up the hard drive while in single user mode (a unix command line mode with no gui interface) if you are into Unix type commands like (sbin/fsck -fy). That cleans up your OS X file system nicely on an unmounted hard drive partition if it needs it.
Re: OSX 80g HD need partition?
by mrmacfixit
- 11/12/04 5:02 AM
In reply to: OSX 80g HD need partition? by iris2048
I don't believe it is necessary to partition this drive under OS X
One of the main reasons for partitioning a drive, back in the day, was because of the way the system handled the allocation blocks. For instance, when you formatted a floppy disk(remember those) the allocation blocks would be, for the sake of this conversation, 1K. So a 500K file would fill up 500 of the blocks and report its size as 500K.
The larger the drive, the larger the allocation blocks became. So it you had a huge drive, the allocation blocks, again for this conversation only, would be 450K each. So the same 500K file would fill up two of the allocation blocks and report its size as 1MB. This is because only one file can be in any one block at the same time. So, partitioning the drive forced allocation blocks to be smaller and the drive to hold closer to its actual size.
With the advent of NTFS(PC) and HFS+(Apple) this is no longer the case. Remember, even if you have three partitions on the drive, if the drive fails, you have lost ALL the partitions.
Bottom line, it is not necessary to partition, the Mac will not run any faster, but there is nothing to stop you from doing it if you wish to keep some things separate
Re: OSX 80g HD need partition?
by vietman - 11/12/04 6:39 AM In reply to: OSX 80g HD need partition? by iris2048Linda,
I've been running Mac OS X on a 120gb drive unpartioned without any problems for over a year now. I would almost recommend not partitioning the drive because OS X likes to have all its programs and files on the system drive. iTunes likes to have all of its music in the iTunes library folder, iPhoto likes its pictures in its library folder, and both of these folders appear in your system drive. Also, most new software must be installed in the same partition as the OS.
As mentioned by other posters, if you are planning on running OS 9 and X, a partition might be helpful...but if you are sticking with X, I don't think you need to!
If you do want to partition, and the computer is coming brand new from Apple, you don't need to worry about backing anything up. Apple sends a restore disk that contains a disk image of the computer in the state that it was shipped, making a system restore very simple. As far as partitioning software goes...the last time I partitioned my drive was under OS 9 and I just used the partition option that the Mac gave me, seemed to work fine...maybe others have a good third-party software package recommendation.
Good Luck!
-alex
Re: OSX 80g HD need partition?
by topofmountain213 - 11/12/04 7:36 AM In reply to: Re: OSX 80g HD need partition? by vietmanHonestly, I see no need to partition under OS X. The only time you might want to do this is if you are going to be installing multiple operating systems, and that would just be to keep them seperate. As long as you remain with OS X, you will not need to partition. However, if you want to partition, such as keeping one set of files on one partition, another on a different one, you could do that.
If you are going to partition, do it when the Mac is brand new, out of the box. Don't get anything you want on the drive, because it must be erased to partition.
To do the partition, use the Disk Utility CD that came with your Powerbook. Make sure that you leave adequite space on each partition.
Hope this helps ya!
Re: OSX 80g HD need partition?
by aln1215 - 11/12/04 10:45 AM In reply to: Re: OSX 80g HD need partition? by topofmountain213YES! Partition.
In reading over this thread (and a similar one here talking about partitioning Windows systems) everyone is making valid points about partitioning. Points about how it used to be a good idea so the storage method is more efficient etc.
But nobody has made the following point:
I partition for two reasons. The first is to protect my data. (this applies to both Windows and Mac). By splitting the hard drive into two and putting my data on one drive and the System files on the other when/if the system crashes my data is still safe on the other partition. Yes if the hard drive itself goes up in smoke I may be lost. But, especially in the Windows world, I find it far more likely for a software crash than a hardware failure.
In the Mac partitioning is a BREEZE with the tools that came with the Mac (OS X). Go to the Applications folder then Utilities ... In there you should find "Disk Utility". This tool will enable you to partition the hard drive (among other things) on the fly! No need to back up (but it is always a good idea to back up!). Just make sure any partitions you create are in UN-USED space! So if you have say 12 GB of files etc. on your system make sure your first partition is no smaller than this - I'd suggest, in this scenario, to create a 18 to 20 GB partiton. This assumes all the Software you want is installed.
In the Windows world it is a bit more problematic. Either get some third party softweare such as Partition Magic or PLAN AHEAD and partition before installing the software etc. Once you get it Partitioned and the OS etc. installed, if you have TweakUI installed, it is a breeze to "move" My Documents and the Desktop folder to the Data Partition.
Now for the other reason I partition into a "Programs" partition and a "Data" partition; disk utilities. Defragging a 80 GB or 120 GB or whatever huge hard drive you have can take a while... But if your Program partition is only 15 or 20 GB, which is probably as big as you'll need, defragging that partition will go much faster. Defrag the Program partition frequently, especially if it is a Windows PC, and defrag the Data partition as it needs. I have my Windows system set to defrag the Program partition every night and the Data partition once a week.
Ahh... A couple more points need to be made:
With very large hard drives I use the Data partition to store the installation files for what is installed on the system. Sometimes this doesn't work because the software vendor has blocked your ability to copy their software but when it works it can make life easy. Especially when you restore your system down the road. For example copy the MS Office CD onto the Data hard drive (in a folder by itself!) and then install from there. Doing it this way will mean if the system needs the CD down the road it'll get it off the hard drive.
Try it! You'll like it.
Another point:
If you are about to Restore your system from a restore disk Partition first and then when you run the Restore it'll ask which partition you want to restore to. I did this with a Windows ME system a couple of weeks ago and it worked like a charm.
M
Re: OSX 80g HD need partition?
by bruceyoung - 11/12/04 11:15 AM In reply to: OSX 80g HD need partition? by iris2048Hi,
OS X does not require partitions, and does a much better job of file management than OS 9 (which is good, since the OS X system stuff is thousands upon thousands of files... way more than OS 9).
That said, for myself and many others, partitioning is a good way to speed up disk volume (partition) access and tasks, and a good way to keep data organized, as well as being easier to back up.
For myself, I have an 80 GB drive with 4 partitions:
- 15GB for my OS X (10.3 Panther) and all of my installed applications. (Though you could probably get by with 10 GB, or even 6 or 8, depending on the size of your installed apps. Remember to always keep about 15% free space on the boot partition for the OS work files (which are mostly invisible).)
- 4 to 5 GB for a second OS X fall back partition. (It's easier to reboot from it with an earlier version of OS X for testing & disk repair -- 10.2.6 Jaguar for me.)
- 4 GB or so for my internet cache files (which are constantly written and re-written) and work area.
- 50+ GB (whatever is the remaining space) for Data (which includes my iTunes mp3/aac cd music as well).
You do NOT need a special program. Just use Apple's Disk Utility on the OS X installer disk to select multiple Mac partitions, then use the diagram and size field to adjust. It may take a few tries to get the sizing right so that your data ends up with the maximum of 50+ GB available. Resizing and repartitioning is fast. And of course, you will then reinstall OS X (and latest Apple udpdate) to your main, first partition after that is done.
You will find some folks are very particular with insisting you should or should not partition. Read the recomendations, then do what you feel seems best for your work habits. All the best.
Re: OSX 80g HD need partition?
by crescentdave - 11/12/04 1:35 PM In reply to: OSX 80g HD need partition? by iris2048Am unsure as to the "special tweaking" a pc needs (especially newer ones), but aside from the urban myth, the basic reason for partitioning is organization and safeguarding of data.
Excellent posts already given.
OSX 80g HD need partition?
by peter L - 12/24/04 9:14 AM In reply to: OSX 80g HD need partition? by iris2048Hi,
pros and cons for partitioning are all said now,but all the main programs Itune.Iphoto . . . do not require the data on the startup disk.So please partition,if you like to save on DVD partition like those + >10% so 6 or 10 Gb this makes the job easy.and Disk utility has a build in back-up feature.(don't waste money on a back up program).Use it on a partition.I do it every month or before a major upgrade.
hope this helps
Peter
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