PC hardware: Power supplies for PCs: How much power is enough & what brands are best?
- 10/16/09 3:27 PM
Barely Runs
by NBK_Viper - 10/21/09 7:44 PM In reply to: could barely run it.? by larryandcathieAt full load I didn't have enough power to continuosly run any types of games or run multiple windows multiple apps due to full load power consumption needed by hardware like a graphics card. One thing I will say though is that SATA I/II drives do use alot less power now and motherboards are becoming more efficient when it comes to what you CPU needs for efficiency.
350 Watt is enough
by Ju1iet - 10/17/09 6:42 AM In reply to: OCZ StealthXStream 400 Watt by NBK_ViperI calculated the overall power consumption for my system using http://www.extreme.outervision.com/psucalculatorlite.jsp and it's consuming 220 Watts approximately under recommended conditions that are %85 CPU utilization and %90 system load. At full load it needs 254 Watts. Here is the configuration:
- AMD Athlon64 X2 5400 Brisbane
- 2x1 GB DDR2 800 RAM
- HIS Radeon HD3850 256 MB
- Caviar Black 500GB
- Samsung DVD-RW
- 6 USB devices incl. keyboard and mouse
- Front bay card reader and LCD
Perhaps, using a higher wattage PSU than needed make the PSU even quieter. Let's say you have a 550 Watt PSU and your rig draws 275 Watts from it. Then the components inside the PSU will be cooler than an average 300 Watt model and its fan will rotate slower than the second one's, leading to silence. There are even semi-fanless PSUs in the market whose fans don't run under 60 degrees Celsius.
Also, the components are made more power saver everyday. Even the latest powerful graphics cards need less power than their predecessors. So buying a higher PSU thinking of the future is nonsense.
Mushkin EP-400 AP
by Ju1iet - 10/17/09 7:37 PM In reply to: OCZ StealthXStream 400 Watt by Ju1ietAlso, if you can find, Mushkin EP-400 AP will be a very good choice. It has a modular design and built-in fan controllers.
OCZ 500 Watt
by ken1129 - 10/19/09 7:14 AM In reply to: OCZ StealthXStream 400 Watt by Ju1ietI'm using an OCZ 500 Watt PSU without any problems. I have a AMD X2 6000+, ATI Radeon 3850, 4 hard drives, DVD Burner, 2 TV Tuner Cards and 5 fans. I think it's the quality of the PSU more then the claimed Wattage output.
PSUs are getting fatter
by F_demon - 10/9/09 4:17 PM In reply to: Power supplies for PCs: How much power is enough & what brands are best? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
PSU's are nowadays available in the range of 80-1000+ Watt.
For an average pc 300W is more than enough, only when you start overclocking your cpu, or have top of the line or even multiple graphics cards then you need more.
Peolple choose a 700W psu because they need the amperage provided on a single rail. Most often because they have very power hungry videocards that can take up to 300W each.
Another reason why people take a larger psu than needed is because of efficiency. Generally speaking, most psu's are most effecient around 50% of their rated power.
So for example, if you have a computer that might use 300W at full load (with everything working at their maximum speed), then it might be usefull to get a psu that can output 500-600W, so that it is always within the efficiency band.
It also causes less stress and thus wear on the psu and might mean it can run quieter.
However, looking at your system, I think 600W is serious overkill.
I myself have a reasonably good gaming system, with a Intel Core2Duo E8400 with a slight overclock, and a Nvidia 8800GT.
I have a 520W psu, but since I have a power meter I know it pulls 140W at idle and maybe 220W at full load.
Other appliances such as surround sound and your screen don't take their power from the psu of the computer, so forget about them.
If you want a rough estimation on how much your computer might use, go to: [url=http://extreme.outervision.com/psucalculator.jsp[/url]
Take the 'lite' version and just search for the components you have and press 'calculate'.
Now it isn't a definitive answer, because high-end graphics cards might need more Ampere than the psu can provide, but it is a very good indication and you can always have other people look that up for you.
Some good brands for psu's are:
-Antec
-Be Quiet!
-Cooler Master
-Corsair
-Enermax
-Nexus
-Seasonic
-Silverstone
-OCZ
-Zalman
These are just a few good brands that are available in my area, so this list is not exclusive.
One final thing to note is modular or non-modular psu's.
With Modular psu's you can just plug in the cables or connections you need and leave the rest free, which results in better airflow, because less cables are used.
They are however more expensive.
Hope that helps.
Tell us a bit more of your pc and what upgrades you would like to perform.
Power Supply
by NBK_Viper - 10/9/09 4:22 PM In reply to: Power supplies for PCs: How much power is enough & what brands are best? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
Buying a power supply can be tricky but if you do a little research you'll find you can make a choice you'll be happy with now and in the future. You don't seem to have a tremendous need for a large power supply based on information given about your system but a larger power supply will do you more headroom for upgrades and less problems likely when you run intensive software. Corsair TX750 (750 Watt PSU) is rated as one of the best you can buy and has whats considered true power, which means it can withstand a higher load with minimal loss therefore staying near its recommended rating. Antec, Corsair, and Thermaltake have some of the top rated PSU's. Staying between 750-1000 Watts will definately make sure you have enough power. When in doubt look at a gaming system for reference they have the highest system specifications and power consumption by components. I hope you can find the right power supply.
power
by tedtks - 10/9/09 4:35 PM In reply to: Power supplies for PCs: How much power is enough & what brands are best? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
you didnt say who made the psu's or where u got them.
I have had a 750 thermaltake for a couple years.
but, to be honest - I also have a 350w.
the 350 powers the fans, disette and cd/dvd (2) drives and
I have 6 120mm high cfm fans.
the 750 does the mobo, video card and 2 hd's.
I nave never had to replace psu's and I still have 2 of
my older pc's 18yrs and 8yrs.
I had a side bizness repairing pcs and replaced quite a
few psu's. all of them were in cheaper pc.s and were
usually no-name or made in tiwan etc... cheapo's.
if you have a good brand then have u had a lot of power
fluctuations in the last 2 years? could be getting spikes
that will take them out. I run everything thru ups's plus
thermaltake plug in bars to take the hit first.
might check where the wire bundle runs in your case to
see if they go thru a hole that was never smoothed at the
factory - run some duct tape around the hole to smooth it out
You can never have tooooo much power !! I always get units
that are WAY over rated for the needs of the parts. that way
it never is working at full power and thus lowers heat problems.
also - dont plug peripherals into the back of the pc/ power supply.
creates way to much draw. use a protected power strip.
VOLTAGE BABY!!!
by rongreenfield6 - 10/17/09 7:09 AM In reply to: power by tedtksHey Did anyone mention the house voltage.
When I was at U of R. One of the buildings was
burning thru its florescent lighting at a rapid rate.
they finally figured out the the buildings main transformer feed was wrong ant the voltage was near 130 VAC instead of 122.5 VAC
(which seems to be standard where I am)
You need to put an accurate Volt meter on a house plug
and see if its over 122.5 V. If it is that could be the problem.
Ron G
PC Power Supplies
by Zouch - 10/9/09 4:58 PM In reply to: Power supplies for PCs: How much power is enough & what brands are best? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
Hi Bill,
a bit more detaail on your system spec would be helpful but in principle, what you need to do is add up the power ratings of all the components, add a bit for contingency (I add 25%) and that should give you a good guide as to the power supply you need.
You should be able to find the power ratings on the component boxes, unless you buy OEM parts and then you'll need to go to the manufacturers' sites to get the information.
It's unlikey that all the components will be drawing maximum power at the same time, except perhaps at startup but adding them all together will give another safety buffer.
Graphics cards can be very heavy power drains - if they come with a supplementary power feed, make sure that supply is adequate too.
Disks, when spinning and, particularly when starting up, will also take a heavy power drain.
That said, 600w is a pretty substantial PSU - unless you have a really wild graphics/disk configiration, I'd have thought that would have been adequate for a P4 at 3 Ghz - Prescott, I presume? I have a converted server with that chip (I added a decent sound card, a mid range Graphics card, a couple of extra ethernet cards, DVD/RW etc.) and that is running happily off 350w!
There are a couple of other possibilities - heat and power. Is your PSU adequately cooled? Its internal fan should be enough (and since you've got through two, I'm assuming the fan is turning) but sometimes with a home build, the internal cables can restrict the airflow to the PSU, especially in small cases. Check that there is unobstructed flow to the intake grille.
Here in the UK, we are pretty lucky with our mains power supplies, they are very stable compared to some parts of the world. If you live in an area where the power is a bit flaky, it would certainly be worth putting your machine on a surge protector if it isn't already or worst case, a small UPS.
If you are going to build a new machine, many of the components wi;; be much "greener" and take less power, so you may well find that your current system PSU is adequate but you'll need to do the calculations first.
You might also want to check the CNET archoves for the "current best system" articles, that suggest full configurations, from small economic web surfers to price no object gamers! While you may not want any of these, the articles will give a good idea of PSU requirements for different scenarios.
Dial down your expectations...
by grtgrfx - 10/9/09 5:08 PM In reply to: Power supplies for PCs: How much power is enough & what brands are best? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
750 watts for your system? Complete overkill, my friend. You should be completely satisfied with a 250-watt PSU, because you have an old processor, little RAM, and, apparently, no power-hungry video card. The webcam uses no board-level power to speak of, and speakers are self-powered. Even now, with the bulk of retail computers equipped with Dual-Core and faster CPUs, companies like Dell and HP are still putting 350-watt and smaller power supplies in their boxes.
If your PSUs keep failing, it's not the fault of the power supply! There must be something else that's the matter, like a bad motherboard or failing fans causing overheating. Unfortunately the only way to test this is to put the suspect power supply into a good PC and see if it fails there too. Since that's usually difficult (who has a spare PC lying around to gut for testing components?) it may make more sense to consider upgrading the rest of your PC with a newer motherboard, CPU and RAM. Or, of course, you could buy a new entry-level Dell for around $400 which would be lots faster than what you're using now AND have a 1-year warranty.
Pentium 4...wow. Good luck!!
PC power consumption, and how to mesaure it inexpensively
by cwalkeralso - 10/9/09 5:12 PM In reply to: Power supplies for PCs: How much power is enough & what brands are best? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
A 600 watt PSU is more than enough for the average PC. Very likely, the failure has more to do with its quality (or lack thereof) than with its capacity. I built my own HD non-linear workstation tower PC, and outfitted it with a Zalman ZM-MFC2 Multi Fan Controller. The ZM-MFC2 includes a power metering device that plugs-in between the wall socket and the PC, and provides feedback to the PC for displaying total power consumption. I put a 750 watt PSU in my workstation. Even with a high-end NVIDIA graphics card, a high-end ASUS audio card, 4 gigs of high-speed DRAM, a card for adding Firewire 800 ports, and multiple internal hard drives running simultaneously while Adobe Premiere Pro churns away to process and store HD video, I have yet to see my power consumption exceed 400 watts. It usually hovers around 350 when working really hard.
For a good article on this subject, check out:
http://www.sequoyahcomputer.com/Analysis/PCpoweruse/pcpowerconsumption.htm
Charles
Power Supply problems
by PaulTercier - 10/9/09 5:20 PM In reply to: Power supplies for PCs: How much power is enough & what brands are best? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
While it is possible that you just have some bad luck with Power supplies. I would say that your system would be well served by even a 450 watt unit.
That being said you may be
1. buying the economy (read CHEAP) power supplies, without brand id's simply can't tell. Expect to spend $60 to $150 for a decent mid-range 400 to 500 watt power supply.
2. You have some very dirty AC power and the surge/brownout cycles are killing the power supply and it is failing while protecting your components.
Resolving problem 1 and 2 would be by buying a good quality power supply.. read some hardware geek reviews and check the forums. AND protect your equipment with a GOOD surge protection device, or better yet a full battery backup power supply.
3. You have a short or faulty component that is over loading the power supply and causing it to fail, are there any hotspots, burning smells when the PS fails?.
Problem 3 involves a little more technical trouble shooting - swapping components. Inspecting system components for any visual indication of failure/shorts. Discoloration or signs of overheating would be something to look for. Frayed wire insulation, crimped or broken wires in the case.
Having built several hundred computers in the last 15 years in the pc service industry, I would have to say that most of the power supplies on the market are pretty good. But they are sensitive to dirty power.
Beyond this I don't have enough detail to make other suggestions.
Power Supply
by LostValley - 10/9/09 5:23 PM In reply to: Power supplies for PCs: How much power is enough & what brands are best? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
Should preface this with, "My home is literally at the end of the power lines with attendant trees, mudslides, etc..." I've been using Antec for 7 years. Initially in a Solo II box with 250W. A bit noisy and did the lightning thing fairly quickly. They replaced with a 400W that had a bad rail which they replaced with a True Power 450W. Stable, solid, enough rails and length and most of all QUIET! Barely hums.
Power supply
by sirpaul1 - 10/9/09 5:29 PM In reply to: Power supplies for PCs: How much power is enough & what brands are best? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
The biggest problems with PSUs are the quality of the capacitors, noise isolation, and the actual wattage rating. Quality in, quality out!
Check out the continuous wattage rating. I've seen 500w units have continuous ratings of 200w
This may be of some help: http://www.eggxpert.com/forums/thread/323050.aspx
Heat ... a PSU's Worst Enemy
by fishntrains - 10/9/09 5:35 PM In reply to: Power supplies for PCs: How much power is enough & what brands are best? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
My computer, a Gateway, by the way, has been upgraded to 2g of Ram, a 512mb Invidia 8600GT graphic card, and a second 750g HD to go with the 050g that came with the machine. I only run a 500w PSU. My question, why do you need so much power? The PSU only would generate more heat and not only destroy the PSU, but make for a bad environment for the rest of you machine. Bigger isn't always better.
Secondly, do you have enough air flow for cooling? I also installed a larger diameter and higher cfm fan to add air flow. The PSU I use is dual fan also.
Another question i must ask is hos often do you clean your computer? I blow mine out every 2-3 weeks. No normal environment is dust free and that dust does settle in your computer. Try setting up a regular maintenance schedule. It will help performance and may save your PSU's.
Bob
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