Home audio & video: I've got 1200 Bucks. Which TV Should I Buy?
Also...
by bearvp - 8/21/09 11:53 AM In reply to: Price by LordGideonVanns.com has all of these Pannys
Alot of them are on sale.
Message was edited by: admin to fix link
Went to BestBuy...
by LordGideon - 8/21/09 11:57 AM In reply to: Also... by bearvpSo I headed over to BestBuy on my lunchbreak wondering if I'd see a deal and hoping to see some plasmas so I could get a good heads up as to how stuff looks.
First of all, I found the Panasonic S1 there. It's $1199 on sale. However, it's up on a high shelf - about 7' off the floor. I can't really see how it looks dead on.
After scoping out some plasmas and lcd's and doing a "vs" comparison, I have a few more questions for you guys.
- Clearly BestBuy's not sending an amazing 1080p signal to all the tv's. Every one of them had crazy artifacting on a lot of their footage. The difference in the tv's however, was how they displayed it. Some were better than others.
- Plasma's seem a bit dimmer than LCD's. Is this normal?
- I noticed a "grid" pattern on some of the plasmas. I didn't see this on the Panasonic S1, but it does look like the colors were "bleeding" a bit. Could this be the source footage or the tv's not calibrated?
- 720p vs 1080p - Right next to the S1 was another 50" Panasonic Plasma. This one, however, was 720p, and cost $400 less. It looked a bit more grainy. Is 1080p a big deal for 50" tv's? I had someone tell me once that most people can't notice the difference.
- I like bacon.
As of right now, I'm firmly behind getting the Panasonic S1 Plasma. While it did look dimmer and also a bit less sharp than the tv's around it, I'm willing to lean more towards you guys on this one - that tv's probably not getting the best signal. It's been on practically 24/7 for god knows how long. It's also probably never been calibrated.
I'm going to give it a few more days before I make my purchase, however. I like to make sure I'm not just being cheap - but getting the best value. Right now $1,200 for this tv sounds like a good deal to me.
Thanks for your continued advice guys!
Best Buy
by bearvp - 8/21/09 12:53 PM In reply to: Went to BestBuy... by LordGideonThe problem with viewing the TVs at Best Buy and other big electronic stores is that they set all the displays to "Vivid" which over-saturates all the colors and basically turns the brightness to the max. They do this to look more flashy to the passerby at the expense of picture quality. I would not base picture quality comparisons off of what you see in the big stores.
Once you get your TV, you can use a calibration DVD/Blu-ray to get the brightness/contrast/etc. all set correctly and once you have it set it will look so much better than what you see in the store. CNET even posts their recommended picture settings for watching in a complete dark room (just up the brightness if you watch with lights on). To find these settings goto the "HDTV picture settings" forum link to the left and look for the TV or a very similar one.
answers
by minimalist - 8/23/09 2:49 PM In reply to: Went to BestBuy... by LordGideon<i>Clearly BestBuy's not sending an amazing 1080p signal to all the tv's. Every one of them had crazy artifacting on a lot of their footage. The difference in the tv's however, was how they displayed it. Some were better than others.</i>
The signals at most big box stores suck. Most are from ultra compressed cable feeds. Even if they do start off as "HD" they are run through hundreds of feet of cable which degrades the signal even further. The only ones that get high quality signals seem to be the end cap displayed dedicated to showing off blu-ray players and they are usually LCD's. The one nice thing big box stores do have that might help (usually) a decent return policy so you can take the TV home and try it out in your own space.
<i>Plasma's seem a bit dimmer than LCD's. Is this normal?</i>
It is true that Plasmas wont blast your retinas out like an LCD at full brightness. But the downside to all that brightness is that in order to get that bright the lamps have to be cranked so high that the blacks go charcoal grey. If you are going to watch in a reasonably dimmed room you wouldn't want your LCD that bright anyway. LED LCD's are a huge step up but they still cant touch the inky blacks of a plasma or if you do you'll pay 3 or 4 times the price.
<i>I noticed a "grid" pattern on some of the plasmas. I didn't see this on the Panasonic S1, but it does look like the colors were "bleeding" a bit. Could this be the source footage or the tv's not calibrated?</i>
That grid pattern really bothers me too. Its something about the cell structure of the pixels on plasma TV's that LCD's don't suffer from. The transition from pixel to pixel on an LCD is much more seamless.. Its most noticeable on 720p plasmas. 1080p plasmas looks infinitely better in my opinion. You do have to realize that you likely wont see this when you are sitting 10 or 12 feet away. Given that PQ is important to you I'd tend to stick with 1080p for nice crisp lines (especially with HD game consoles)
<i>720p vs 1080p - Right next to the S1 was another 50" Panasonic Plasma. This one, however, was 720p, and cost $400 less. It looked a bit more grainy. Is 1080p a big deal for 50" tv's? I had someone tell me once that most people can't notice the difference.</i>
It depends on how far you sit away. Generally I wouldn't go with anything less than 1080p on a 50" TV unless you were sitting a really long distance away. The difference will be much more pronounced with a computer image, text or game graphics.
I'd go with the 1080p plasma unless: you have an extraordinarily bright room where the light can't be controlled and you really need the brightness boost and a non-glare screen (which some plasmas do have these days). The burnout and short lifespan myths are not true anymore with modern plasmas so pay them no attention. I wish I could have a plasma myself but its just not in the cards for me in my current house. the living room is really like a sun room with windows on 3 sides.
my Sony
by Katk - 8/21/09 6:40 PM In reply to: Price by LordGideoncost me about $900 shipped! I love it! It's 46 inches and I purchased it from TechforLess and consider it a great buy. Having a cabin in a high elevation which I may move back to, the plasma was not an option. It supposedly whines with a high pitched buzz after a certain elevation, and I would not want to take the chance of having to put up with that nuisance if I should move back to the small mountain town in which my cabin is located. Hope this helps you.
Plasma is the best way to go!
by FiOS-Dave - 8/23/09 11:58 AM In reply to: . by jostenmeatDon't believe the FUD! You could watch a plasma screen for 20 years at normal settings and have no problems!
We have had our Panasonic 50" Viera since January and it brings a smile to our faces each time we watch. The only possible advantage of an LCD screen is power consumption, but we counteracted that by replacing all our incandescent bulbs with CFLs!
We have had friends and neighbors figuratively drool when they see this screen, especially when watching HDnet travelogues.
You may want to get a setup DVD, but today, most sets come setup pretty well, except for brightness, which may be a little high.
Do NOT judge these screens by what you see in stores, unless they are set up to look like a living room, such as Magnolia. I just saw a Sony demo yesterday of the difference between 60Hz and 120Hz LCD and could easily see how inferior the images were to our plasma screen.
There is still motion blur, even at 120Hz!
Whatever you wind up getting, you will be very pleased with the difference between it and your current set!
Dave
LCD vs Plasma
by winstonh5 - 8/22/09 5:01 AM In reply to: I've got 1200 Bucks. Which TV Should I Buy? by LordGideonI am retired engineer and watch TV about 40 hours a week. Although we have a perfectly working Sony 27" Triniton, we decided to go for a flat screen. I researched TV's on the internet and consumer guides, etc. We looked at Sam's, Best Buy, Costco, TigerDirect (retail store), and Sears. We opted for a 46" Samsung 720P from Sears where we previously got our Sony. Sears sales rep's seemed more knowledgable than the others. Counting the wall mount bracket and cables, surge protector, wall installation and taxes, it cost us about $1,190 which is within your budget. I definitely recommend the wall mount. Our living room has 4 large windows and a exerior door with glass so we get lots of exterior light even with blinds and still get good quality pictures. The room is 16 feet wide so I definitely would go at least 46". I built a spreadsheet to show all features, sources, costs, etc. as I always do on a technical purchase. I wanted a vendor with a local office if there is problems. We like plasma but gave them demerits because of the "burn-in" problem and they weigh 2 to 2-1/2 times more than an LCD which can be problematic if wall hung. Be sure to get a large capacity heavy duty wall bracket and it does not need to "swing out". We bought an extra cable and had it installed in the rear of the TV before the installer hung it so we could hook up our notebooks or our tower PC's if we chose to. Sears had various makes and models and sizes on display so we could compare. We could not see enough difference between the 720p and the 1020p to justify the extra cost. Save your box and all packing, just in case. Hope this is helpful.
Winston H.
A Good Choise
by art1670 - 8/22/09 5:25 AM In reply to: I've got 1200 Bucks. Which TV Should I Buy? by LordGideonI brought a 46in Sharp Aquos, and it is one of the best TV's I have ever seen. I paid about 1100 bucks, 720p, sharp, clear, great blacks, and easy to use remote. Its my choise
Aquos?
by Pepe7 - 8/22/09 8:56 AM In reply to: A Good Choise by art1670Perhaps back in the day Aquos would have been a solid choice, but you need to take a look at the current crop HDTVs which are priced much better vs. the overall image quality. The technology has come quite a long way.
-Pedro
720p vs 1080p, etc
by Dan Filice - 8/22/09 9:42 AM In reply to: Aquos? by Pepe7First, in response to the "720p is great, and you don't need 1080p" line of thought...720p may be fine in a smaller display size, 42" or smaller, but when you hit 46" and above, AND you have a 1080p source connected (like a BR player), you WILL see a difference. To my feeble eyes, there is a huge difference.
Secondly, I don't have personal experience with the Aquos line, but for a second TV in my bedroom, I have a 46" Toshiba Regza, and while the Toshiba isn't considered at the same level as a Samsung or Sony, CNET and other review sites rated the Toshiba better than the previous mentioned models when it came to how it processes the 120hz function. I've always regarded Plasma very highly, and I still do, but in my bedroom, which has a lot of ambient light, the LCD was a better choice. Also, my friend has a Panny U800 58" Plasma TV and it is very nice, but both my Sony SXRD and my Toshiba display SD cable channels MUCH better than his Plasma. Not sure why, but I've done very careful analysis and this is what my eyes see. Also, the 120Hz is a function of LCD TVs to handle fast motion, whereas Plasmas don't need this, but after staring at both my LCDs and my friend's Plasma for hours, the Plasma has issue too with fast motion artifacts. They aren't perfect. Not TV is prefect.
Finally, I agree that the Plasma has better black levels, but IMHO, the blacks on a better LCD will be acceptable unless you are a technical engineer with test equipment attached. I am a very picky TV owner, and both of my LCDs are stunning in this regard. Now to be fair, I have a smaller 23" Sony LCD in one room and a 9" LCD under-cabinet TV in the kitchen, and both of these have obvious issues with deep black at night where the blacks look like puddles, but on my other TVs I never see this.
Oh, my friend never watches 4:3 content on his Plasma in 4:3 mode because of fear of image retention. He always uses "Zoom" mode to fill the screen. Sorry, but I'm a purist and I do not like watching squashed images. Give me Left-Right pillar bars on 4:3 any day vs. squashed images.
Yes, but...
by Pepe7 - 8/23/09 11:47 AM In reply to: 720p vs 1080p, etc by Dan Filice...the OP has not presented a budget that would let her afford one of the better backlit LCDs that are the real performers you are referring to (not Aquos by any stretch). The lower end LCDs certainly are not receiving such accolades as are some of the newer (and reasonably priced) plasmas by Panasonic & Samsung. YMMV, of course, as everyone has to match the product to their particular needs.
-Pedro
So I've decided...
by LordGideon - 8/23/09 1:20 PM In reply to: Yes, but... by Pepe7I'd like to once again thank everyone for their thoughts and information. It's been an interesting ride. In the beginning, I was planning on an LCD - now I'm buying the Panasonic Plasma S1.
The price is right, and should be no problem.
I'll probably be picking it up on Tuesday.
Again, thanks for all the help. I'll also post in this thread how everything looks after I hook it up. I have to admit I'm a bit concerned with the green shift the cnet reviewer stated existed in this tv in his review. I'll be paying close attention to that.
Again, thanks!
No green shift on S1
by samkh - 8/23/09 5:34 PM In reply to: So I've decided... by LordGideonMaybe the review set had a problem.
Congrats on your choice of the neoPDP. Comparable LNB7000 or UNB7000 sets (or other brand LCDs) would easily double the price and provide not much more PQ value in return. With the money you saved, and hopefully invest, you'll be able to buy another set (plasma or LED-LCD with much superior PQ and networking) in 4-5 yrs time for the same total spend as today's high-end LCD owners.
And don't forget to read the Panny warranty CYA, just to be on the safe side.
End Result
by LordGideon - 8/25/09 11:46 AM In reply to: No green shift on S1 by samkhOn Sunday night, my television (the one I was planning on replacing anyway) died completely.
Which just pushed the issue with me - so, on Monday, I headed down to Best Buy and picked up the Panasonic S1. I was pretty stoked as I got it home and unboxed it - until I set it up.
The review was right. There IS a slight green shift. My fiance didn't see it - but it was driving me nuts. Not to mention that even after I calibrated it several times I couldn't get it to look right.
Chalk it up to either me being crazy or just a n00b, I boxed it back up and took it back. I thought that perhaps they'd trade me for a different set.
No dice. All they had left was the display model. And I'm not taking that home.
So, crestfallen, I started walking towards the door when I saw a price tag that attracted me. They're selling Samsung 46" LN46B550's for $1,050.
I pounced.
The tv is now set up, calibrated, and everything's plugged in - and the picture quality is no less than STUNNING.
I'd like to thank everyone for their help over the last several days - all of your input really helped a lot!
(NT) Glad you found the one that's right for you..congrats
by samkh - 8/25/09 6:34 PM In reply to: End Result by LordGideon
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