Windows XP: Reasons behind reformatting your hard drive and reinstalling Windows OS?
- 8/21/09 2:39 PM
Reinstalling Windows
by sirpaul1 - 8/14/09 7:01 PM In reply to: Reasons behind reformatting your hard drive and reinstalling Windows OS? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
First of all, it's the most basic way to get rid of a Windows problem for those who don't know how to solve a particular problem which, apparently, is a large number of users.
Reinstalling Windows takes the OS back to "out of the box" condition. (and you then have to reinstall all your software again)"
Using the Repair function (if available) is much preferred, as it only affects MS system files and the registry. It leaves all the added software alone. The downside of this is that if the software is causing the problem, you will still have the problem. (If you use this option, immediately run your favorite malware removal program.)
If you have the correct programs, know your OS, use preventative measures, and know how to hack the registry, you don't have to reinstall, ever.
The biggest reason for reinstalling the OS is probably a mistake caused by the user with no backups, or boot disks available.
Just remember, a search engine is your best friend when you run into problems.
Nonsense
by rbsjrx - 8/14/09 7:41 PM In reply to: Reinstalling Windows by sirpaul1"If you have the correct programs, know your OS, use preventative measures, and know how to hack the registry, you don't have to reinstall, ever."
By your criteria, should never have to do this. Yet I find it necessary every 18-24 months or so. The last two times where courtesy of Microsoft after I'd installed service packs. System restore failed miserably, as usual. But then Windows system restore has _never_ worked for me in any critical situation.
Having said that I should add that I have ~250 applications installed on my primary Windows machines and my work often requires me to install transient applications, only to uninstall them later. Since I did embedded system development, many of my applications include custom drivers. I've never been the victim of a successful malware attack. When working under Windows, I regularly have ~100 processes running at any given time. So my system is quite heavily loaded, atypically of most Windows users.
Touching on common threads in may of these replies. I've only had to reinstall once in 20+ years of running Windows because of a hardware failure. I've also have very few BSOD's after the advent of Win2k. Most were just instances of escalating instability culminating in a failure to boot at all, even in safe mode. Analysis of the file system revealed nothing out of the ordinary - which was good since it gave me the opportunity to back up the last changes I'd made prior to the crash.
By contrast, as previously noted, I've been running my Debian Linux server for ~15 years and the only problems I ever had with it were due to hard drive failures. Aside from backup activities, I still spend about a half hour every day doing routine Windows maintenance and zero time doing routine maintenance on any of my Linux machines. Even worse, this time is still required even though I have automated as much as possible using programs like Diskeeper which continuously perform Windows maintenance in the background. Software updates take time on either system, but at least under Linux, they can be accomplished without rebooting. Catastrophes only emphasize the difference. When Hurricane Ike caused our power to fail last year, my Windows machine was protected by a UPS, but my primary Linux machine had no UPS (both ran off the same power conditioner). Windows' NTFS file system was damaged a bit, but repairable. the ext3 file system on the Linux machine recovered without any drama at all as soon as I turned it back on.
The bottom line is that it's just Windows. There are many legitimate reasons why someone would need/want to run Windows rather than Linux, but these sorts of problems are just part of the price of admission.
Nonsense?
by sirpaul1 - 8/21/09 8:04 PM In reply to: Nonsense by rbsjrxI would have to guess you trust Microsoft implicitly. Big mistake! Ever since Win98, they've had updates for updates. I would suggest you check out the updates before you install them. It would have saved you 2 or 3 reinstalls (and a lot of time). There are a lot of programs out there that take the place of MS updates (a lot of them free).
If it makes you feel better, I'll grant you that you might have to install if you get a new hard drive, but that's not the issue. Mine's been working for over 10 years (and 2 hard drives) because of regular maintenance. Not updates.
But if you want to be a beta tester for Microsoft, go ahead and reinstall every year or 2.
Check out the forums and look at how many people can't reinstall. I don't mind though. Keeps good food on the table.
_"updates for updates"_ for 'Half-Cooked' M$-OSs
by Good-PC.Guy! - 8/21/09 10:27 PM In reply to: Nonsense? by sirpaul1I'M SURE THAT MOST ALL OF US HAVE HEARD OF, (if not having experienced them directly), THE DISCONCERTING REPORTS OF ISSUES THAT SOME OF THE SO-CALLED 'Updates' HAVE ENDED-UP CAUSING,, ISSUES THAT WERE EVEN WORSE THAN THE PROBLEMS WHICH THEY WERE SUPPOSED TO SOLVE.
__ IN MY CASE, IT WORKED-OUT WELL THAT I NEVER REALLY GOT AROUND TO INSTALLING M$-Updates AS SOON AS THEY BECAME AVAILABLE.
I JUST FOUND THAT DOING THEM ALL PROMPTLY, WAS TOO INCONVENIENT!
AND AFTER HEARING OF SEVERAL NEW ISSUES THAT SOME OF THE MANY Updates HAD CAUSED, I DECIDED TO ALWAYS WAIT SEVERAL MONTHS BEFORE INSTALLING EACH ONE, THUS ALLOWING A FAIR BIT OF TIME FOR OTHERS TO PRETEST THEM AND SAVE ME FROM ANY NEW TROUBLES.
__ HOWEVER, AFTER I DISCOVERED HOW TO 'DUAL-BOOT' MY PCs, I WAS THEN ABLE TO HAVE THE BEST OF BOTH WORLDS!! ...
FROM THEN ON, I WOULD ALWAYS INSTALL MY OS TWICE... ONCE WITH ONLY THE ORIGINAL & BARE OS, AND ALSO, ONCE WITH ALL THE SP-Update PACKAGES PLUS ALL THE INDIVIDUAL Updates WHICH WERE AVAILABLE.
___ I USE THE FULLY UPDATED OS (on drive-C), FOR DOING ALL THINGS ON THE INTERNET, AND RESERVE THE OTHER (almost completely bare) OS (on drive-F), FOR ALL MY OTHER (more important) WORK.
IT'S A VERY,VERY USEFUL ADVANTAGE TO HAVE, AND I HIGHLY RECOMMEND THAT MOST EVERYONE, (at their first opertunity), CONVERT TO DUAL-BOOTing FOR/ON THEIR PCs! _ CUZ ALL THE MANY ADVANTAGES OF 'DUAL-BOOT', ARE SIMPLY GREAT!!!
IN FACT I'M QUITE CONFIDENT THAT MOST ANYONE WHO CONVERTS TO 'DUAL-BOOT', WILL SOON AFTER, WONDER HOW THEY EVER GOT BY WITHOUT IT!
INDEED, IT CERTAINLY WOULD BE QUITE UNSMART TO REVERT BACK TO HAVING JUST ONE OS TO BOOT TO, AFTER YOU'VE REALIZED ANY OF THE ADVANTAGES THAT A DUAL-BOOT PC PROVIDES!
TRY IT, YOU'LL LIKE IT!
The reasoning behind a Nuke and Pave?
by Flirkann - 8/14/09 7:06 PM In reply to: Reasons behind reformatting your hard drive and reinstalling Windows OS? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
In a nutshell, Windows is such a complex and fickle beast that starting again from scratch can often be the quicker and less painful resolution to an issue...particularly in the case of a poorly maintained installation.
Over the life of an installation...
...Incorrect shutdowns and crashes can cause the corruption of important files...
...an important file gets lost or corrupted in a way that one of the internal setup/recovery programs can't fix
...The lazy way the installer system is written means programs have access to modify areas of the system they generally don't need to touch during their installs, allowing accidental, ignorant and/or deliberate changes that can cripple a system...such as the AOL software replacing parts of the Windows Network Stack with it's own components or a Dreamweaver install killing Windows Help in Vista...
The above also allows a particularly stubborn or persistant application to be incredibly resistant to removal when it's been programmed to not want to, typically exploited by spyware and malware.
...The various configuration files and registry hold all kinds of settings that may interact in an undesired way when peculiar set of conditions arises...
Add to the previous the potential issues when a program leaves traces of itself when removed incorrectly or via it's lazy uninstaller...and Windows then runs into a setting that requires a now missing file or application in order to continue...
Exceptions noted
by rbsjrx - 8/14/09 7:54 PM In reply to: The reasoning behind a Nuke and Pave? by Flirkann"...Incorrect shutdowns and crashes can cause the corruption of important files..."
That's why advanced journaling file systems were invented. It's a pity that Windows' most "advanced" file system, NTFS, dates back to 1993. Even at that, NTFS is a kluge built to address performance issue with FAT, which dates back to 1980. Since Windows doesn't allow installable file systems (someone might install a non-MS file system - gasp!), NTFS had to be made backwards compatible with FAT. What a pity that more of MS's software didn't pay the same attention to backwards compatibility...
"...The lazy way the installer system is written means programs have access to modify areas of the system they generally don't need to touch during their installs, allowing accidental, ignorant and/or deliberate changes that can cripple a system...such as the AOL software replacing parts of the Windows Network Stack with it's own components or a Dreamweaver install killing Windows Help in Vista..."
Serious OSs don't allow such things. Advanced package managers also check all dependencies when installing new software and install _everything_ needed to make it run reliably.
"...The various configuration files and registry hold all kinds of settings that may interact in an undesired way when peculiar set of conditions arises..."
The registry is a kluge only found in Windows. Real OSs don't have anything like it.
Real OSs don't have anything like it.?
by neolithic1958 - 8/15/09 4:50 AM In reply to: Exceptions noted by rbsjrxWindows is used on more computers than anything so it is a REAL OS! LOL I am an IT Manager and we only use Windows cos Linux is so unfriendly! Oh an I do use Ubuntu at home so I know what I am talking about, they have only just got it to the point where anyone can install it, an OS is not use if the general public cannot use it, I have done 18 yrs of Windows Support so I know!
Hardly a ringing endorsement
by rbsjrx - 8/15/09 8:00 AM In reply to: Real OSs don't have anything like it.? by neolithic1958"I am an IT Manager and we only use Windows cos Linux is so unfriendly! Oh an I do use Ubuntu at home so I know what I am talking about, they have only just got it to the point where anyone can install it, an OS is not use if the general public cannot use it, I have done 18 yrs of Windows Support so I know!"
So, your livelihood is dependent upon keeping Windows running. If it were more reliable, you'd be out of work!
If you want Linux distributions which are really user-friendly for Windows refugees, you should be looking at PCLinuxOS or Linux Mint (Ubuntu done right).
Now children, play nice
by geofbrewer - 8/15/09 1:28 PM In reply to: Real OSs don't have anything like it.? by neolithic1958Ubiquity does not equate to reliabiity. Microsoft tried to break with the past. It got them nowhere. Our collective memory seems to expunge these details. As for Linux, my only complaint is tracking down drivers. I tend to legacy systems I can pick up on the cheap. Now as for my livelihood, I wish. It would be nice to get back into the game.
P.S. Not an answer to the thread
Reformat and reinstall.
by stormtrooper - 8/14/09 7:09 PM In reply to: Reasons behind reformatting your hard drive and reinstalling Windows OS? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
The most common reason for reformat and reinstall is fragmentation and program entrails. If you experiment with software quite a bit or overclock this could be another. Or if you are just plain fed up with your PC clogging up and slowing down and more often than not you may have programs that you may use rarely but not often enough to warrant them being there all the time. The easiest way is tobackup what data you want to recall when you have reinstalled and then Delete your boot drive and reinstall windows and freshly install the applications you are currently using which saves memory, defragments the hard drive and free's up disk space for new data. restore your important data making sure you have the programs installed to make use of that data. ( No use restoring documents if you haven't got a word processor installed is there?
Hope this answers your question.
Like amputation to cure a hangnail
by rbsjrx - 8/14/09 7:58 PM In reply to: Reformat and reinstall. by stormtrooperIf your problems are disk fragmentation and garbage files and registry entries, there are much more reasonable ways to deal with them than reformatting and reinstalling the OS. Any Windows maintenance regimen should include these as a mtter of daily practice.
Amputation you say?
by geofbrewer - 8/15/09 1:33 PM In reply to: Like amputation to cure a hangnail by rbsjrxBit extreme analogy. I assume you analyze memory dumps as a hobby. For holiday, you use Debug to read your HDD and fix the errors or update the Bad Sector file.
Seriously, routine maintenance is ignored.
Reinstalling Windows
by XSYLUS - 8/14/09 7:21 PM In reply to: Reasons behind reformatting your hard drive and reinstalling Windows OS? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
FDISKING, Re-formatting, and Re-installing Windows is a last resort when troubleshooting. Some people tend to jump to that step because they are too lazy to troubleshoot the problem. If the problem is software based then chances are a reinstall of Windows will fix it but if the problem is hardware based a Windows reinstall won't help. Think of your car, every so many miles you have to perform regular maintenance which may include changing the oil. Reinstall Windows is similar. Personally as a constant computer user I will reinstall Windows every 3, 6, or 9 months depending on if it's starting to act sluggish or do weird things.
Some reasons why reinstalling Windows might be needed:
Overtime using a computer, installing and or uninstalling programs and just running programs creates "clutter" temp files and a plethora of registry entries. This clutter can cause the computer to run more slowly, less efficiently, and even possibly cause it to behave abnormally. Thus reinstalling Windows from scratch eliminates this clutter because you start with a clean slate. Note that you should always be backing up important files and data.
Another reason to reinstall is if you've got a massive infection of viruses and malware and you've been unsuccessful in cleaning out the infections.
If you are having a computer related issue that seems to be software based and you've tried everything to correct it but it still persists then a reinstall "might" be the only solution available.
I'm sure other people will give other good examples of reasons why a reinstall is beneficial.
The downside to it is that you have to reinstall all of your software that you need, as well as drivers for your hardware, you have to reset your custom settings, you have to be sure all the files you need are in fact backed up and you know where they are since they will no longer be in your my documents folder. The whole process from backup, to fdisk/formatting, to reinstalling Windows and software takes several hours.
I hope this information helps.
The only time I ever reinstall Windows...
by rbsjrx - 8/14/09 8:04 PM In reply to: Reinstalling Windows by XSYLUS...is when the machine can no longer be coaxed to boot, even in safe mode. Also, I rarely reformat since that's done during reinstall anyway. I do, however, run a surface scan before I reinstall. That will tell me if the HDD itself is damaged and/or recoverable. If the boot sectors are unreadable and can't be successfully reformatted, there's little sense in doing anything before buying a new HDD.
Good Point
by geofbrewer - 8/15/09 1:36 PM In reply to: The only time I ever reinstall Windows... by rbsjrxAlthough I doubt that many people are aware of the function of a surface scan.
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