Buzz Out Loud Lounge: Those wondering "Why the moon"...here's why...
Those wondering "Why the moon"...here's why...
by shmody - 6/29/09 7:20 AMThose wondering "Why the moon"...here's why...
http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewnews.html?id=1334
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The next step in our space program is the development of a true space faring civilization using the Moon as a stepping stone. Elements of such a system include a lunar spaceport, settlement, and industrial infrastructure to support the further economic development of the Solar System. Pursuing this goal requires a different way of thinking about space infrastructure and operations. Reducing operating cost is paramount. We must accept high-payoff new technologies and manage their risks until they are mature. But the payoff is huge: a new economic frontier in space.
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Personally, I see potential for hundreds of TRILLIONS of dollars in the industry over the next 50 years...
Enjoy,
Shalin
But
by Nicholas Buenk - 6/29/09 8:18 AM In reply to: Those wondering "Why the moon"...here's why... by shmodyWill it ever be profittable to do mining etc in space, with how expensive space operations are.
What use are resources if you gotta burn more fuel than they're worth to bring them back to earth.
Economic activity is basically is a matter of energy flows and conversions. We are talking about extremely energy intensive activities that are supposed to compet with simpler lower energy operations on earth.
I remain dubious of the economics of anything in space...
the problem only exists while we get energy from whats on...
by mementh - 7/1/09 8:13 PM In reply to: But by Nicholas BuenkThe problem only exists while we get energy from whats on our planet..
Once we have a mobile power platform in space with solar panels to generate power for us and beam it to the planet..
Power would become less of a commodity since the investment is such a long term one but it will pay off.
Eventually we will use more power then we can generate on this planet.. but if we used solar platforms in space.. well...
Does it really matter how much we use when we have basically the entire sun to build around to get power?
I am sure we have enough resources in all the asteroids and such to build the platforms.. once we get a few up there and have invested in the needed technology automation to mine the asteroids and refine the materials the cost will be trivial to the reward..
But the problem is.. its a HUGE cost upfront.. and a long term reward... much longer then some of us will live.
Actually
by Nicholas Buenk - 7/1/09 8:54 PM In reply to: the problem only exists while we get energy from whats on... by mementhHere's an article I was reading just the other day related to this issue.
http://www.energybulletin.net/node/49332
"As long as there is enough primary energy – at tolerable prices – there is no reason to believe that bottlenecks in any other primary materials cannot be either broken or circumvented. On the other hand, a shortage of primary energy would mean that the demand for most other primary products would be so curtailed that a question of shortage with regard to them would be unlikely to arise”
"the only reason the iron industry can use progressively lower grades of ore is by using increasingly large amounts of energy per ton of iron produced, and the same rule applies across the board; the lower the concentration of the resource in its natural form, the more energy has to be used to extract it and turn it into useful forms. Second, when you try to apply this principle to energy, you very quickly reach the point at which the energy needed to extract and process the resource is greater than the energy you get out the other end. Once this point arrives, the resource is no longer useful in energy terms; you might as well try to support yourself by buying $1 bills for $2 each."
And here is the problem in space, there might be a lot of resources but the energy cost to obtain them is unrealistic. Especially during a time in history when we will be challenged just to get enough energy to keep society functioning as is.
true true..
by mementh - 7/7/09 8:09 PM In reply to: Actually by Nicholas BuenkBut this is the critial point in time we have to start doing it..
It might cost ALOT.. but it will reap rewards over time...
Now I am not saying we need to start building this year or decade.. but the tech is being developed.. its already here mostly.. just needs ALOT of refining.. and thats the cost/difficulty to do.
But eventually energy needs/demands will cause issues and start to cost too much from existing sources.
Sadly I don't know where, nor have any sources to cite, but i recall that our energy grid was built to extract PROFIT.. but not be as efficiant as it could be, hense the issues getting green tech on the grid.
If we were to get the grid more effeciant it would make cost go down over time as well (one assumes) because managing would be better done.
And adding windmills in one part of the country to power another would not be a problem like I understand it is now.
N/A for Solar
by DangMI - 7/8/09 4:57 AM In reply to: Actually by Nicholas BuenkNo increased costs of extraction, you use it as it comes or that bit is gone forever. Increasing investments should mean greater efficiencies and more bang for the buck, but either way the energy will just keep on going by whether or not we capture/convert it for our uses.
An exceptions is the materials for the solar collectors--I assume extracting and manufacturing them will go to these issues. But the "raw materials" will not get more expensive or difficult to get to from any given location, tho obviously some locatoins (space, deserts) are more productive than others.
To a lesser extent, this is all also true of wind and geothermal. They just exist whether or not we use them. Not as pure, as they do have local environmental impact such as bird strikes etc, but seriously, that pales next to strip mining's impact on the local wildlife!
my top 3 reasons...
by shmody - 7/16/09 7:36 AM In reply to: Those wondering "Why the moon"...here's why... by shmodymy top 3 reasons...
1) Preparation for humanity's emigration across the cosmos will take a damn long time - better get started before Earth "kicks us out"...
2) Drastic improvements in materials, propulsion systems, and electronics will also have benefits here on Earth.
3) You know what the biggest thing we'll get out of another "push outward" is? A huge amount of interest in science and engineering, if not just for aerospace, for any number of other things (just like the space race of the 50's-60's).
Overall, I think the "green revolution" and a colonization of the Moon/Mars will provide us with enough nerds and misc supporters to ensure humanity's existence, prowess, ingenuity, and wisdom for thousands of years to come... And to me, that's of the highest importance...
Best,
Shalin
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