Dell: New order NIGHTMARE m1730
m17
by bradsenff - 6/12/09 7:07 AM In reply to: m17 or m1730 by jkoortsShort answer, it will be more expensive.
Both video card options (GT260M and GT280M) are better than the 8700M. Progression wise, the 260M is two steps above in performance (roughly) and the 280 is 2.5ish.
I am not sure what configuration you are looking at, but I did do the SLI configuration.
Processor wise, and general computer-wise, you have to keep in mind that the bus speed is higher for this laptop's motherboard. The m1730 is an 800MHz bus, the M17 is 1066MHz (or is it 1333? I don't remember off-hand now!) That alone will give a performance difference, without weighing in other enhancements.
I just did a quick customization, and the total came to about $2200, for the same basic configuration as below. IMO, difference in processing power alone, if price is what you're concerned with - drop back to a single GPU. That would drop it to $1900-ish. The GT260 is a more powerful card (I'll try to link up some comparison stats in a bit).
Good luck!
Performance
by bradsenff - 6/12/09 7:20 AM In reply to: m17 by bradsenffhttp://service.futuremark.com/hardware/graphics_cards/nvidia_geforce_gtx_280m?chipsetId=449&popularChipsetIds=366&popularChipsetIds=547&popularChipsetIds=525&popularChipsetIds=449
I'm not positive that the card selections will be preserved, so here is what I see:
I selected the following cards, and each had the score listed:
1) NVIDIA GTX260 (note, this is NOT the M) Score: 8863
2) NVIDIA GeForce 9700M GT Score: 1574
3) NVIDIA GeForce 8700M GT Score: 1133
Even if you DOUBLE the 8700's score due to SLI (and you never get a full double performance with SLI, so that's a stretch), you're only at a score of 2266 - 25% of the GTX260.
This is NOT an end-all comparison. There are hundreds of sites with numbers, and as you know, they vary wildly.
Generically speaking, the performance, in my opinion is greater by enough that single card = just as powerful, if not MORE powerful than your m1730's SLI configuration.
THAT reason was one of the many reasons I was *SO* upset when my order was canceled originally, because the 9700M (in SLI) was my original pick. I had to do the re-order, and the 9700 wasn't available anymore, only the 8700 was.
I have a ~2 year old Inspiron at work - 17", top of the line at the time.
It's bus: 800MHz.
It's video card: 8700M.
If my 2 year old laptop has it, a 'current / new' gaming laptop isn't that powerful, even if it does it with SLI.
What are you using the laptop for, anyway? Gaming? What types of games (specific examples?)
-brad
Another site
by bradsenff - 6/12/09 7:34 AM In reply to: Performance by bradsenffI just found another site that has performance information.
http://www.notebookcheck.net/NVIDIA-GeForce-8700M-GT-SLI.6933.0.html
At the bottom, it lists the 260M - in that score, it is on par with 8700M SLI (just below it in fact).
Here is the gtx280 in sli - notice how low it ranks in comparison. It is definitely better than the 260M, both due to SLI AND general card capabilities. Yet less than a 2,000 score difference.
http://www.notebookcheck.net/NVIDIA-GeForce-GTX-280M-SLI.17191.0.html
Those types of things are why you have to weigh in a LOT of different tests, and distill the information for yourself.
Personally, I think the GTX280M SLI test was bunk for this site. Their single card tested at ~18,000 and the SLI was at ~15,000?!
Still, if you keep it in perspective, the 260M is comparable to the 8700M SLI, depending on where you look. Again, depending where you look, it is at LEAST comparable, if not better...
Hope all this helps. 
dell does it to me as well
by jkoorts - 6/14/09 10:14 AM In reply to: Another site by bradsenffI just got that dear john "There has been a delay in fulfilling your Order Number listed below and we have adjusted the estimated delivery date for this order" email from Dell.
Ah man, screw this, I'm cancelling the order. I ordered the Dell based on the shipping date that the 'sell' to me. The shipping date changed, therefor the sale is invalid, and therefor im cancelling this order. I'll phone them tomorrow.
I will then also go for this M17 Alienware laptop. Thanks for the tip. It looks like Dell is going downhill.
Re: "is it worth it"?
by bradsenff - 6/26/09 7:22 AM In reply to: m17 or m1730 by jkoortsAfter having the machine for almost a day, I can give you better feedback.
It's worth it. Very fast machine.
FINAL UPDATE
by bradsenff - 6/26/09 7:18 AM In reply to: New order NIGHTMARE m1730 by bradsenffShortly after my last update, I received word that the expedited build was accepted. I didn't expect miracles, but I kept checking the online 'estimated' delivery date, and sure enough, it changed from July 16th to July 13th. 3 whole days.
I was disappointed, but hopeful. At least it seems like I'll actually get this one. Thinking it was going to be a while, I resorted to two checks per week, to see if there was any change.
Yesterday, (June 25th, 2009), I received an email from a Dell represenative saying my order shipped. Could it be? I quickly checked online, and it indeed said that it had shipped the day before, and that I should be getting it by 4:30PM (yesterday).
I was shocked, that's a full two weeks before I expected it to arrive. Expedited for sure!
After my commute from work, I ended up getting to my house the same time as the FedEx delivery. After a short happy dance, I went about the unveiling, and initial boot.
The machine is GREAT. With the SSD, it is VERY quiet. The fans are quiet.
After the entire experience, the M17 was worth my most recent wait. I just wish I had skipped the XPS m1730 fiasco, and went with this first!
Oh, one other quick mini-review: Those of you who order from Dell will know that the 'first boot' process is almost always a pain, especially when you are an enthusiast, and want top performance. Normally, I spend 2 hours uninstalling, disabling, and tweaking, to get the machine to a more pristine state, and much quicker.
This Alienware? 15 minutes total. Most of that time was personal preferences like LED colors, and 'what happens when I close the lid' adjustments. It isn't pre-loaded with tons of junk. There are a few apps, but so far, it was a quick and painless experience, straight out of the box.
My two main reasons for buying this machine were gaming, and work (I need to run a virtual machine in VMWare). Both are EXTREMELY fast.
I haven't tweaked anything with overclocking or whatnot, and probably won't (warranties are fickle), but I did notice they have an 'easy' menu in the bios to permit that, if it is your bag.
All in all: I recommend the M17. I also recommend that you avoid any models with Dell that are end of life, or on the edge of their life. That was my major mistake in this whole ordeal. I should have seen the signs of a product being phased out, and I didn't.
Thanks to all who showed support, and most importantly, thanks to Bill and Team Titan for making this a much more bearable experience, and working to resolve my issues.
Good luck everyone
-brad
congrats
by jkoorts - 6/26/09 7:28 AM In reply to: FINAL UPDATE by bradsenffGood for you dude! Enjoy your new machine. I'm waiting for Dell to pay me back and then buy the M17 in October.
woot!
by Dell-Bill_B
- 6/26/09 7:54 AM
In reply to: FINAL UPDATE by bradsenff
I played around with a pre-production config of the M17 a few months back. The one I had was not as well configured as yours, but I must concur on speed and quietness. It stays relatively cool, too. I pushed it pretty hard, and never noticed any out of control hot spots anywhere.
SSD
by jkoorts - 6/27/09 1:48 AM In reply to: FINAL UPDATE by bradsenffHow fast is the SSD compared to normal laptop hard drives? I'm tired of reading up on theoretical and benchmark literature, and would rather like to know the experienced speed difference.
1. how fast does your computer boot, compared to drives?
2. how fast does internet explorer take to load? or Firefox? or Chrome?
3. how fast does microsoft office load up?
4. and if you're a developer like me, how fast is eclipse:
4.1 how fast does it load up?
4.2 how fast does it compile your code?
Answers
by bradsenff - 6/28/09 1:18 PM In reply to: SSD by jkoortsMy previous laptop was a Dell 1720. I had a 5400 RPM drive, 4GB of ram, and a 2.6GHz dual core proc.
This new M17 has 4GB of 1333MHz RAM, the 256GB SSD, Quad Core Extreme (2.53MHz), and Dual GTX280's.
The difference? Lightyears. After reading your questions, I shut the machine completely down, and did a cold boot. I timed from hitting the power button to the login screen, and from the login screen to the disk access stopping.
I haven't completely cleaned the system of 'on load' apps, because I like a few of the Alienware apps, including the nifty Facial Recognition login. It actually works, and is pretty quick.
Time from the Power button to Login Screen: 44 seconds
Time from the login screen to desktop: 3 seconds.
I couldn't even time Firefox or IE7 loads: I clicked the button, and my best guess is 3/4's of a second until they were loaded.
Note, I did turn off pre-fetching - no need when accessing the disk is basically the same as accessing memory.
I do not use Eclipse, but I do use VMWare, and MS Visual Studio (the one before 2008, I never remember what 'year' it is. heh).
For compiling, I chose one of the larger projects I had handy, and compared it side by side with my old machine. I did a 'make clean' on both, then did the full build. The difference was staggering.
I have no way to quantify the project size, other than the build time's from before - typically 4 to 5 minutes for this particular project from when I hit the button before it completed.
I missed the time on the new machine the first go round - I glanced up to talk with my wife, and didn't realize it was done. So I had to redo it - 1 minute 42 seconds.
Now, a big part of that will also be CPU difference. My old machine is slower, and less cores. Parallel builds are very quick when you have 4 cores to deal with.
All in all, I'd highly recommend SSD over regular drives. My only warning is to look into the TRIM related controversy. From what I gather, over time performance can degrade. As the disk gets used, it writes very VERY fast to never-before-touched areas. When an area receives data, even after it has been cleared, there's a slight increase in latency due to the extra check needed to verify the space is truly available, because of the way the firmware writes data out to semi random locations.
Trim is a command to re-set that space, so it is marked as 'pristine' to the firmware, bypassing that check. Not all drives have the command, but I suspect that in the near future it will be commonplace, and no big deal.
I decided that I'd gamble that utilities for the Samsung in this M17 would be out by the time I noticed any sort of issue.
If you write a ton to disk, even if it is only temporary, you could run into it quickly. Personally, if I thought that were a possibility, I'd just toss in a secondary normal disk for long term storage, and/or file manipulation.
Hopefully that answers your questions... I'm happy with the machine so far, and the speed is impressive. I still can't get over the quiet. It is so nice to not have chatter from the drive(s)...
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