Computer help: How do you future proof your digitally archived documents?
- 5/1/09 10:39 AM
TIFF Storage
by arizkid - 5/2/09 11:41 AM In reply to: Response to Old Standards by domirrIf I'm not mistaken, one loses a small amount of clarity each and every time a document or photo is saved under TIFF.....
TIFF Doesn't Lose information
by BilltheK - 5/2/09 9:01 PM In reply to: TIFF Storage by arizkidI think there is an earlier post that says that TIFF don't degrade if you don't save on top of the original file.
Why not TIFF for images
by onemoremile - 5/3/09 4:51 AM In reply to: Simple Solution by friarchuckFriarchuck: Just curious: Why not use TIFF for images as well? TIFF is an excellent format for storing images, if you have sufficient space.
Future proof? Men plan, God laughs .....
by Watzman - 4/27/09 4:38 PM In reply to: How do you future proof your digitally archived documents? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
Truly future proofing things may be impossible, but there are some things you can do.
First, as you note, choose formats that are widely expected used, as they will likely be around. I personally THINK that PDF is safe, and also that JPEG is safe. Other likely safe formats (likely, but less certain): .TIF(F), .DOC, .RTF, .HTM(L). For multimedia it's tougher, but .WAV, .MP3 and .WMA are going to be around. Video may be the most problematic, but if you get it burned to a DVD that will play on a consumer set-top player and a PC, you should be pretty safe.
Second, none of it matters if the files themselves are lost, so you need to keep multiple copies on media that you are pretty sure has a long life. Right now, that means ONE-TIME DVD media, and also "something else" and/or multiple copies. Be certain not to use RW media of any kind, or non-ISO formats (in particular the "drag and drop" optical formats (for which there are a lot of different names)). The matter of media longevity has been discussed multiple times, so I won't go over it again. But I will say that I am a "classic computer hobbyist", and almost all such hobbyists are finding that our 1970's 8-inch floppy diskettes .... are virtually 100% readable and useable after 3 decades, which is good news.
Third: KEEP THE ORIGINAL OLD SOFTWARE. When a new version of {whatever} comes out, do not throw out your old media. I still have original install media (that works ... I've used it, occasionally) for DOS back to version 2, Windows version 3, DOS versions of Microsoft Word, and pretty much every version of every OS and Microsoft Office. Occasionally, in order to "save" an old document, you have to actually go back and install software that could open an old version and save it as a newer version ... and do this 2 or 3 times until you get to a "modern" version. I've gone that route more than once.
Finally .... along with the old software, keep some legacy hardware around also. As part of my classic computer hobby work, I have several CP/M systems with 8-inch floppy drives, and a Zenith Z-100 that can run CP/M, CP/M-86 and MS-DOS ... with 8-inch floppies, 5.25" floppies and hard drive .... all on the same computer, on the same hard drive.
Non "classic computer" hobbyists are unlikely to ever have to go back that far, but you can pick up old laptops on E-Bay really cheap that will span a nearly two-decade range of software in a single unit. A good example: A Toshiba 4020CDT laptop will run everything from Windows 3.0 on top of DOS (Windows 3.x drivers are actually still around) to Windows XP. It has all the legacy ports (serial, parallel, PS/2) and drivers (Windows 3.x), yet it's actually a Pentium II CPU with internal floppy and optical drives, USB and it will run Windows XP. Being a laptop, it's compact, and being so old they are cheap (easily under $100, sometimes $20 to $30). So this or a machine like it is a good machine to keep around for those times when you have to resort to actually using older software to recover some legacy data.
Men plan, God laughs .....
by vattan2005 - 5/1/09 7:26 PM In reply to: Future proof? Men plan, God laughs ..... by WatzmanHow true! I love your subject line!
God has a strange sense of humor
by usws - 5/1/09 7:55 PM In reply to: Men plan, God laughs ..... by vattan2005God would really laugh if computers went extinct altogether. *faints*
Hard to be certain, but some formats safer than others.
by BigGuns149 - 4/27/09 10:43 PM In reply to: How do you future proof your digitally archived documents? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
Before I make any recommendations I would preface my comments by saying that it is hard to know exactly what we will be using format wise in 20 years nevermind 50 years, but there are some formats that I believe that will still be easily viewed in 10 years time.
For the sake of bitmap based images either GIF or PNG I doubt are going anywhere. While GIF was originally a patent encumbered format the relevant patents have since expired and due to the huge number of images I doubt that future web browsers, and image viewers/editors will drop support for the format. Nevertheless I think that PNG will gradually replace GIF for most purposes in that PNG being a newer format tends to create more compact files and it is more feature rich with alpha transparencies. JPEG2000 could become popular as a lossy format, but as storage becomes more plentiful interest in lossy formats will likely decline. Furthermore, industry support for JPEG2000 still seems rather weak. It may not disappear in the near future, but I don't think it will be as easy to view as GIF or PNG files.
For vector based graphics it is hard to guess. Flash is a proprietary format so whether what you create still works is at the whim of Adobe. For years SVG was supposed to become the de facto vector graphics standard, but lack of Internet Explorer support and competition from Flash has stymied industry support.
As for Office formats the world seems to be getting behind one of two formats: OperOffice's Open Document Format (ODF) or Microsoft Office's Office Open XML (OOXML). Many government organizations have adopted ODF for the purposes of archiving documents although OOXML has been gaining supporters as well. In theory either format should be pretty futureproof.
As for video formats I think the most likely formats to survive the test of time are H.264(AVC), MPEG-2, and VC-1. All three are supported by all Blu-ray players and MPEG-2 is supported by all DVD players. MPEG-2 has the most support, but H.264 is far more advanced and has very wide industry support(cell phones, portable video players, etc.) and its' support is growing. Of all the current formats I think it is the most likely to stand the test of time based on current trends.
Unlike file formats in the 80s I think that modern file formats are going to have a lot more staying power. Far more of the formats are open formats and the proprietary formats are less likely to disappear like many companies did 20-30 year ago.
Future proofing your files? by bp
by bpacker1 - 4/28/09 3:39 PM In reply to: How do you future proof your digitally archived documents? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
I, too have thousands of photos and graphic files, and thousands of Lotus 123 spreadsheets.
My only solution is to keep CD's of the Programs that you need to open these files, and make several copies of each program, as these also seem to go bad or get lost over time. In the next 5 yrs, CDs & DVDs will be history, because the manufacturers will sell super HD DVDs. I also am retiring soon, and will buy 2 External hard-drives to backup my computer files. My computers tend to die after several years, also.
There are several variations of Microsoft Programs, like Photo Editor,Picture it, Picture manager,Image suite ,Paint. Some after market graphics programs are out there, like Adobe,Corel,Vuescan,& Infanvue. The problem with all these programs is that Windows Vista may or may not work well with them, and the programs themselves may open some but not all formats. I use Windows XP now. Spreadsheets are another problem, because companies like Lotus,are not around anymore. Windows Excel has usurped the market due to it lower cost & compatibility. I still like Lotus better for math equations and stability. I keep 3 copies of Lotus install disk around.
Thanks, bp
We may need the original software
by sauna6 - 4/29/09 9:00 AM In reply to: How do you future proof your digitally archived documents? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
An excellent question. Even a few years makes a difference: I just the other day needed to open a Word document from 1996 using my current Word 2003 version, but needed to install a SW routine that allows Word 2003 to read text written with an older version of Word, only some 10 years ago. I also installed another routine in order to open Word 2007 format documents.
Could not find a similar tool for Powerpoint documents, so they remain inaccessible. Excel from 1996 did not open either. Poor, MS, very poor.
This makes me ask: do we really, seriously, need to start making a lot of partitions to our HD, to save various versions of OS and Office, just to get access to a lifetime of one generation of work?
A good analysis of this problem would serve the whole mankind. Who will first present one? I hope the solution is not: print them!
RE: we may need the original software
by scottwilkins - 5/2/09 5:28 AM In reply to: We may need the original software by sauna6I've never had problems openeing any Office document from Word for DOS 2.0 in any current version of Office. I'd say you ran into a corrupt file instead of a file format problem.
Original format
by DADSGETNDOWN - 5/1/09 5:51 PM In reply to: How do you future proof your digitally archived documents? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
This will mainly be about pictures and docs.
But for EVERYTHING keep it in it's "Original" format. PERIOD!!!
Keep them on a hard drive, Cd-r as data, AND the orignal source.
Sd cards or camera cards, camcorder tapes or discs, etc.
That's 3 copies. and for a Fourth, the best is,
Print any and all documents and pictures.
For pictures when you have them printed, also get them on a Cd
AND get a "negative" made. yep you can get a negative made. Even at Walmart.
and ofcourse you can have backup copies of everything and keep them at relatives homes and even banks and storage places, all besides the ones you keep yourself, IF ANYTHING EVER happens you will have it ALL covered.
So that is a 5th copy minimum.
Sometime Mainstream is Not the Answer
by brianlevyesq - 5/1/09 6:08 PM In reply to: How do you future proof your digitally archived documents? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
I noticed you are a J.D. and hence possibly work with the one software package that probably will be the answer to at least your documents. Corel WordPerfect will translate some 60+ formats going back to before Wordstar to current formats most never heard of such as Edgar. I recently rediscovered the software having to reload my wife's old dog computer and she still uses WordPerfect. I played with it, WordPerfect 2000 and even bought her version 11 just to update it. I decided to load it on my 2000 Pro laptop to rediscover Quattro Pro, the spreadsheet and discovered the universality of the formats it can open and save to. Both apps leave MS in the dust even with old MS formats. They can open DOS based Word and Excel. I'm considering getting a copy of X3 or X4 to try. Conversions between MS Office formats and the native formats for Wordperfect and Quattro Pro is very good and better than with OpenOffice. X4 is supposed to even convert .pdf file to allow editing but in trying the 30 day trial version of X4 did not seem like they have it down right. However it had not problem opening .odf and ooxlm files. It will not translate .odt however.
For photos, remember RAW while it should be a universal format is not and hence not good for a universal archive format. I'm not into digital photos so can not add anything else.
Since the opening days of the promotion of .odf as an archival format for documents I've asked why not .rtf as .odf is not supported by most apps, i.e. MS that controls so much of the market.
As for MS, if you have Office 97, you can download from MS the viewers and updates plus the Compatibility Pack and '97 will open and same all the way up through the Office 2007 file formats for Word and Excel. I do not use PPT so have not looked for any way to update fro '97 through 2007. However, I understand that some of the downloads are at a point that MS will be taking them out of circulation and hence removing this way of keeping '97 as a useful tool. MS could and should add back into Office all the old formats but I suspect it does not to force sales of new programs.
While OpenOffice is an interesting and great alternative to MS Office and no charge to boot, and though Corel has almost no market presence outside of the legal community, I think it may have a lot of life left in the market if it finally figures out that one strength it has is the ability to read so many formats. If I were a government with a mandate to preserve the ability to read archives, I'd be looking at it rather than MS or Office and set is default save as to .odf in expectation for the future.
I agree with you about WordPerfect Office
by DrJoeS - 5/3/09 7:34 AM In reply to: Sometime Mainstream is Not the Answer by brianlevyesqBrian:
I have used WordPerfect since the DOS versions of the 80s, and currently use X3, which DOES work on PDF as well as all of the other formats you mentioned. QPro also opens all of the old Lotus files. I don't know how much improvement X4 offers, but X3 does everything I ask of it, and more!
50 years from NOW...
by JiMiZnHB - 5/1/09 6:52 PM In reply to: How do you future proof your digitally archived documents? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
Your Kids Kids will have a 128 YottaByte Neural MicroIBMMACSoft Implant that Contains ALL of their Lifes History Recorded in SRUBBPUD (SuperRidiculouslyUltraBeyondBeliefPerfectlyUnifiedDefinition) Video with 101.9 BiGGDolbyDaDDyPolk Tsunami Surround the Globe Sound. Just the thought of wanting to view a Document, WEBB page, or ANYTHING ELSE in ANY FORMAT, and the MicroIBMMACSoft Implant will project an Image on ANY Surface Perfectly with the aforementioned Sound System using a Projector embedded within their AT&TT-NokiaSemens UltraViolet Molar Implant.
Sounds Ridiculous?¿?
So did Terabytes of Disk Storage just 15 Years ago!!!
Formats
by ewelch - 5/1/09 6:56 PM In reply to: How do you future proof your digitally archived documents? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
No to JPEG and no to Word .DOC. Microsoft doesn't support word document formats that we all have used - already. What about 20 years from now?
There may be some way in the future to automate upgrading formats such as .doc to a more current format. That's what computers are good at, right? Doing boring repetitive jobs? They just have to be smart enough to do the conversion without human input.
As for jpegs, that's a bad choice to start with. Every time you save a jpeg file, you reduce the quality. If you must shoot jpegs to start with, the first thing you should do is convert them to TIF or PSD format. At least your important photos. Those are lossless formats that you can open and save again without losing quality. Though making adjustments to them will cause data loss - i.e. change that's irreversible. Unless you use Photoshop's adjustment layers, etc. that do not damage the original data.
Smart photographers are shooting dng because it's the most future-proof photo format at this point. Maybe someone will come up with something more future proof later, but for now, the current proprietary camera RAW file formats are not future-proofed, even if the camera makers survive. There are early formats that are already impossible to open in current operating systems. Don't believe their arguments about quality. It's nonsense.
Acrobat could be a good choice for documents, but it's not nearly modifiable enough. Hopefully in the future there will be file formats for word processing and other office functions that are open enough that they can be used for a long time without compromising innovation. But from Microsoft? Not likely.
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