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Samsung: Does the BD-P3600/4600 have the same Reon HQV upscaler?
Does the BD-P3600/4600 have the same Reon HQV upscaler?
by The_Pickle - 3/8/09 8:57 PMThere is a lot of chatter on other sites indicating the 3600 does NOT have the Reon upscaler. HD-Tech, can you confirm this? Do you know what upscaler these Blu-rays use? Also, do you know when the manuals will be posted for the new models?
Does the BD-P3600/4600 have the same Reon HQV upscaler?
by Samsung_HD_Tech
- 3/17/09 2:47 PM
In reply to: Does the BD-P3600/4600 have the same Reon HQV upscaler? by The_Pickle
The_Pickle,
I can't speak to the processing quite yet, but the 3600/4600 units will most definitely have an upgraded scaler.
--HDTech
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Any news yet?
by The_Pickle - 3/19/09 10:05 PM In reply to: Does the BD-P3600/4600 have the same Reon HQV upscaler? by Samsung_HD_Tech
The 3600 has been out for a few weeks now, but nothing on Samsung website.
I see a lot of talk on other sites that the 3600 does not have the Reon HQV upscaler, but, no mention about what replaced it.
3600 HQV
by kensbru - 3/25/09 6:52 AM In reply to: Does the BD-P3600/4600 have the same Reon HQV upscaler? by Samsung_HD_Tech
I called Samsung tech support and they said that it did have the HQV but I'm not sure I trust them.
Confirming... BD-P3600 and BD-P4600 upscaling chips
by Samsung_HD_Tech - 3/25/09 3:27 PM
In reply to: BD-P3600 and BD-P4600 upscaling chips by doogaz99
doogaz99,
You are correct. I'm not sure why that information was given, but the BD-P3600 and BD-P4600 do NOT have the HQV upscaler.
That said, I have it on good authority that the upscaler being used is a very high quality chip. I'm awaiting to see what information I can release (since I don't usually talk about internal processing or parts normally) regarding the upscaler.
--HDTech
imagine the possibilities
- Click here to visit the Samsung forum
- Click here to visit the Samsung store on CNET
Any news on the upscaler yet?
by The_Pickle - 3/26/09 8:57 PM In reply to: Confirming... BD-P3600 and BD-P4600 upscaling chips by Samsung_HD_Tech
The BD-P3600 is now listed on Samsung web site (but, no manual last time I checked). It seems like the BD-P3600 is now "officially" released. So, I would think (hope) you would have more liberty to talk about this as I consider up scaling a major feature for all DVD/Blu-ray players today.
Any news on the upscaler yet?
by Samsung_HD_Tech - 3/28/09 1:16 AM
In reply to: Any news on the upscaler yet? by The_Pickle
The_Pickle,
I agree in theory. However, the last thing I want to do is jump the gun on a press release, or worse, end up with some sort of inaccuracy posted on the internet to be cached and reviewed until the end of days. Considering my position, I just have to be totally cautious until I get the green light.
I haven't gotten it yet.
--HDTech
imagine the possibilities
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- Click here to visit the Samsung store on CNET
BD-P1600/3600/4600 Upscaler Chip . . . .
by SandFarmer - 4/4/09 9:00 AM In reply to: Any news on the upscaler yet? by Samsung_HD_Tech
Although the Upscaling Chip has a lot to do with the performance of the unit with DVD's and Netflix, and is the best on the market (even though the chip is the bottom of the pile), the Official Word is that NO the new models DO NOT have the Silicon Optix Reon chip. Samsung tried to save some money (raise profit margins) by using their own not as good upscaling chip. This was confirmed by BestBuy as I went to purchase one of the last two 2550's in my state. The sales rep wanted one also and was waiting to hear "officially" also and when I told him, he actually called their Samsung Rep and got the the "official word". No word if they have seen the error in their ways yet, but the Sammy rep, says it's only a matter of time, number of returns, and number of complaints. They are getting many complaints.
The Sales Rep grabbed one of the 2550's, marked down to 314.00 and I am going to wait. I can always pick up a refurb (274.00), of which I'd rather have anyways.
Samsung told me personally that they were using the Reon, but balked when I asked if I bought a 3600 (really bad styling, another source of complaints) and found out that they weren't, if they would refund my money or better yet get me a 2550. I heard crickets. The rep would not commit after that and the conversation got "guarded". So I would trust the BB manufacturers rep in that the Reon is not on board.
BD-P1600/3600/4600 Upscaler Chip . . . .
by Samsung_HD_Tech - 4/4/09 11:37 PM
In reply to: BD-P1600/3600/4600 Upscaler Chip . . . . by SandFarmer
SandFarmer,
We already confirmed that in this thread.
We have developed a chip this year that delivers an incredible picture. While you may note that "profit margin" may be the motivation, it also allows us to be more competitive by lowering the price for the consumer. There are two sides to using a quality in-house technology.
Rumors have a way of starting, so we try to quash them as quick as we can. 
--HDTech
imagine the possibilities
- Click here to visit the Samsung forum
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Then why is . . .
by SandFarmer - 4/5/09 12:57 PM In reply to: BD-P1600/3600/4600 Upscaler Chip . . . . by Samsung_HD_Tech
. . . Samsung corporate still saying that they are using the Reon? And why are the reviewers either saying that something is fishy or the new chip is not as good? Piggybacking off the known quality of the Reon, but it's not actually, hoping that we won't realize it? O ye misjudges the educated consumer. OR the attempting to be educated . . .
Fine you may, in theory, have established that the Reon is not being used. But Samsung corporate will not. I just posted what happened to me as I have investigated this. And we all know it's all about profit. To deny that is naive and you know better. Then the price point on these models would be a lot lower than it is, if this move was a cost savings to the consumer move and there would great fanfare by the pundits in your favor. AND why no fanfare and open information by corporate on this "remarkable" new chip of yours if it is so great. I think "cuz it ain't a Reon", nor Reon/Silicon Optix quality.
I saw the lit that is now available on the site for the 3600 and being in advertising for 30 years it is the best "skirting the issue" I have seen in a long while. I can take the same picture and place it two places and remark that the two "represent" the "implied" quality. There is no way that it can be represented in this manner, accurately nor morally. Give us a description of what was and why it was done. Sell me on your chip as you used the Reon to get the "notoriety" that having the Reon on board got you and brought us here. This is all too covert that the information is not out there that even this thread had to be started to try to answer the question. Why was I told by corporate that the Reon was being used when, as you have established, it's not. I hate this type of product deception.
The only rumor that is running rampant that Samsung should "quash quickly" is whether or not the new BD series has Reons. What's all the mystery?
Then why is . . .
by Samsung_HD_Tech - 4/6/09 2:57 AM
In reply to: Then why is . . . by SandFarmer
SandFarmer,
Where are we advertising that we use the Reon? Show me a definitive link where Samsung notes that the BD-P3600 will have a Reon chip. The word "rumor" plays a very large part here. There are hundreds of rumors, which is why we teamed with C|Net to be a portal of accurate information for everyday consumers looking for definitive answers.
<i>Fine you may, in theory, have established that the Reon is not being used.</i>
No, I haven't "in theory" established that. I posted it on 3-25-09 as a pretty definitive statement that left no room for theories.
http://forums.cnet.com/5208-13973_102-0.html?messageID=3011267&tag=forums06;posts#3011267
<i> And we all know it's all about profit. To deny that is naive and you know better.</i>
"I know better"?
I have given a very respectful answer to you, and I do hope you can be respectful to me in return. Your suggestions that I'm trying to "fool the customer" or piggyback off of a name brand are ill-aimed and without sources, and your "hoping [customers] won't realize it" and "you know better" statements are something I find hard to overlook in keeping the spirit of open discussion. You may not like that Samsung didn't make a fanfare for NOT using a specific technology, but I'm not the target of your scorn, I'm not the un-named "guy at corporate" who gave you misinformation, and I'd appreciate it if we could keep it on a civil level.
I've seen the chip in action, and it looks great. The picture is clear and crisp, and you can see for yourself at any retailer that has it hooked up. NONE of the reviews I've read note any reduced quality in picture image, and most use words like "excellent" and "stunning".
<i>I can take the same picture and place it two places and remark that the two "represent" the "implied" quality. There is no way that it can be represented in this manner, accurately nor morally.</i>
We did the same thing when illustrating the Reon HQV Chip.
http://tinyurl.com/95k7q5
<i>AND why no fanfare and open information by corporate on this "remarkable" new chip of yours if it is so great. I think "cuz it ain't a Reon", nor Reon/Silicon Optix quality.</i>
I'll let the reviewers and customers tell the story:
"Excellent image quality on Blu-ray movies"
http://reviews.cnet.com/video-players-and-recorders/samsung-bd-p3600-blu/4505-6463_7-33488065.html?tag=api&subj=re
And the subsequent reviews:
"Up converting is about as good as the <b>2550 I could tell no difference</b>,very good."
"excellent upscale for regular Dvd's, dynamite blu ray play,"
What could I possibly say that would supercede numerous reviews citing excellent picture quality in both upscaling and blu-ray? Quite honestly, it appears that the 2550 comparison reviewer was intentionally comparing it to a unit that had the Reon chip, and was looking for a difference and didn't find one.
Fanfare or not, this chip is obviously impressive. The bottom line is that people like the result, and the picture quality is held in high regard. So our chip is getting some awesome reviews, and deserves that merit.
--HDTech
imagine the possibilities
- Click here to visit the Samsung forum
- Click here to visit the Samsung store on CNET
Too much market hype!
by The_Pickle - 4/6/09 3:06 PM In reply to: Then why is . . . by Samsung_HD_Tech
I think what is going on here is a lot of marketing hype. When you look at the "with" and "without HQV" on the BD-P2500 page, it really shows that the HQV is a "must have". I think what is getting some people worked up is that advertisement (and others by Reon, Faroudja, etc) leads people to think that if I don't have HQV, my picture is going to look like the "without". If that is the case, then that was very effective advertisement for the HQV chip.
My guess is those "without" pictures are old, first generation upscale chips and not representative of the latest generation of players. Had Samsung trademarked a name for their new upscale chip (say Samsung High Quality Upscaler or SHQU), the response might have been different. But then the debate would be "Which is better, HQV or SHQU?".
I think we are really getting worked up over nothing as the HQV chip is only one small part of the video processing. Throw a HQV chip in a $30 DVD player and I am sure the picture quality will be disappointing. Through Burr-Brown op-amps in a $10 CD player, you will still have a $10 sounding CD player. But, then you could print "HQV" or Burr-Brown on the box!
It sounds like the "pro" reviewers are really impressed by the new Samsung chip. I would be interesting to see if Samsung trademarks a name for it and starts selling it to other manufactures. I just got the 3600 last week and so far, I am impressed.
PS: I can remember getting worked up over having a Faroudja chip in my old monitor years ago. That was until I herd about HQV!
Too much market hype!
by Samsung_HD_Tech - 4/6/09 5:31 PM
In reply to: Too much market hype! by The_Pickle
The_Pickle,
Well hype is good. I mean, some of the name brand chipsets have a following with video enthusiasts. I won't deny that the chip is a good chip, and the name brand propels the product that it's in.
However, the absence of that chip doesn't demote the product down to "inferior" status, nor does the decision not to use it only in some products. Our Blu-Ray units did great before we used the Reon chip, they did great with it, and they're doing good so far without it again.
I can't comment on the chip's name or any details, as I haven't received a response back from my inquiry. When I'm able to discuss details from an informed position, I'll be happy to.
I think people will be pleased with our lineup this year, and that includes with the absence of a name-brand chip. Some may argue the point, and I don't mind the open discussion, or the objection and disagreement - and even disappointment. I certainly won't knock someone's perception that chip "x" is better or worse than chip "y", but at the same time, because chip "x" isn't made from the same company as chip "y" doesn't automatically mean it's not a quality part that does a good job.
I hope that clarifies.
I remember we had Faroudja in our early DLP and upscaling DVD players. It was later replaced with an internal Samsug processor, and provided a great picture.
The bottom line is that the name brand technology isn't cheap, and that's factored into the price of the unit. Just because we drop the price to stimulate sales doesn't mean our cost for that chip drops. So that upgrade is factored into the price for the consumer. The goal is to stay competitive, sell units (yes, I said that), and give the customer a great experience. To dismiss this as "we're skimping - it's all about profit" doesn't hold. It's a smart way to be competitive against fierce competition, while providing a quality product.
--HDTech
imagine the possibilities
- Click here to visit the Samsung forum
- Click here to visit the Samsung store on CNET
Is it really cheaper to make your own?
by The_Pickle - 4/6/09 3:41 PM In reply to: BD-P1600/3600/4600 Upscaler Chip . . . . by SandFarmerI really have to question if it was really cheaper for Samsung to develop their own chip vs. buy the HQV from IDT. Samsung_Tech said that they have been working on it for over a year. That's a lot of man hours. Unless Samsung is going to mass market their chip, when you divide up the cost of development over the number of units sold, it would surprise me to see it come out at a cost savings over buying an off the shelf chip!
My guess is that Samsung thought that they could do better then the competition and this chip is it's answer. My guess is after the successful launch of this chip in the 2009 Blu-ray players, you will see some Samsung fanfair in the near future!
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