Buzz Out Loud Lounge: I disagree with Molly on "service packs"
I disagree with Molly on "service packs"
by bdegrande - 3/23/09 3:35 PMWhen Apple did release an OS upgrade that WAS a service pack - 10.1 - it was FREE. Subsequent upgrades have added major features. Try going back to Jaguar and it will barely be recognizable as the same OS without Spotlight, Spaces, etc. I don't think there has been one upgrade since that is less of an upgrade than Windows 7 is from Vista. Apple has also done some good things in OS pricing, the 5 user family packs are something Microsoft should copy. I WILL be disappointed if Snow Leopard costs $129, and I don't think it will be. We shall see. It is also a plus not to have to deal with crippled versions of the OS - as netbook owners who find out that THEIR version of Windows 7 will only run three simultaneous apps will be.
Of course
by Nicholas Buenk - 3/23/09 5:03 PM In reply to: I disagree with Molly on "service packs" by bdegrandeAnd for service packs, the 0.0.1 releases. Apple comes out with one every 2-3 months. They are 500MB updates these days!
I'm looking forward to snow leopard. The whole OS is being moved to 64bit, even Safari and QuickTime. And it has opencl and grandcentral to let developers use multicores and do GPU computing. Going to be the fastest OS X. They say there won't be any consumer features, but who cares it's massively changed under the hood.
I knew someone would post a thread about this... :)
by n74jw - 3/23/09 5:47 PM In reply to: I disagree with Molly on "service packs" by bdegrandeApple's updates to OS X are more than just "service packs". The 10.x.y updates could be the closest thing to a service pack that Mac OS offers.
Molly, Windows 7 will not be a re-write of Windows Vista, I hate to tell you. Look at the version numbers. Vista is NT 6.0, and 7 is 6.1 Don't expect too much from Windows 7, that way you won't be let down. Anyone that would really accept a version of any Os that will only run three apps, concurrently, needs to do their homework.
Most of the OSX upgrades I have purchased
by minimalist - 3/23/09 6:11 PM In reply to: I disagree with Molly on "service packs" by bdegrandeover the years have added significant new features. They are hardly service packs.
"Service packs" mostly fix critical issues and bugs, not add features (unless this feature is something desperately needed to patch a big problem... like the Security Center in XP SP2). Even after Leopard came out Apple continued to update Tiger whenever a security issue or a bug came up.
Charging 10 bucks for every iPod Touch upgrade is total BS though. Yes, Apple is well within their rights to do so but its just bad juju. And you have to ask if a measley 10 bucks is worth all the bad PR they get every time they do this? You have to give a little to get a little and nickle and diming your customers is not a way to endear them to buy more stuff from you on your App store.
And don't give me crap about accounting. If the Zune can retroactively upgrade 1st Gen Zunes to the completely overhauled OS, for free, without the accounting Gods pelting them with lightning bolts then the iPod Touch can be upgraded for free as well.
It's all symantecs
by Renegade Knight - 3/24/09 4:18 PM In reply to: I disagree with Molly on "service packs" by bdegrandeService Pack, Patch, Upgrade. It's all variations of a theme. That Apple charges a fee to enable hardware via a firmware update is not exactly customer friendly. I'm not sure what the heck leapords have to do with OS X other than they don't want to move past OS X. that would be like Windows Vista 7 X.
That other companies say "buy early and get free updates for life" turn around can call 2.0 of the software (when 1.9 and 2.0 do the same dang thing) "new" and cut off your lifetime upgrades. It's just wordplay that makes them feel better about screwing over their customers. Auction Tamer and Network Magic both pulled this stunt.
When Microsoft released SP1 that made Vista work like a near release Beta I'm not sure whta you call it, but that they say 7 is the next big thing (which just fixes Vista). You can call it a release and I'm sure Microsoft will tout it as the next version, but it's still Windows and it's reportedly finally working since the last release(which some called XP SP3) screwed things up so badly.
At the end of the day it's all marketing and they are companies trying to sell us a product.
Not saying too much
by n74jw - 3/24/09 5:34 PM In reply to: It's all symantecs by Renegade KnightIt may be all semantic, but you are not saying all that much. There are substantial technical differences between a patch and a service pack. The later usually being a culmination of the previous with some new added features as well. Patches address a single issue on the regular patch cycle, while a hotfix is important enough to be released out of the normal cycle.
Apple doesn't hold to the traditional service pack model that Microsoft does. Service pack releases for Mac OS X could be looked at with the 10.x.y releases, 10.5.6 for the recent version of "Leopard" (a moniker). Mac OS X is a brand name, like Microsoft Windows. OS X 10.5 "leopard" could be considered and equivalent to Windows Vista. Software companies are legally held to update their products against security and stability threats for the declared life of the product. iPhone OS 3.0 is a new product, which will work on existing Apple products. The expectation that iPhone OS 3.0 should be free is like expecting the Windows 7 upgrade to be free for current Vista users.
Don't like the idea of $9.95, don't buy it...
Don't like the idea of $9.95, complain about it
by Nicholas Buenk - 3/24/09 8:15 PM In reply to: Not saying too much by n74jwCapitalism doesn't mean you have to be a sucker or have nothing. There is supposed to be the saying, the customer is always right. Satisfaction matters. Disatisfaction should be voiced.
Capitalism not withstanding...
by n74jw - 3/25/09 6:40 AM In reply to: Don't like the idea of $9.95, complain about it by Nicholas Buenk... has nothing to do with it. The business model of a technology vendor covers the release of upgraded versions for a previous model. Put yourself in Apple's shoes. What is their motive for the time, work, and $$$ spent in developing iPhone OS 3.0, if it is to be given away for free? The cost in doing so, does not fiscally justify the expense of doing so. We all know Apple could probably afford to do so, but the fiscal responsibility towards the stock-holders and themselves will always take precedence. We also know that Apple could care less about it's customers. That is why I don't feel bad about buying one copy of OS X and installing it on two computers. Right or not, many folks probably feel that way. Software costs money...
Simple
by Nicholas Buenk - 3/25/09 8:28 AM In reply to: Capitalism not withstanding... by n74jwIt helps hardware sales. Keeps people happy with the product. It is being given away for the iPhone owners I would note, even the generation one iPhone.
I disagree that Apple doesn't care less about it's customers. They care about the quality of the product, their brand and maintaining the hype of the product. Regular software updates all help there. In my experience Apple is usually very responsive to criticisms. But, in all honesty all apple fans know to expect to be ripped off whenever Apple feels like they can get away without an outcry.
Ohh software is licensed in ridiculous ways, as I see it they have no right to tell me how and where I use the software on my own property. It's an artificial legal limitation on the product for no good reason other than to gouge the consumer for every last dollar and is contemptible.
Motive?
by minimalist - 3/25/09 9:06 PM In reply to: Capitalism not withstanding... by n74jw"What is their motive for the time, work, and $$$ spent in developing iPhone OS 3.0, if it is to be given away for free?"
How about the gazillion dollars they are making off the App Store?
And the smart company would realize that pissing off your customers by nickle and diming some, but not all of them for updates that allow them to spend MORE money in your walled garden will make them less likely to spend freely.
It is not that much.
by n74jw - 3/26/09 7:56 AM In reply to: Motive? by minimalistPeople who want it are going to spend anyway. The inclusion of a newer version on the same theme will not offset and cost benefit.
Apple does not care about pissing off it's customers as much as you would think. Look at other business decisions they had made in the past. Removing FW400 from the MacBook, taking out the option to remove the battery in the 17" MacBook Pro, no copy & paste in the previous version of the iPhone OS.
The business decisions Apple makes are done toward the benefit of the company and not the consumer.
The fact that they bothered to add copy and paste
by Nicholas Buenk - 3/26/09 3:57 PM In reply to: It is not that much. by n74jwAnd tethering etc at all. Proves they care about customers. We need to keep the pressure on them so we can get multitasking and a more open app platform though. CNET, criticise the device more. 
Regardless if android and the palm pre do well, they'll need to react.
FW400 was taken away because they improved the GPU and used an aluminium case, needed some way to differentiate their consumer laptop from their professional laptop. Non-removable battery gave better battery life. The outcry about these 2 things is not enough to reverse the decision.
I think here is an example of how responsive apple actually is to criticism. Greenpeace, back in 2006.
http://news.cnet.com/Greenpeace,-Apple-clash-over-toxic-waste/2100-1014_3-6110513.html
Apple's response.
http://www.apple.com/macbookpro/environment.html
Clever company, fixed the problem and now uses it as a marketing device. One of the best corporate responses to criticism since McDonald's reaction to supersize me.
Proves nothing...
by n74jw - 3/26/09 4:47 PM In reply to: The fact that they bothered to add copy and paste by Nicholas BuenkIt proves that they want to sell more iPhones. If Apple were to add all of the features everyone would want initially, there would be little reason for existing and new customers to adopt the product. All CNet has to do is have Natali keep losing her phones and there is a stable market. How come my MacBook Pro has FW400 and an aluminum case? It's the up-sell, Apple is shooting for with that decision. Most folks will probably never use FW400, but there are a couple of reasons it is better than USB 2.0. I think the battery life is highly suspect. No manufacturer of any electronic device ever came close in my experience when actual usage is taken into account. Apple included, take their estimate and divide it in half. Keep in mind that this is my business. The average life for a MacBook Pro battery is two years. That information comes from the 80+ MacBook Pro's I have out there in support. Being able to just buy a new battery and replace it is much more convenient than creating an appointment at the Apple store.
The "Green" angle is a separate ball of wax.
I don't disagree with most of that
by Nicholas Buenk - 3/26/09 6:32 PM In reply to: Proves nothing... by n74jwBut there is a lot of stuff they wouldn't have done without criticism like copy and paste.
But I do disagree about the battery. Like with all devices, battery life is ranked with light load or at idle. Take about 1/3 off manufactures figures to get to a more typical usage is my experience. It's still the longest life 17" laptop. And being a geek I don't need to go to the apple store to replace rye battery I can service it myself. 6 screws to take the case off, another 2 to get the battery out.
Experience proves it...
by n74jw - 3/27/09 7:08 AM In reply to: I don't disagree with most of that by Nicholas Buenk...in my case and for those that I support, a MacBook Pro battery lasts for around two years. These people usually user the laptop while it is connected to A/C power, but many also travel quite extensively. I don't trust the battery capacity to hold to the claims Apple is making.
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