Miscellaneous laptop discussions : Extending the life of my laptop's battery
- 3/20/09 3:10 PM
Wits End
by rafiki65 - 3/19/09 4:00 AM In reply to: Extending the life of my laptop's battery by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
Lucky Old Wits, as we used to say in the Navy in pre-PC days
Laptop battery
by kwanteq - 3/19/09 11:46 AM In reply to: Extending the life of my laptop's battery by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
Most of the laptops come equiped with a lithium ione battery and they have caracteristics like no other battery.
1. They have a shelf life so check the manufacturing date on it's lable. these batteries will last max 3 years nomatter you use it or not.
2. Never run it "flat" or discharge it completely this leads to premature failure of the battery.
3. You can charge it as many times as you like it will not build memory.
4. Heat is it's enamy. We all heard of these batteries "exploding" or burning, this is because of hardware failure (99%) & not battery failure (1%)- the hardware that manages the charging & temp can somtimes fail and then it cooks the life out of the battery.
These batteries work on the same principal as the battery in your car, it has an anode (+) & cathode (-) plate with an electrolite (the liquid in the battery) For these batteries to work this electrolite is an organic solvent that is highly flamable.
I have found a website that will give you more indepth (scientific) information, just do a Google search "HOW STUFF WORKS" and read all about it there
Qualifications...
by device_node - 3/19/09 1:53 PM In reply to: Laptop battery by kwanteq1. Shelf life of 3 years is only if kept at 50% charge.
2. You can't run it "flat" literally because of the protection circuit. Running it down to the minimum allowed by the protection circuit will not kill the battery but doing it too many times will shorten its life.
3. TRUE.
4. TRUE and most important.
- John
extension of battery life
by rahulraj0007 - 3/20/09 1:28 AM In reply to: Extending the life of my laptop's battery by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
hiiii,,,,,,,,i am alex,i have also an hp laptop.If use lap after fully charged,it is more efficient.Also discharge d battery properly
Great batteries, most volitile.
by ryknroll - 3/21/09 5:18 AM In reply to: Extending the life of my laptop's battery by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
Yes the lithium-ion battery is perhaps one of the most advanced form of power cells we have today. Just as every rose has it's thorn, the Li-ion's bad side is it's instability to a point of exploding when it reaches that thermal point as some have allready mentioned. This battery has great characteristics only when its controller keeps it within it's charge and discharging rates. If you pulled the little circuit board out of the cell cluster and charged them without any measure the batteries would get hot and may explode. In the same manner if not suppressed on it's discharge rate by the controller, batteries become hot and can explode.
Some others have covered it very well on what could be done to prolong the life. I can agree completely with the engineer who recommended 60% Charge storages on days battery pulled due to plugged in and not to discharge fully. And not to place in freezer, keep plugged in always, nor "Topping Off" repetedly to full charge. All in all I think most has been mentioned about what to, and not to do.
Ni-cads on the other hand. They have no controller in them, have a very strong output but have a problem with electron flow after time. They like to go full bore from discharge to charge and even more to expend all their energy all the way down. After a few times of robbing that freedom of energy bliss, they seem to oxidize at all connection points internally. They start to lose their capacity overall. No, there is no such think as ni-cad cell memory. Just think of it as a new car losing it's shine. Please don't try this anytime as it's not recommended and could cause explosion and electrical shock/damage but I used to take power tool ni-cads of about the 12V flaver and when they held no more charge I would wake them up(give that car back some ofm it's lustre) by inducing double the voltage or a bit more from a high Watt DC power supply I Built at the time. After the instance, Not completely new but at least 75% of it's power back and ready for another year. Don't even think of this torture to a li-ion unless you like explosions.
Ni-mh well.. just around to walk behind ni-cad in regards to power but earned respect with it's ability for many charges and not being tempermental to a full state of charge or discharge. Worthy for small size cells as well.
Well that's my two cents worth to fill in too much as I see it now on your subject. Hope you find the answer or at least gain some knowledge in the respect of these cells we all work with every day.
really simple
by Kegtapper - 3/21/09 1:07 PM In reply to: Extending the life of my laptop's battery by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
The easiest methods are improve on what the manufacturer gave you. Since I am not into too much techno-babble I will try to put it into laymens terms.
1: Replace the harddrive with a Solid State 32 or 64gb. And put the OS on that.
2: If you can find an LCD that uses LED backlights, grab it.
3: Remove the battery when using AC power.
4: Increase your ram to the MAX that the OS will support.
5: If watching movies- view them from and ISO (image) in storage rather than DVD/CD drive
Now for the clarification-
a: a solid state drive has no mechanical parts - ie motor, heads, and solenoids that consume power. This will greatly extend the life of batteries.
b: CFC/Tube backlights are also big consumers of battery power.
c: This will save the battery from being charged when not needed and not having to trust the manufacturer literature regarding how long a battery will last.
d: By having more ram, the swap file access is less and if still using physical mechanical drives, it will not have to access as much.
e: Watching movies from RAM also saves battery life by not using the DVD motor. If cannot watch them from RAM, burn ISO on an SD memory card.
The above suggestions and solutions (if able to do all) should get you up to 10 hours or more battery life per charge. Since the biggest culprits have been eliminated. Otherwise set the LCD to 40-45% brightness if no LED backlight available.
how to charge when to charge table for all batteries
by micky104t - 3/21/09 10:57 PM In reply to: Extending the life of my laptop's battery by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
hi guys i am new here...i found some helpful tips to ur question..following is a brief guide to the batteries used in our daily life...
x Nickel-based (NiCd and NiMH)
How should I prepare my new battery? Nickel-based batteries come partially charged. Prime new battery by putting on a 14-16h charge.
Can I damage my battery if incorrectly prepared? No; without priming, the performance will be low at first, then gradually improve with use.
How do I prepare a battery with charge indication? Fully charge and discharge battery. Repeat when readings get inaccurate.
Should I use up all battery energy before charging? Yes, fully discharge once every 1-3 months to prevent memory. It is not necessary to deplete the battery before each charge. Over cycling wears down NiMH.
Should I charge my battery partially or fully? Allow full charge without interruptions. Repeated partial charge can cause heat buildup. (Many chargers terminate charge by heat. A fully charged battery will re-heat, causing overcharge.)
- Should I remove the battery from the charger when full?
- Should I remove the AC when my laptop is not in use? Yes, it is best to remove the pack from the charger when full. A prolonged trickle charge to a fully charged battery can be harmful. (Laptops use Lithium-ion)
Should the battery be kept charged when not in use? Not critical. Manufacturers recommend a 40% charge for long storage. (Open terminal voltage cannot determine state-of-charge.) Store in a cool place. Battery can be fully depleted and recharged. Priming may be needed.
Will the battery heat up during charge? Yes, towards full charge. The battery must cool down when ready. Discontinue using a charger that keeps the battery warm on standby.
What are the allowable charging temperatures? Important: Rechargeable batteries can be used under a wide temperature range.
This does not automatically permit charging at these extreme conditions.
The maximum allowable charge temperatures are shown below:
Slow charge (0.1)
Fast charge (0.5-1C) 0°C - 45°C (32°F - 113°F)
5°C - 45°C (41°F - 113°F)
Charging a hot battery decreases the charge time. The battery may not fully charge.
What should I know about chargers? Best results are achieved with a fast-charger that terminates the charge by other than temperature alone. Fastest full-charge time: Slightly over 1 hour.
x Lithium-ion (Li-ion)
How should I prepare my new battery? Li-ion comes partially charged. You can use the battery right away and charge it when needed.
Can I damage my battery if incorrectly prepared? No; Li-ion is forgiving to partial and full charge. No priming is needed when new.
How do I prepare a battery with charge indication? Fully charge and discharge battery. Repeat when readings get inaccurate.
Should I use up all battery energy before charging? No, it is better to recharge more often; avoid frequent full discharges.
Yes, on batteries with a fuel gauge, allow a full discharge once a month to enable reset
Should I charge my battery partially or fully? Does not matter. Charging in stages is acceptable. Full charge termination occurs by reading the voltage level and charge current. Charging a full battery is safe and does not cause harm.
- Should I remove the battery from the charger when full?
- Should I remove the AC when my laptop is not in use? It does not matter. The charger automatically cuts the charge current when the battery is full. A laptop may be connected to the AC when not in use.
Should the battery be kept charged when not in use? Best to store at 40% charge or 3.75-3.80V/cell open terminal. Cool storage is more important than state-of-charge. Do not fully deplete battery because Li-ion may turn off its protection circuit.
Will the battery heat up during charge? No, little heating is generated during charge. A large laptop battery may get lukewarm. Do not allow the battery to heat during charge.
What are the allowable charging temperatures?
Slow charge (0.1)
Fast charge (0.5-1C) 0°C - 45°C (32°F - 113°F) 5C° - 45°C (41°F - 113°F)
Temperature sensor may prevent charge or cut off the charge prematurely.
What should I know about chargers? Charger should apply full charge. Avoid economy chargers that advertise one-hours charge. Fastest full-charge time: 2-3 hours.
x Lead-acid (Sealed or flooded)
How should I prepare my new battery? Lead acid comes fully charged. For best result, apply a topping charge to assure full charge.
Can I damage my battery if incorrectly prepared? Lead acid needs a fully saturated charge to keep good performance. A charge can take over 10h.
How do I prepare a battery with charge indication? Larger lead acid use different charge indicator to nickel & lithium-based chemistries.
Should I use up all battery energy before charging? No, it is better to recharge more often; avoid frequent full discharges. Deep cycles wear down the battery. Use a larger battery if full cycles are required.
Should I charge my battery partially or fully? Does not matter. Charging in stages is acceptable. Full charge termination occurs by reading the voltage level and charge current. Charging a full battery is safe and does not cause harm.
- Should I remove the battery from the charger when full?
- Should I remove the AC when my laptop is not in use? A float charge of about 2.27V/cell is advisable. Do not allow the open cell voltage to drop below 2.10V/cell while in storage.(Not used for laptops)
Should the battery be kept charged when not in use? IMPORTANT: always keep battery fully charged. A discharged battery causes sulfation (insulating layer in the cell). This condition is often irreversible.
Will the battery heat up during charge? No, the battery should remain cool or lukewarm to the touch. The battery must remain cold on maintenance charge.
What are the allowable charging temperatures?
Slow charge (0.1)
Fast charge (0.5-1C) 0°C - 45°C (32°F - 113°F)
5C° - 45°C (41°F - 113°F)
Warm temperature lowers the battery voltage. Serious overcharge occurs if the cut-off voltage is not reached.
What should I know about chargers? Multi-level charges shorten charge time. Charge must be fully saturated. Failing to do so will gradually decrease the capacity. Fastest full-charge time: 8-14 hours.
how to get optimal usage of battery
by micky104t - 3/21/09 11:06 PM In reply to: how to charge when to charge table for all batteries by micky104tin continuation with the previous blog here is a guide for optimal utilisation of all batteries
- Nickel-cadmium
(NiCd)
Used in Two-way radios, power tools, medical.
Charging Do run the battery fully down once per month; try to use up all energy before charging.
Do not leave battery in charger for more than 2 days because of memory.
Avoid getting battery too hot during charge.
Charge methods: Constant current, followed by trickle charge when full. Fast-charge preferred over slow charge.
Slow charge = 16h
Rapid charge = 3h
Fast charge = 1h+
Discharging Full cycle does not harm NiCd.
NiCd is one of the most hardy and durable chemistries.
Service needs Discharge to 1V/cell every 1 to 2 months to prevent memory.
Do not discharge before each charge.
Storage Best to store at 40% charge in a cool place. Open terminal voltage cannot determine state-of-charge. 5 years and longer storage possible. Prime battery if stored longer than 6 months.
Disposal Do not dispose; contains toxic metals; must be recycled.
- Nickel-metal-hydride (NiMH)
Used in Similar application as NiCd; higher density.
Charging Do run the battery fully down once every 3 months. Over-cycling is not advised.
Do not leave battery in charger for more than 2 days because of memory.
Avoid getting battery too hot during charge.
Charge methods:
Constant current, followed by trickle charge when full. Slow charge not recommended.
Battery will get warm towards full charge.
Rapid charge = 3h
Fast charge = 1h+
Discharging Avoid too many full cycles because of wear. Use 80% depth-of-discharge.
NiMH has higher energy density than NiCd at the expense of shorter cycle life.
Service needs Discharge to 1V/cell every 3 months to prevent memory.
Do not discharge before each charge
Storage Store at 40% charge in a cool place. Open terminal voltage cannot determine state-of-charge. Prime battery if stored longer than 6 months.
Disposal Should be recycled. Low volume household NiMH may be disposed.
- Lithium-ion
(Li-ion)
Used in Cell phones, laptops, video cameras.
Charging Do charge the battery often. The battery lasts longer with partial rather than full discharges.
Do not use if pack gets hot during charge. Check also charger.
Charge methods: Constant voltage to 4.20V/cell (typical). No trickle-charge when full. Li-ion may remain in the charger (no memory). Battery must remain cool. No fast-charge possible.
Rapid charge = 3h
Discharging Avoid full cycle because of wear. 80% depth-of-discharge recommended. Re- charge more often. Avoid full discharge. Low voltage may cut off safety circuit
Service needs No maintenance needed. Loses capacity due to aging whether used or not.
Storage Store at 40% charge in a cool place (40% state-of-charge reads 3.75-3.80V/cell at open terminal.
Do not store at full charge and at warm temperatures because of accelerated aging.
Disposal Should be recycled. Low volume household Li-ion may be disposed
- Lead-acid
(Sealed or flooded)
Used in Motorcycles, cars, wheelchairs, UPS.
Charging Do charge the battery immediately after use. Lead-acid must always be kept in a charged condition. The battery lasts longer with partial rather than full discharges. Over-cycling is not advised.
Charge methods: Constant voltage to 2.40/cell (typical), followed by float held at 2.25V/cell.
Battery must remain cool. Fast charge not possible; can remain on float charge.
Slow charge = 14h
Rapid charge = 10h
Discharging Avoid full cycle because of wear. Use 80% depth-of-discharge. Recharge more often or use larger battery.
Low energy density limits lead-acid to wheeled applications
Service needs Apply topping charge every 6 months. Occasional discharge/ charge may improve performance.
Storage Store always at a full state-of-charge. Do not store below 2.10V/cell; apply topping charge very 6 months.
Disposal Do not dispose; must be recycled.
No such thing as "Memory"
by device_node - 3/26/09 5:18 PM In reply to: how to get optimal usage of battery by micky104tI can't stress this enough... there is no such thing as "Memory" in today's NiCds. There hasn't been for 10 or 15 years.
"Memory Effect" in the first NiCd batteries was an effect where a fully-charged cell would rapidly fall in terminal voltage to the voltage at which it sat for long periods of time. NiCd batteries have not had this effect for at least 10 years. Neither NiMH nor LiIon ever had this effect.
The degeneration of NiCd cells, like all rechargeables, is due mostly to high temperatures in charging, use, or storage, but particularly in charging.
NiCds are also prone to developing internal metallic crystals ("whiskers") which bridge the terminals and short the cells. They develop these on long trickle charging.
As NiCds degrade with heat, they hold less and less charge and seem to drop in voltage faster. This is due to an upshift in the half-cell potential from chemical degradation in the cells. Since the voltage at half-charge is increased, a charger will stop charging at an earlier time and will not fully charge the cell. This results in a lower output voltage when the cell is put under load because it's only at 3/4 charge or whatever. This is commonly misinterpreted as "Memory Effect," but is in fact just a low-charge effect.
Neither deep discharge nor voodoo chants nor anything else will improve this problem.
There is no "Memory."
Extending Lithium Ion Battery Life
by another2 - 3/22/09 7:42 AM In reply to: Extending the life of my laptop's battery by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
The number one thing you can do to extend the batteries lifetime is remove the battery from the machine when it is connected to AC power.
For example, if you come to your office or home and immediately plug in the AC, you should buy your new battery and leave your old one in the machine as a dummy if you don't have a cover for the slot.
The reason is, the battery may have 1000 recharge capability. Even though it is only on trickle charge when you leave it on AC all the time, that trickle counts against the recharge capability. So if recharging from half discharge counts as a half recharge, what does it cost you leave it charging every day for months if you just leave it plugged in 24x7?
I think it costs you a new battery every 6 months to a year.
HP batteries: LAMENTABLE QUALITY
by Panayiotis Kaldis - 3/23/09 5:25 AM In reply to: Extending the life of my laptop's battery by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
As experienced users may know, base and middle-class HP laptops do suffer from low quality Li ion batteries. I have been sorry to see mine and friends' batteries giving up the ghost in less than a year. To the contrary, my 4 year old Thinkpad R51 battery is still going strong. Both li ion, but not by the same make. HP guys you should reconsider your QC - or you will see customers giving you the cold shoulder.
Excellent points.
by MOSFET2288a - 3/23/09 11:08 AM In reply to: HP batteries: LAMENTABLE QUALITY by Panayiotis KaldisExcellent advice.
Hi
by jinbags - 3/24/09 3:51 AM In reply to: Extending the life of my laptop's battery by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
when using your laptop athome try to detach the battery from the laptop and use its adaptor instead to save the life of the battery. Use only when needed outdoor.
actual experience re: "dead" laptop batteries
by billy-mejia - 3/24/09 1:35 PM In reply to: Extending the life of my laptop's battery by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
We suffered the same fate, Raji. I bought my Dell Inspiron 6400 in July 2007 and after about 1 year the battery cannot be recharged anymore. From the time the battery went "dead", my laptop was just like a desktop PC w/o UPS. In November last year, I shared the problem while having lunch with my Iranian friends and one of them told me that he learned from one of his friends that "when your laptop battery can no longer be recharged... remove it from the laptop, put it in a plastic bag, seal the plastic bag, and place the bagged battery in the freezer overnight/12 hours. After 12 hours, thaw the "frozen" battery for 6-8 hrs, then place it back to your laptop. Connect your laptop/adapter to the outlet, allow at least 2 hrs of battery recharging before using your laptop (2 hrs. allowance for reconditioning/reviving the "dead" battery). After 2 hrs. you can already use your PC and have the battery fully charged. After that you observe what happens next."
This was what I did to my "dead" laptop battery and sure enough it was revived! Until now it's perfectly working and it can last for more than 1 hour whenever there's no external power. Try this Raji on your old battery and find out if it could still be "resurrected". Whatever be your experience with your "dead" battery please share with me. Hoping that you succeed as I did.
May be useful...
by AccessoryGenieDotCom - 3/25/09 4:13 PM In reply to: Extending the life of my laptop's battery by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
We own a web site where we sell batteries, so recently I added some text to help people care for their batteries that addresses the same question. I've tried to remove any of the branding from this so hopefully there's nothing left in this that might be considered spam.
yyyy = Brand name
xxxx = OEM Model Number
Caring for your brand yyyy xxxx Laptop Battery:
1. Begin by completely charging your xxxx laptop battery.
2. Your batteries will achieve peak performance if you exercise them properly by allowing the xxxx battery to completely run down before charging it again. It is not uncommon for laptop batteries to require four cycles before reaching peak performance.
3. When charging your xxxx battery for the first time you may notice that the charging completes after a shorter time than expected; this is not uncommon and exercising the battery properly should correct this.
4. If you do not use your battery on a regular basis you should exercise it before attempting to use it more regularly.
5. xxxx Batteries which have been kept in storage for a long time will lose their power, even if they were stored with a full charge. This is a natural process and you may find it necessary to recharge the battery again after taking it out of storage.
6. It is typical for a xxxx battery to become slightly warm to the touch while charging or discharging.
What kind of performance can I expect from my yyyy xxxx Laptop Battery?
1. The run-time of a typical xxxx laptop battery is largely determined by the demands made on it by the notebook computer. Monitor use, accessing the hard drive, and use of other peripherals all drain your laptop battery in a variable amount that will be different for all end-users.
2. yyyy laptop batteries are designed to perform at the same level or above as your original brand name battery. A good rule of thumb to determine battery life is milliAmp-hours, usually expressed mAh, which is a description of the expected power capacity of the battery. Put simply, a higher number mAh battery will last longer than a lower mAh rating. You can find a number of High Capacity batteries for laptops which are designed to provide the maximum battery life possible for your laptop, usually about 20-50% more battery time than a regular rated battery.
How long will my yyyy xxxx Laptop Battery last me?
1. It is not uncommon for an xxxx battery to complete up to 1000 charge-discharge cycles.
2. yyyy replacement batteries are typically under warranty and they will replace your product for free if it does not perform as expected.
3. It is normal to notice a decrease in battery run-time over the course of use.
4. Some users prefer to change their battery out when the runtime becomes less than desired rather than to wait until the battery completely dies. If you notice your battery is running about 30% of its original run-time when first purchased it is probable that you will want to change it.
What should I be looking for when it comes to yyyy batteries? Just what are Volts and Amps?
1. There are 2 ratings on every battery, volts and amp-hours (AH or mAh).
2. The voltage of this new battery should match the voltage of its original unless the batteries are different chemistries (Ni-MH and Li-ion batteries have different voltage ratings, even if they are for the same laptop).
3. Higher mAh rating is indicative of a longer run-time (higher capacity), and will not cause any incompatibilities.
I want my yyyy xxxx batteries to last as long as possible. How do I do that?
1. If your xxxx laptop battery is removed from the laptop on a regular basis and stored it can become soiled. Cleaning your battery contacts is a simple process using a cotton swab and Isopropyl alcohol. Having clean contacts helps maintain a good connection between your battery and notebook computer.
2. It’s best to exercise your xxxx battery at least once every two to three weeks.
3. If you are running on AC most of the time, putting an old, short run-time battery instead of a new battery is a better practice as the battery in the computer will be charged and discharged many more times than is needed and will ultimately shorten its life.
4. If you don’t plan on using your yyyy battery for over a month, find a dry, cool place away from heat and metallic objects to store it. It is typical for Li-ion batteries to discharge while being stored.
5. If you optimize your notebook’s power management features prior to use you can extend the life of your battery. Refer to your notebook’s user guide for more information.
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