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Storage: Do burned CDs and DVDs have a shelf life?
- 2/13/09 2:55 PM
Scared the *** outta me!
by MsDoright - 2/14/09 5:51 AM In reply to: Do burned CDs and DVDs have a shelf life? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
Y'all have successfully scared the life outta me!
I've always backed up my photos on CDs/DVDs and two external drives, thinking that this grandmother was NOT going to lose a single photo. I knew that external drives can die; been in that movie, have the data recovery bill to prove it. However, I wrongfully thought that the burned media would be safe.
Now, all I can think about is how long it's going to take me to put it all (250+GB) on Gold DVD's and how fast can I get the media and storage shipped to me and burned. Plus, where am I going to store all those discs in their new cases? That's a week out of my life.
And you young-un's wonder what retired grandparents do.
On a serious note ... thanks for all the info and thanks to CNet for bringing the subject to my attention. A new project has moved to the top of my list.
labels are bad?
by Cycleman - 2/14/09 6:34 AM In reply to: Scared the *** outta me! by MsDorightIs there any data to show that having a label on a disc is actually a bad thing?
By data, I mean, is there any confirmed research that someone can link to? If so, I'd like to read it.
Also, with writing on the disc with a pen (a safe one).
I'd rather look at hard data, than a presumption that these are harmful to a disc's shelf life.
Thanks
Epoxy has the shortest life
by ````` - 2/14/09 9:36 AM In reply to: Do burned CDs and DVDs have a shelf life? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
one 5 pack of individually boxed, triple sealed Sony CD-R's all went bad BEFORE burning: each was coated in a rainbowish haze of factory-dipped {epoxy?) that had softened during shipping or never dried. I managed to wash it off but this exposed the thin reflective coating and ruined the CD-R. I remember having issues with Sony 3.5"diskettes and Hi-8mm video tape. Evidently the Sony name is ALL you pay extra for. Back in the day, all I worried about casstette datapacks was stretching which was cured by copying a tape over itself when it started acting up.
Use good quality media and you will have no problems!
by SatRadFan - 2/14/09 9:39 AM In reply to: Do burned CDs and DVDs have a shelf life? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
I find it interesting that there is little discussion on the quality of the media itself.
Believe it or not, it makes virtually no difference what the "brand" name is written on the disc. It has everything to do with the chemical company that makes the discs!
There are only 3 or 4 chemical companies in the world that make optical media. Most are in Taiwan.
The BEST chemical companies out there are Taiyo Yuden (generally used by Sony and Fuji), and Mitsubishi Chemicals (Verbatim, Sony, Maxell).
If you want to know what chemical company is used, look at the bottom of the label (or the side) and see where it is manufactured! If it's made in Japan, 90% of the time it is good quality (Taiyo Yuden or Mitsubishi). If it's made in China, Taiwan or elsewhere, it is usually junk! The ONLY exception to this rule is Verbatim. They used to be in Japan, and moved their plant to Taiwan a few years back.
Discs from Taiyo Yuden or Mitsubishi will NOT suffer from rot or degradation, and they also have uniform burns all the way to the outer edge (this makes a HUGE difference if you burn data to fill up the disc).
If you want more information about quality media, and data burning tips, check out www.afterdawn.com/forums.
Hope this helps!
Bull Dookie
by SgtRon - 2/14/09 9:54 AM In reply to: Do burned CDs and DVDs have a shelf life? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
While the nearly 200 replies contain a lot of good advice, there's also an enormous abundance of, for lack of a better word, "Bull Dookie". Just goes to show one should take almost everything one reads on the internet with a large grain of salt.
The simple answer to your question is, yes, of course, everything has a life-span. Nothing lasts forever except time. There does, however, seem to be an extremely large range of "go-to-crap" time given for burned (at home) CDs/DVDs. As for me, I have CDs which I burned 7 or 8 years ago on a cheap machine (it was Gateway, so it must've been cheap) which are still good. Haven't tried the TY media but learned early on not to go for the bargain-basement house brands. Made a lot of nice coasters that way.
In my other life, I resurface CDs and DVDs that uncaring people have scratched, gouged, and driven over. So I know the biggest factor in longevity is the care and storage given the media. People don't understand that the label side of the disc is, by far, the most vulnerable to damage. And even pressure from a fingernail is enough to put a dent in the reflective layer and deflect the laser, thus making some data unreadable. Pre-recorded discs start out as a clear disc which has the data pressed into it. This is followed by spraying on the reflective layer, gold, aluminum or even platinum. This layer is only a few microns thick. Then the label is printed over that. So there are only a relatively few microns between the data and potential damage. This is why libraries sometimes apply a clear vinyl protective layer. These are made for this purpose and will not degrade the disc. I also use them on my own DVDs and have yet to see any signs of the adhesive loosening or any other adverse effects.
its a question
by larry1638 - 2/14/09 11:03 AM In reply to: Do burned CDs and DVDs have a shelf life? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
I have found that even the older floppies can be read I have an orrigional autosketch that still reads as well as Autocad rel 11
now this is dos
that means some files are still good but would not recomend it
just curious
Larry
flash drives
by susie-sheahan - 2/14/09 11:57 AM In reply to: Do burned CDs and DVDs have a shelf life? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
I don't even bother using disks. I back up my photos and files on various flash drives. Does anyone know the shelf life of a flash drive/memory stick?
CD/DVD lifespan shootouts or tests?
by cytherian - 2/14/09 12:01 PM In reply to: Do burned CDs and DVDs have a shelf life? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
I would really like to see some kind of tests done for popular brand name optical media. Just like there are shootouts on hardware and software, so should there be something about optical media. Has there already been something done? If so, please link to it in the first posting so all can see. I think it would be of interest.
I have experienced CD failure, more often on no-name brands. A while back, I bought a few spindles of inexpensive CD media at a "bargain" price. Well, it was not a bargain in the long run. The "foil" layer on the CD eventually began to flake off. And of course, this made the media completely unusable. Brand name is important, but I have to believe not all of them are created equal.
Scratches on CD media will of course affect the ability of the drive to read it. However, scratches can be cleaned off with special kits. They do work! But of course, after recovering the disk, the logical thing is to make a backup of it (if you don't have the original source for what you used to create the CD).
A WARNING about "black" CD media: Memorex has oroduced some black CD media for a while, a rather striking look to the usual flashy rainbow colored CD media. Well, those black CD's are not very reliable. I've experienced them developing bad spots over time. I often burn audio CD's for my car, different mixes that I'm inspired to create on the fly. I do not leave them in the car to be exposed to the extreme temperature changes. However, I've had more of these black CDs end up with "dead" songs (the player gets stuck--have to eject the CD and then intentionally skip over the bad song before it is reached). Never had that happen with other CD's. Do not use them for archival purposes.
scratches
by antiquefart - 2/14/09 2:25 PM In reply to: CD/DVD lifespan shootouts or tests? by cytherian"Scratches can be cleaned off with special kits"? There's nothing very special about a bit of Brasso and a clean cotton rag.
And even though car CD players are supposed to built more sturdily (the better ones, that is) than cheapo home portable players, any disc--whether factory-pressed or home-burned--that you're playing in an environment subject to vibration or bumping should be regarded as a throwaway, for temporary use only.
Actually, we're talking about several different aspects of data integrity on optical media. First there's the question of whether what's written to disc is exactly accurate--this is a function of the quality of the burner drive and writing software, use of data compression or not, quality of blank discs, user care in handling, removing dust specks, etc, and post-writing verification. Next there are issues of care in the handling, use, and storage of the discs--exposure to light, heat (including playback laser degradation), humidity, fingerprints, scratches, dust and grime, etc. Finally, the question raised in the OP seemed to assume accuracy in transcription and care in handling and storage, and given these, what is a reasonable life expectancy of a physical writable disc and the data encoded in its dye layer? To which there appears so far to be little agreement here.
CD Eating Fungus reported by BBC news
by wmsgordon - 2/14/09 12:48 PM In reply to: Do burned CDs and DVDs have a shelf life? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
A geologist at the Museum of Natural History in Madrid discovered a fungus which eats CD's The fungus belongs to the common Geotrichum family, on CDs brought back from the central American state of Belize.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/1402533.stm
Marc Valls, a biologist at Spain's National Centre for Biotechnology, warned people not to be alarmed. He said the fungus would only attack CDs under certain conditions.
"Even though this fungus is widespread it could only develop on a CD in high humidity and high temperature, which is not the case most of the time," Mr Valls told the BBC.
cd longevity
by JOHN A. JOHNSON - 2/14/09 2:15 PM In reply to: Do burned CDs and DVDs have a shelf life? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
I have had Imation cds fail after a short time. I once bought a package of 100 Sony cds and returned them to the store after having 8 burn failures in the first 14 cds I used. I have had Sony cds go bad in my house after a year or so. I have Fufi cds that have been in one of the holders that are attached to the visor in my car for three or four years with all of the heat, cold and humidity that still play well. When I do something that I really worry about, I use Mam-A gold cds which are comparitively expensive. For other long term storage I use Fuji. For everyday usage my first choice is TDK and my last resort is Memorex.
Just a suggestion... :)
by Soundtrackfreak - 2/14/09 4:55 PM In reply to: Do burned CDs and DVDs have a shelf life? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
I suggest storing the CDs/DVDs in some kind of air-tight vacuum-sealed container... Like the ones used for storing vegetables in the kitchen?
My kitchen anyway... Lol
And of course the usual, keep `em out of sunlight, heat, etc.
Hope this helps 
1998 discs are fine
by peter hindrup - 2/14/09 9:18 PM In reply to: Do burned CDs and DVDs have a shelf life? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
Claiming no expertise on this issue, I have just checked reports that I did in 1998 on gold coloured media, and they are working flawlessly.
Have a purple disc from 2003 and it too, is working fine.
Media has been stored in an aluminium ‘briefcase’, stored in a house and later in a commercial building, in New South Wales, Australia.
Do I transfer what I want to keep to new discs? I have no idea, but will look at when I get some time! :-))
11 years in cars
by AHD42 - 2/15/09 1:47 AM In reply to: 1998 discs are fine by peter hindrupI've also got my first 1998 audio disk running without any problems in my various cars. It also has a paper label on top of it and only left the car after i bought a new one 
On the other hand i have some bad experiences with cds/dvds which came in spindles. Imagine the transport and the possible rotation of the disks...
For my really important data, i use a triple backup. One master, which resides in a bank save. a backup one for this, and the one i work/play with...
Alex.
RAID SYSTEM alternative option !!!
by LORRAKEET - 2/15/09 1:32 AM In reply to: Do burned CDs and DVDs have a shelf life? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
The problem could be solved by getting your P.C set-up with a RAID system . Similar to a car with a spare tire . Hopefully this is an effective allernative option to dvd's / cd's . I've got 2 terabyte drives in my P.C for plenty of room .if I get a hard drive failure then I have a backup that is immediate and effective .
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