Storage: Do burned CDs and DVDs have a shelf life?
- 2/13/09 2:55 PM
It's a 5 year mission...
by Impreza WRX - 2/1/09 9:22 PM In reply to: Do burned CDs and DVDs have a shelf life? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
Yes, consumer burned CDs have a lifespan. Unlike manufactured CDs, which are stamped, consumer CDs burn data onto a dye. Over time, this dye degrades. After about 5 years, they will start degrading, and you will lose your information. It is advisable to reburn your data every few years, onto a higher capacity format, so you don't end up like me, with an enormous book of discs because I was too lazy to burn DVDs of the stuff.
Yes, there is a difference in quality between brands. Memorex discs, for example, tend to fail sooner and burn improperly more frequently than other brands. Some high quality CDs or DVDs can last longer than 5 years before degrading.
Shelf life of CDs
by jelmain - 2/2/09 1:12 AM In reply to: Do burned CDs and DVDs have a shelf life? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
Any data storage has a shelf-life - I'm an archive researcher handling mediaeval parchments, and whilst the substrate is fine, you'd be amazed how dirty my white gloves get by the end of the day from the ink falling away. Now, most of those documents haven't been accessed in fifty years or more, so it's not a problem, but it could be in another thousand years' time.
As regards CDs, they're burned in by light. Natural sunlight and office lighting isn't strong enough to have any serious effect inthe short-term, but in the longer term (5 years +) there is some degradation if left in the open. Writable CDs are worse, which is why the backs of the cases are normally black and they're preferably kept in closed cabinets. That being said, however, these are the original lifetime indications, recent studies suggest the lifetime may be significantly longer in practice, and quality CDs should last longer than cheap ones - see the manufacturers' recommendations on the original box.
However, that's not the only problem: more serious is the risk of format creep. How many of you still have a 5.25" drive? I do, but that's because I go back to the Ark. Similarly, how many of you have data accessed in .pdx format? Paradox won't run on some modern machines, yet was in common use a mere ten years ago. Similarly with SuperCalc .sc5, and a whole host of other ancient artefacts. Except when you need to know why something was done many moons ago, then you have problems.
Probably the most dangerous instance of this is the digitalisation of property titles. The public registrars are only keeping the current state-of-play in many instances, but old liens and conditions often aren't recorded there and the old paper-based systems remain invaluable. I'm currently involved in a case where the heirs to an estate want to do something which was specifically forbidden in the original transfer of title in the 1920s. They were encouraged into the activity by the absence of any mention of such an interdiction in the current documentation, and the result will be huge legal costs all round.
So think before you digitise.
Burned CDs/DVDs - shelf life
by qark - 2/2/09 4:23 AM In reply to: Do burned CDs and DVDs have a shelf life? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
I heard (about 10 years ago) that burned CDs/DVDs have a shelf life of 20 years. However, as burned CDs/DVDs had not been around for 20 years at that time (I'm not sure if they have been around that long even now) I do not see how anyone can say - it must at best have been an estimate based on accelerated aging tests. Even if such tests did give some sort of reliable evidence, the quoted shelf life would probably incorporate a safety factor of at least 2 so I would guess that if stored in dust free conditions at between 10-25C they will probably last for at least 40 years. I have CDs that were burned well over 10 years ago that show no sign of deterioration whatsoever and reckon that the odds of them being good for 40 years must be at least 5-1 on.
Do burned CDs and DVDs have a shelf life?
by KHAIMANG - 2/2/09 5:43 AM In reply to: Do burned CDs and DVDs have a shelf life? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
Hi Michael:
Actually, backups to CDs/DVDs are among the most stable and reliable methods for preserving your valuable data. However, the main thing to remember is to keep these discs in a safe place (sleeves); free from scratches, oily fingerprints, excessive heat, and most importantly, direct sunlight! Personally, I have data backups to discs dating back to the mid-nineties, and can still retrieve photos or documents without a problem. Some reports state that if the above rules are followed, the estimated shelf-life can be as long as 50 years! Bottom line Michael? Your friend is giving out incorrect information regarding this issue.
Shelf life for CDs
by pllam - 2/2/09 6:01 AM In reply to: Do burned CDs and DVDs have a shelf life? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
I had this discussion with some folks in GB a few years back and their research says yes there is a shelf life. Here is the deal, Cheap CDs and DVDs are cheap, they will not last on the shelf. A high quality CD/DVD will last a considerable amount of time, how long? That is just a guess for now but the thinking is that the media will become obsolete long before the CDs become coasters.
cd`s and dvd`s shelf life
by 3116t - 2/2/09 6:21 AM In reply to: Do burned CDs and DVDs have a shelf life? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
Michael: Personally my experience with this storage method is not good. I don`t know if this is because quality disc or brand dvd, or method (software dvd burning). If you don`t have problems with that method I would suggest you buy the better quality discs of type RWR of a good brand. (rewritable, in my opinion this type of disk is more durability and better quality than normal discs, and the price is similar to normal discs).
Thanks.
3116t
Yes! But mostly dependent on WHERE you store them.
by roland827 - 2/2/09 7:38 AM In reply to: Do burned CDs and DVDs have a shelf life? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
Humidity, heat, moisture, etc. these are factors to consider for CD/DVD long term storage. Constantly using the CD is also a factor for wear and tear. Although technically CDs are supposed to be a long term archiving option, some CDs aren't meant for long term use. Some of them do deteriorate from exposure to moisture, can attract molds, or at one point, I have observed, a rust like appearance. It also depends on how the build quality of the CDs are, but from my experience,even the more expensive ones don't last either.
Warped CDs are also common, especialy if you store them in CD sleeves inside a leather CD case.
The most effective storage would be in a vaccuum-like environment (to ensure that no moisture or other elements can reach it) or just put them in a CD Spindle together with a bunch of other CDs (the outer CDs that are exposed to air would probably not last though).
I have had been usings CDs for more than 20 years now, and I found that the only ones that usually survived were my old CDs that were stored in a stacked position on the original spindle that came with my blank CDs. Those placed in CD holders or CD cases, probably 50% of them wound up in the garbage (after I took what I can read from the contents)...
CD and DVD shelf life
by jhauprich - 2/2/09 7:50 AM In reply to: Do burned CDs and DVDs have a shelf life? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
As with all media, shelf life is more of an environmental issue than anything. In a perfect world (no light, no heat, vacuum) CDs and DVD will last longer than you will. However, our world isn't perfect, and as such if you use good common sense and good habits, your DVDs and CDs will outlast your needs. Cool, Dry, Dark and protected is the key. Use jewel cases and store upright, not flat to avoid stacking. Avoid storing with any chemicals that might break down the plastics in the discs. You need not be paranoid, but if so make 2 copies and store them separately.
Do burned CDs and DVDs have a shelf life?
by Jean-Pierre Laliberté - 2/2/09 8:24 AM In reply to: Do burned CDs and DVDs have a shelf life? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
http://www.pcastuces.com/pratique/windows/fiches/duree_vie_cd_dvd.htm
Paranoia with a hint of truth
by daeby - 2/2/09 9:42 AM In reply to: Do burned CDs and DVDs have a shelf life? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
I first saw this in CNET Community Newsletter: Q&A forum 1/27/06. My experience does not support the statement "Some of the better-quality discs offer a longer life span, of a maximum of five years." There are various grades of recordable discs. We use commercial grade, name brand CDs for production CD burning (because volume doesn't justify the start-up cost for pressing them.) I use only quality, highly rated name brand drives and media for personal use.
Your CD/DVD burner contain a small Flash memory, used to store a table of parameters for identifying and burning various discs. Parameters vary due to different dyes and other factors. You may get better results if you update the drives. If a drive doesn't recognize your exact blank media, it may use best match or generic settings.
The rather paranoid Computerworld article link is still alive, at:
http://computerworld.com/hardwaretopics/storage/story/0,10801,107607,00.html
The very short version:
"Burned" CDs and DVDs don't have the uniform high life expectancy of pressed discs.
Some blank disks are better than others. Some burners are better than others. Heat over time can change the dye enough to cause some read errors.
Writer John Blau reports that Kurt Gerecke, a physicist and storage expert at IBM Deutschland GmbH recommends magnetic tape over optical disks and hard drives for long-term storage.
Personally, if something is that critical, I back it up in more than one physical location and on more than one media type.
Short answer.... Yes!
by jazacoop - 2/2/09 12:24 PM In reply to: Do burned CDs and DVDs have a shelf life? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
Hi Michael,
This particular topic is actually a very contentious. Let me state straight out that there are many schools of thought as to how long a disc lasts, but the fact of the matter is that it will eventually fail. No form of storage commercially available is capable of storing your data inevitably.
I've noticed that many people have been discussing and questioning the difference between commercial discs (such as movies and CD's) and discs which you burn at home. Let's tackle this question initially by looking at the difference between the two. It should help explain why these discs are far more likely to last longer than the discs which you burn at home.
How are the discs burnt?
The movies and CD's you buy at shops are created using a completely different process to that of a typical burner. To put it simply, the plastic in the disc is heated to the point where it is malleable and then a metal template is quite literally stamped into that plastic creating tiny grooves which represent the data. The discs are then coated in a very fine layer of metal which acts as a reflective surface on the base of the disc, which the laser in a player can bounce the beam off in order to retrieve the data. It also acts as a protective layer, which prevents the data on the disc from being damaged by scratches. So in summary, the data is quite literally etched into the disc.
Technology like this was not feasible for consumers, so manufacturers started looking for an alternate method of writing data to a disc. The result was the CD burner we all know today. The primary difference between a burner and a commercial disc replicator (the method I described above) is that the data is not etched into the disc, but rather printed. CD burners work by heating a layer of transparent dye inside the disc. The dye responds by darkening (i.e. no longer being transparent). The laser in a burner is so precise that it can burn the dye in the disc in a specific sequence, hence creating the data that you wish to store on the disc.
Why is this a problem?
The problem with this process is that over time, ink starts to breakdown and fade. It's kind of like opening a book that was published 50+ years ago and looking at how much the text has faded on the page as a result of the ink beginning to degrade.
What does all this mean?
Basically it means that any disc you burn will eventually become corrupted and unreadable, as the ink in the disc will inevitably degrade. Even commercial discs will eventually fail as nothing lasts forever.
So how long will a disc last?
The truth is that it depends on a number of factors. Anyone who tries to give you an actual life in years is just speculating. The life of a disc depends on a number of factors. Some of these include the quality of the materials used to create the discs, the quality of the manufacturing process, how well the disc was burnt (i.e. if your CD burner's laser is dirty, then the recording won't be as clean as say a brand new laser), the speed as which the disc was burnt (higher speeds lead to degraded quality in the burning process), the amount of data on the disc as well as how the disc is handled and stored. Things such as heat and moisture will inevitably degrade the life of a disc or oil from finger prints on the disc will also degrade it faster.
In my opinion:
Arbitrarily, I wouldn't trust most discs burnt with a CD/DVD burner beyond 5 years, although the data will more than likely last well beyond that if the disc is stored in a safe manner (more on that soon).
So what can you do?
As I mentioned, there are different qualities when it comes to discs. For example, the ones that you buy in a 50 pack aren't exactly of the highest quality, and can't be expected to last for an extended period of time. A general rule of thumb is the more you pay for the disc, the higher the quality and the longer it is likely to last. If you're looking for long life discs, go down to your local major retailer and ask them what they've got. Many discs which boast a long life tend to be gold plated. They'll probably claim to hold your data in excess of 100 years, but none of these figures have actually been properly tested (I mean, how could they?) Disc manufacturers use all kind of different tests to rate their discs (some of them being quite questionable)and as a result, the life they print realistically isn't worth the paper its printed on.
What do I recommend?
If you're looking to backup precious data, then I'd recommend the following:
* Purchase long life gold plated discs
* Make sure the laser in your burner is clean (you can pick up disc cleaning kits from your local retailer)
* Burn the disc at a slow speed
* Store the disc facing down (not on its side) in a cool dry place (warm and moist = mold). I'd suggest no more than 50% humidity and 20 degrees Celsius (68 deg Fahrenheit).
* If you're going to write on the disc, use a non-solvent based marker.
* And most importantly.... MAKE MORE THAN 1 COPY... Store important data on more than 1 medium if possible (e.g. external backup drive and long life disc)
Hopefully this has enlightened you and has given you some tips on how to safely store your data 
Jaz.
DVD Life
by Kevin0563 - 2/2/09 1:13 PM In reply to: Do burned CDs and DVDs have a shelf life? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
I actually had the same paranoia regarding DVD life. I bought a set-top DVD recorder in early 2003 (one of the first ones that was marketed) and started converting my old VHS tapes to DVD. I was reading the same dire stories that the shelf life of recordable DVD's was nowhere near as long as first imagined. So last year, I selected about 100 of my recorded DVDs at random and played them in my regular DVD player (which does not have recording capabilities). I had no problems with any of the disks; they played like they did when they were created.
I've actually debated making copies of my disks to be safe, but I estimate I have about 700 disks and have probably pulled out maybe 20 over the years to actually watch, so I've decided I'll take my chances with what I have.
Just Like LP's
by grumpyfalcon - 2/2/09 4:07 PM In reply to: Do burned CDs and DVDs have a shelf life? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
Just like LP's, the ancient version of CDs, as long as you take good care of them, the data will always be available to you. I have not yet lost data from any of my music CDs and some of them are over ten years old. Hope this helps.
CD-DVD media as BACK-UP
by ALBERTO R. GANYTUANGCO - 2/2/09 6:51 PM In reply to: Do burned CDs and DVDs have a shelf life? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
Yes its true that CD and DVD media are not reliable back-up. . The reason for this is that molds in the course of time will begin to destroy your disc. If you have time, you just wipe your disc frequently so that molds will not set in. Or to make sure that you have a reliable back-up, shell out a few dollars more, buy a portable hard drive. . .ok
Review for You
by Hforman - 2/2/09 7:33 PM In reply to: Do burned CDs and DVDs have a shelf life? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
Michael, so far, you have seen a wide range of responses on the lifespan of CDs and DVDs. It must be very confusing to you. Many of us have read the articles that appear on CDs and DVDs that state that the expectancy of these media are five (5) years. While we recognize that, with excellent care, your CD/DVD may last longer, it may not even last that long. Some of the answers here do not differentiate between media that came with software and/or muisic and media that they burned themselves. Others think the lifespan is ten (10) years. Others swear they made a CD/DVD 20+ years ago. Possible. One person claims to have made a CD 50+ years ago.
If we look at our calendar, 50 years ago was 1959. I was 9 years old, but I can tell you that there were no personal computers back then and no "home" CD/DVD burners. Maybe the person was confusing this with magneto-optical which claims a shelf-life of 100 years but that is a different technology. Sorry, but home burning of even CDs was not invented a long, long time ago. Nor was the PC. Nor was the World Wide Web (WWW). Back in 1968 we had rotating drum storage, disk storage and exotic storage such as data cells on our mainframe computers. No CDs. So, please take with a grain of salt those of us who cannot remember what year they "burned" their first CD.
So what is the date that a CD-ROM existed in the first place? I'm not 100% sure. When you've lived this long, you forget minor details but I think it was around 1982. That means that, the earliest CD that you could hold in your hand was made than 27 years ago. That was also long before you could BURN one yourself. Philips came up with the specification for the CD-R (or CDWO: compact disc write-once) in 1988. So, yes, someone could be correct in saying that they made a CD 20 years ago, but just barely.
There are plenty of documents on the web that explain the differences between the music/software CDs that you buy already produced (CD-ROM) and the ones you burn yourself. The Internet is a great place to get information.
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