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Laptop buying advice : Advice needed to make a tough laptop-buying choice
Advice needed to make a tough laptop-buying choice
by longtalker - 1/13/09 9:12 AMHello everybody,
After a long day of comparing, I managed to shortlist three laptop models, however it's tough to make a choice between them, since each has stuff the others don't - and to have it all in one machine would mean paying more than I am able to.
First of all, what I would mainly be using the laptop for would be
- regular Internet activity (browsing, video chatting, etc)
- office applications
- picture editing (Photoshop, Panorama Tools)
- movie editing (Adobe Premiere Pro) and watching
- math software (Matlab, SPSS)
- the occasional Flight Simulator X
Without much ado, the three finalists are:
1. Dell Inspiron 1525, basic specs below, more at http://www.emag.ro/notebook_laptop/notebook-dell-inspiron-1525-core2-duo-t8300-240ghz-3gb-250gb-alb--pW018D-271516945-271530431-271556516W
-> CPU: Core 2 Duo T8300 2.4 GHz (3 MB cache)
-> RAM: 3 GB
-> HDD: 250 GB
-> GFX: Intel GMA X3100
-> price: €677, discounted -25% from €902
2. Acer AS5930G-734G32Mn, basic specs below, more at http://www.emag.ro/notebook_laptop/notebook-acer-as5930g-734g32mn-core2-duo-p7350-4gb-320gb-linux--pLX.AQ30C.005
-> CPU: Core 2 Duo P7350, 2.0 GHz (3 MB cache)
-> RAM: 4 GB
-> HDD: 320 GB
-> GFX: Nvidia 9600M GT
-> price: €834
3. MSI EX620X-043EU, basic specs below, more at http://www.emag.ro/notebook_laptop/notebook-msi-ex620x-043eu-intel-core2-duo-p7350-20ghz-2x2gb-320gb-blu-ray-negru--pEX620X-043EU
-> CPU: Core 2 Duo P7350, 2.0 GHz (3 MB cache)
-> RAM: 4 GB
-> HDD: 320 GB
-> GFX: ATI Radeon HD 3470
-> price: €787
What I want most is for the laptop to be able to run several applications simultaneously (including resource hogs Matlab and Photoshop) and still offer a good response time and not become sluggish. I believe the CPU and amount of RAM are the most important here, and unfortunately there is no one laptop that excels in both; also, they are sold as they are and cannot be custom-configured.
As I see it, the pros and cons of each – as infered from specs&reviews – are as follows (in order of their importance):
1. the Dell
+ fastest CPU of the lot
+ according to reviews, battery lasts quite well
+ only one that has S-video output
- considerably noisier than average under high load (not looking forward to this, since my old laptop's fan drove me crazy with its periodic whining)
- HDD of only 250 GB (could really use a bigger one..)
- only 3 GB of RAM
- rather weak video card, although I'm not sure I would know, given my needs
2. the Acer
+ apparently fan is remarkably quiet, even under high load
+ good amount of RAM and HDD space
+ has Dolby Surround sound, confirmed to be good by reviews
+ has mechanical volume knob, which I find very convenient as opposed to using Fn+arrows
+ very good video card, although again, probably overkill given my non-gaming needs
- slower CPU than the Dell
- only has 1 year warranty, as opposed to 3 years (Dell) and 2 years (MSI)
3. the MSI
+good amount of RAM and HDD space
+ 16" screen (a bit bigger than the others' 15"4, yet small enough to fit into a 15.4" backpack)
+ has numerical keypad
- slower CPU than the Dell
- can't really find any reviews (a bit suspicious) => can't know how long battery really lasts
- has Dolby Surround sound but the one review I found says it's less than impressive
I know there are a lot of factors to consider – this is why the confusion drove me here looking for your advice, which I am very much looking forward to receiving – anticipated thanks!
The Dell looks to be a non-contender.
by R. Proffitt
- 1/13/09 9:43 AM
In reply to: Advice needed to make a tough laptop-buying choice by longtalker
While I'd like it as a 'laptop' and not as a 'game machine' your goals are a little mixed. My bet is the Dell would make a fine laptop.
Why not do that and for the gaming let that run on some cheap desktop with a card from this list? -> http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/radeon-geforce-graphics,2086.html
Since flight simulation is the only item that would tap the GPU, why not get the laptop for what it is and not fall into the trap of gaming laptops with overheating machines, low battery times and such?
Bob
Re: answer
by longtalker - 1/13/09 10:37 AM In reply to: The Dell looks to be a non-contender. by R. Proffitt
Hey, thanks for your reply.
The Flight Sim I could very well give up, in which case the GFX probably becomes less of a factor. The main advantage of the Dell would then be its CPU: the T8300 seems to score higher in the benchmarks than the P7350, although I'm not sure exactly to what degree I would notice a difference. I tend to think Acer's extra 1 GB of RAM would make things run smoother than having a bit more processing power - but I might be dead wrong!
The other advantage of the Dell would be its brand name, which I tend not to place much importance on, since I know Acers are becoming better. It's the performance that I'm concerned with, and since the inside components are the same, I'm prepared to overlook minor imperfections that may be associated with a lesser brand such as Acer.
So even completely ignoring any gaming needs (which I'm more than ready to do), it looks to me as if the Dell hasn't got much on the Acer, except for fan noise, which I could very well do without.
I'm not trying to counter your arguments, just to re-weigh all the factors and to decide on the better one. Once again, thanks for helping out.
Its either MSI or Acer. No Dell here.
by mi_mi_mi - 1/28/09 2:23 PM In reply to: Re: answer by longtalkersalut frate
ive been looking at the same laptops 
Dell's T8300 is probably just a bit faster than P7350
and thats because it has higher frequency (2.4Ghz vs 2.0Ghz)
but the P7350 has the BUS at 1066Mhz vs 800Mhz.
both have 3MB of L2 cache.
to put it into perspective,
the P7350 is at the bottom of the Power Optimized Performance line of intel mobile CPUs.
while T8300 is somehow on the top of the Standard Voltage line.
in theory P should be superior, but because its a top T, then they might be very close performance wise.
The Dell's fault is the gfx card: Intel GMA X3100
Thats a big no if you want to run games. It will probably run randomly older games but generally, most of the titles do not support intel gfx. period. also, im willing to bet that a dedicated ati or nvidia card is also faster in 2D mode. Also, the Dell is expensive, 700RON more expensive than MSI. But it will be a sturdy, ugly laptop that will last for 5 years. ive seen 8year old dells running just fine.
the MSI, has (unlike dell) bluetooth, blu-ray drive and eSata connector. eSata is very important. you could buy a 500GB eSata external HDD and hook it up to the laptop only when you are at home. install a 2nd OS and dual boot from the eSata. you will get desktop-level HDD performance that will make the entire system snappier. hdds in laptops are way slower than hdds in desktops. and because the hdd is the slowest component in the laptop, the entire machine waits for it. eSata gives you an external interface thats way superior than USB 2. remember this option.
the ATI HD 3470 256MB is a decent option for what you need.
although the 16" screen is a bit odd, and the resolution 1366 x 768 is a bit awkward. msi is also ugly and very plastic from my experience. it might not last as long as dell but it is clearly cheaper and with better features.
one thing regarding RAM size. 3GB vs. 4GB
if you're using a 32bit OS, then the maximum memory available for
the OS is somewhere around 3.2GB. actually, on 32bit computing no process can allocate more than 3GB of RAM. its in the bits and bytes.
basically 3GB or 4GB is the same in your case.
if you plan on installing a 64bit OS (XP 64bit or Vista 64) then 4GB of RAM is not enough You need a recommended 6GB. Better 8GB. thats because the memory footprint of each app increases as instructions are represented on double the number of bits. so, the same application running on a 32bit OS will use less RAM than on a 64bit OS. I wouldnt install a 64bit OS on a 4GB RAM laptop and try to Premiere things around
Now, the Acer, certainly looks better than the competition.
It also has eSATA and it also supports S-PDIF output which is good if you have a home-cinema system at home. and the strongest point is that it has a nVidia 9600M GT. which is faster than MSI's ATI.
but i only experienced very cheap Acer's, never one around this price.
It might be better.
To conclude this long story.
What I would decide:
- dell is too expensive for what it offers. it only offers a long life, but in 2-3 years it will be obsolete anyways.and intel gfx is NO NO.
- msi vs acer... i would decide only hands on. i need to feel the laptop with my own hands. it might be 1 min decision in real life than just comparing specs.
im thinking buy msi and use the rest of the money to buy an external eSATA hdd.
or buy the Acer and with the rest of the money buy a cheap eSATA enclosure and a cheaper SATA HDD and make it yourself.
also, here is cheaper
https://www.vexio.ro/notebook-msi-ex620x-043eu-intel-core2-duo-p7350-2.0ghz-4gb-320gb_P3894
and Vexio seems to be a new company with lovely website and web awards set out to dethrone emag.
and on 2nd thought
by mi_mi_mi - 1/28/09 2:25 PM In reply to: Its either MSI or Acer. No Dell here. by mi_mi_miif you like the looks of the Acer and you plan on having higher FPS in games, ditch the MSI and buy the Acer.
raspunsul meu
by longtalker - 1/28/09 10:25 PM In reply to: and on 2nd thought by mi_mi_mihey mi_mi_mi
I guess since this is an English forum and I couldn't find a way to PM you, I'll just continue writing to you in English too
Thanks for your detailed analysis! It proved helpful just reading through it and getting a better idea of what I should want - even though, if you can believe it, I still haven't bought a laptop, and as a matter of fact I've "disqualified" all of those three that I posted about, because I realised a silent fan and good sound are important to me (Dell and MSI out!), and the Acer I've seen face-to-face and just didn't do it for me. It's always better not to rush into buying something that expensive, and since for the moment I can do with my old one, I decided to wait until either proces go down or until my cousin comes back from the USA
This is what I wanted to ask you about: do you think it's a good idea to get a lpaotp from America, given that prices don't seem to be that much lower that in Romania anymore, and that international warranty may be an issue? I've called Dell and Toshiba and they both assured me I would get my warranty here too. However, I'd still prefer to get it from here, if only there were a bigger variety of models you can find..
By the way, have *you* decided on one of those three yet?
In addition to the silence & speakers issue mentioned, I realised I have very specific tastes in other parts of the laptop too, which make it very hard for me to really like a model FOr example, I really want multimedia buttons, to not have to go into Winamp every time but simply press a dedicated button.. I want an old-fashioned knob to control my volume (that only Toshiba seems to offer, but that seems to be very ineffective in models such as the A300). I very much want a good battery life, and last but not least I would like a MATTE - not glossy - screen! Although this last one I've almost given up on after being laughed in the face a couple of times for requesting it Apparently it's out of style or something, the reason for which I find simply beyond understanding.
After doing an extensive search on the American online market, I don't find myself spoilt with choice there either. The only two models that meet my criteria (really meet them! not like those three I wrote about 2 weeks ago :-p ) - well except for the glossy screen - are the new Dell XPS Studio 16 and the TOshiba A300-ST3512. Again, each have their problems, namely: the Dell has the awkward screen size you mentioned (1300x768 or something - is that really so irritating to look at?) and poorer speakers than the Toshiba (although still not bad at all!), while the Toshiba has weak battery life and a slower CPU.
Finally, to throw one more variable in there, I was thinking that, since I am probalyincreasingly be working on my aptop rather than on my desktop, I might as well get a screen of a decent size, so I figured why not go for a 17"-er? I don't mind the +0.5 kg or so, and the extra size I don't think i'll have a problem with either (certainly not when editing with Photoshop! :o)
Ok, there you go.. and you thought your post was long :-p PLease if you can get back to me on my email, my address is the same as my username here, at gmail dot com.
Thanks, looking forward to hear from you!
PS: is having an attached eSATA HDD as fast as having a laptop with a really fast drive? Like a 7200 rpm, or a solid state, or how fast exactly??
no probs, maybe ppl will find this discussion useful
by mi_mi_mi - 1/29/09 4:18 AM In reply to: raspunsul meu by longtalker- buying from USA is still a good option if you're buying something on the high end. that is laptops > $1200, digital SLRs, powerful video cards, top of the line CPUs or a 2TB HDD. if you buy something cheap thats being sold en masse in .RO the price difference is negligeable ($50 or so) so its not worth it. your cousin can ship a package at around $40 or $50 bucks. just make sure the receipt and maybe the original packaging is not included in the box. that way you can say its a gift and you wont pay taxes. he can send the receipt in a separate envelope by regular snail mail. but it all depends on how nice are the tax ppl in your city. eventually you can throw some "shpaga".
- regarding warranty: big companies that have offices in .RO will offer you international warranty, thats true. And even if your warranty has expired, at least you can pay and fix it at their headquarters, which is desirable. Yes, Toshiba and Dell both have official offices in .RO so its good to buy from them. Im not sure of MSI, but Im willing to bet they have offices here too. Either way, for example Packard Bell doesnt have, so dont buy from them.
- the way i usually do it: go to www.newegg.com and browse for laptops, you have filters there so you can sort the results by "most reviews" and "best reviews". take a laptop that has tens or hundreds of reviews at around 4 to 5 eggs (stars). read the reviews. in half an hour you'll know everything there is to know about that laptop from the ppl who actually own it.
then try to find the same laptop on emag or vexio. problem is the models are slightly different for EU and US. but you should be able to find a match at least. same chassis, same CPU, etc.
i bought like that an HDD, CPU, video card from US, each over 150$-200$ and i have no regrets. user reviews are the best on newegg.com
- no, the awkward resolution is not irritating to look at. in some cases, video games will prefer a resolution other than that. thats the only problem. however the video card will support higher resolutions than that. for example when using the HDMI to connect to a HD TV set. but its nice to have something like true, native 1080p HD. thats 1920 x 1080 for a 17" laptop.
- if you're doing Photoshop and Premiere, you need as much screen estate as possible, so take that into consideration when choosing the laptop.
- sure, get a 17" for a desktop replacement. just remember, the bigger the screen the more powerful the CPU & GFX card needs to be in order to update the extra pixels. so given the same CPU & GFX card, a 15" laptop will feel snappier than a 17" laptop.
- i hate glossy too. its no good if you're doing professional GFX and Im a web&graphic designer.
- you wont be able to find a laptop that kicks a$$ in every category. just figure out what are the most important 3 things for you and choose accordingly.
- regarding battery, the life is very approx. but generally it should be something like this
* 4cell battery - 1.5h (of heavy load) to 2h for conservative usage
these are usually found in cheap laptops ($600) and netbooks. a netbook will last longer with 4cell because of the low cpu voltage & freq.
* 6cell battery - 2h - 2.5h ( laptops of around 800-1000$)
* 9cell battery >3h maybe sometimes close to 4h.
keep in mind, these are very approx. as they are based on my hands-on experience with several models.
Also keep in mind that the weight of the 9cell battery is considerably bigger than the one of a 6cell. you could end up with a 4.3kg 17" laptop and thats heavy bro. i mean its heavy to pull
- i added you on gmail. im mimimi at the same domain
TO SUMMARIZE:
- study laptops with loads of positive reviews on newegg.com thats my best advice.
forgot about eSata
by mi_mi_mi - 1/29/09 4:35 AM In reply to: no probs, maybe ppl will find this discussion useful by mi_mi_mieSata performance is virtually the same as an internal SATA disk.
that means instead of having an internal 5400rpm 250GB HDD with probably 4-8MB of cache, you will use something like 7200rpm 500GB HDD with 16MB of cache, or even 32MB of cache if you buy and enterprise class HDD.
in real word, your regular laptop HDD might hit something like 25-30-40MB/sec average transfer rate, while a decent desktop HDD will hit double of that. 50-60-70MB/sec. if you also consider the access time, i would say a decent HDD on eSATA will be 3X faster than your laptop. and that you'll feel. you'll boot faster with 10-15 sec, applications will start faster, you will hear less crunching and have more responsiveness when copying files. it will be a different computer.
if you plan on replacing the internal laptop HDD check out the Scorpio line from Western Digital. a bit expensive but serious performance. still, i wouldnt ditch the 2nd OS on eSATA for working video and photosohp at home.
from Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_ATA#External_SATA
"Aimed at the consumer market, eSATA enters an external storage market already served by the USB and FireWire interfaces. Most external hard-disk-drive cases with FireWire or USB interfaces use either PATA or SATA drives and "bridges" to translate between the drives' interfaces and the enclosures' external ports, and this bridging incurs some inefficiency. Some single disks can transfer almost 120 MB/s during real use, more than twice the maximum transfer rate of USB 2.0 or FireWire 400 (IEEE 1394a) and well in excess of the maximum transfer rate of FireWire 800, though the S3200 FireWire 1394b spec reaches ~400 MB/s (3.2 Gbit/s). Finally, some low-level drive features, such as S.M.A.R.T., may not operate through USB or FireWire bridging. eSATA does not suffer from these issues."
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