TV with DVR & Internet: $84.90/mo
Community Newsletter: Q&A: Please clarify the digital TV (DTV) transition in 2009
- 5/16/08 3:56 PM
Remote Question
by cappykelly - 1/18/09 10:50 PM In reply to: Digital converters and VCRs by gmclamUh, if you have multiple converter boxes, does that mean you're going to have multiple remotes? And will you need yet another remote for the TV and or VCR/DVD?
Sounds like a whole table full of remotes ;-(
I just found (tah dah!) the booklet for my VCR.. sony slv-n71. It apparently has a cable box control, tho it says you need to buy a cable mouse and set up some codes or other and need a cable box, obviously, to work.
Have no idea what a cable mouse is..? If I had it my analog vcr could program different stations on the converter box (or vice versa)?
Jees, all I need to do is be able to watch PBS, "House," "Criminal Minds," and "Without a Trace," and the occasional movie.
Thanks!
PS. I see no way to start new threads here on CNET, so does everyone just reply to the last one they see? I just see the "reply," and not even a page number of this forum that I'm on. Am I missing something? (Probably...)
More answers
by gmclam - 1/19/09 10:15 AM In reply to: Remote Question by cappykelly> Uh, if you have multiple converter boxes, does that mean you're going to have multiple remotes?
Typically EACH device has its OWN remote control. Sometimes you can use one remote for more than one device, but it depends on the devices. I am able to control my TV display from my DVR remote; it was designed to do so after I entered the code for my TV display.
> And will you need yet another remote for the TV and or VCR/DVD?
Sounds like a whole table full of remotes ;-(
Yup.
> I just found (tah dah!) the booklet for my VCR.. sony slv-n71. It apparently has a cable box control, tho it says you need to buy a cable mouse and set up some codes or other and need a cable box, obviously, to work. Have no idea what a cable mouse is..?
It is a little infra-red emitting device that is a LOT smaller than a computer mouse. I've never had to buy one separately, they always came with the VCR. I doubt you'd be able to get one for an old VCR, but you never know what an Internet search will come up with.
> If I had it my analog vcr could program different stations on the converter box (or vice versa)?
Tuners built in to VCRs typically can only receive a limited number of analog over-the-air channels (2-69). Cable TV uses a lot more channels, and digital over-the-air requires a different tuner/etc. So the VCR was manufactured with the idea that it could essentially control an external tuner - of which had pretty much been cable boxes. Many people will connect their cable box to the TV or VCR and set their TV or VCR to channel 4, and do all channel changing on the cable box. When watching, it's no issue as you just use the remote control for the cable box. But when setting a timer recording, the VCR has to actually do the channel changing on the cable (or in this case digital) tuner/converter.
> Jees, all I need to do is be able to watch PBS, "House," "Criminal Minds," and "Without a Trace," and the occasional movie.
Channel 1 = PBS
Channel 2 = House (Fox)
Channel 3 = Criminal Minds & Without a Trace (CBS)
Channel 4 = Movie (?)
If all of the shows you want to record were on the same network/channel, then you could just leave the converter on that channel and the VCR would not have to change it. Another thing you might be able to do is have more than one converter box, with each set to a different digital channel, and connect each to a different "LINE INPUT" on your VCR. Most modern VCRs have at least 2 line inputs (one typically on the front, and one on the back). When there is an occassional movie to record, you'll just have to remember to manually select the correct channel. This is an easy approach but with limitations.
take a step back
by KeithHarmon - 1/19/09 11:24 AM In reply to: More answers by gmclam> And will you need yet another remote for the TV and or VCR/DVD?
Sounds like a whole table full of remotes ;-(
> Jees, all I need to do is be able to watch PBS, "House," "Criminal Minds," and "Without a Trace," and the occasional movie.
>Another thing you might be able to do is have more than one converter box, with each set to a different digital channel, and connect each to a different "LINE INPUT" on your VCR. Most modern VCRs have at least 2 line inputs (one typically on the front
gmclam - your answers are technically correct, but it's time to take a look at the actual usabilty of the end solution. more devices=more connections=more remotes=more confusing.
also, chances are good that a VCR that will control a cable box may not have the correct infrared control codes to control the converter box.
A DVR with a digital tuner is a reasonable solution at just under $200 (walmart.com). This eliminates the need for a converter box, not to mention you don't have to ensure you have a rewound VHS tape in the VCR.
Also, you only need to get a converter if you need to watch a different show (on the converter) while the DVR records.
Also, since you record to an internal hard drive, you can then later decide if you want to make a 'permanent' copy on DVD.
Anyway, another way to tackle the problem. Remenber that the cheapest solution is no good if it is not useable.
Another overview
by gmclam - 1/19/09 11:43 AM In reply to: take a step back by KeithHarmongmclam - your answers are technically correct, but it's time to take a look at the actual usabilty of the end solution. more devices=more connections=more remotes=more confusing.
I was replying to a specific situation described by the OP. She wants to continue to use a specific VCR. And if her VCR is actually able to control the external digital tuners/converters, additional remotes will not be needed for those boxes.
> also, chances are good that a VCR that will control a cable box may not have the correct infrared control codes to control the converter box.
This is true. But I do know that digital converters exist which use EXISTING remote codes. It does depend on the specific converter obtained.
> A DVR with a digital tuner is a reasonable solution at just under $200 (walmart.com). This eliminates the need for a converter box, not to mention you don't have to ensure you have a rewound VHS tape in the VCR.
The OP didn't ask about a DVR, she wants to use her VCR and told us why. I do agree that a GOOD DVR is a much better solution, those things sold for $200 are JUNK. I actually have a couple of them here which I obtained for testing and both have failed after being 'used' for less than 1 year. A good quality DVR will cost at least $500, otherwise you are throwing away your money.
> Also, you only need to get a converter if you need to watch a different show (on the converter) while the DVR records.
I mentioned that.
> Also, since you record to an internal hard drive, you can then later decide if you want to make a 'permanent' copy on DVD.
This is a whole new issue and not related to these threads nor the OP's questions. There are PROs & CONs to recording on tape as well as on a DVR.
> Anyway, another way to tackle the problem. Remenber that the cheapest solution is no good if it is not useable.
My solution would cost about $1000, but does not address the OP's questions and may not be any more 'usable' if the OP can not afford it. The issue here was what it takes to continue using a VCR after the digital transition. Otherwise I guess a "solution" might just be to trash everything being used now and just subscribe to DSS and pay an extra monthly fee for a DVR - but that does not address the issue of over-the-air digital TV.
Thanks for the DVR info
by KeithHarmon - 1/20/09 11:26 AM In reply to: Another overview by gmclamGood to know on the DVR info (i.e., the cheap ones are junk based on your actual testing), the price for the capability did seem to be off.
Gmclam: I hope I didn't come across as too critical, not my intent. I think you are doing a great job on this forum. I know that in some of my discussions (online and IRL), my questioner goes down a path of "what's possible" and "can I do this" that ends up in a place that the technical answer is still yes, but the caveats that I have to add are extensive. There are a lot of things that I the 'techno-geek' can make work, but my wife would slap me upside the head while I tried to explain how to operate them 
That is, unless I was able to do a lot of custom programmed automation/macros/etc to make it easier, the kind of stuff that would cost a lot more than the hardware and/or savings.
Just wanted to point out that sometimes we can end up with something that 'works', but requires many specific buttons to be pushed in a specific sequence.
DVR Info
by gmclam - 1/20/09 11:58 AM In reply to: Thanks for the DVR info by KeithHarmon> Good to know on the DVR info (i.e., the cheap ones are junk based on your actual testing), the price for the capability did seem to be off.
Get yourself a 300G hard drive (or larger), a digital tuner, a power supply, a source for your TV guide informaiton and some software to tie it all together. What do you think that should cost? Add in the required licensing fees for MPEG, ATSC, TV Guide and a long list of features people seem to require in a DVR; and there is NO way a company can sell that to the people for under $300. DSS & Cable companies make a profit from your monthly fees. TiVo, who charges a monthly fee just to 'activate' your DVR has not made a profit in doing so. I can't see a real DVR costing less than $500 (and that is largely wishful thinking), especially if you do not want a monthly fee.
DVR manufacturers have told me personally that they can not make a profit on DVRs in the USA and therefore have had no plans to sell them here. I own an old Sony analog DVR that cost about $600 a couple of years ago that was well worth every penny. A high definition version of that unit should easily cost a lot more.
> ... my questioner goes down a path of "what's possible" and "can I do this" that ends up in a place that the technical answer is still yes, but the caveats that I have to add are extensive. There are a lot of things that I the 'techno-geek' can make work, but my wife would slap me upside the head while I tried to explain how to operate them That is, unless I was able to do a lot of custom programmed automation/macros/etc to make it easier, the kind of stuff that would cost a lot more than the hardware and/or savings. Just wanted to point out that sometimes we can end up with something that 'works', but requires many specific buttons to be pushed in a specific sequence.
When it comes to DVRs, your easy choices right now are TiVo or something from your TV service provider. For those of us who get our television over-the-air, the choices are pretty slim or fairly complex.
Because no company currently sells a "real" DVR here, the only choice I see for us now are 'Media Center PCs'. This is a PC which is somewhat dedicated to being a media server in our homes. It can store photos, music and video programs. It can have multiple (digital) tuners and record several programs at once. It can drive TVs in every room of our homes via "media extenders". This is not a cheap option, but surprisingly not all that expensive either (considering all it can do). Ironically this is more complicated to set up, but I think is much easier to operate than many other options being discussed here.
DVR with hard drive option...
by baseman - 1/20/09 12:13 PM In reply to: DVR Info by gmclamgm...When you say there are no current "real" DVR offerings, doesn't Philips still make a DVR with a hard drive? I recently purchased one that is complete with a digital tuner. I believe it is the 3576H model. Mixed reviews, but it works great for me. I can record to the hard drive and then delete or copy to the DVD.
Real DVRs .. eventual HD TV
by gmclam - 1/20/09 12:27 PM In reply to: DVR with hard drive option... by basemangm...When you say there are no current "real" DVR offerings, doesn't Philips still make a DVR with a hard drive? I recently purchased one that is complete with a digital tuner. I believe it is the 3576H model. Mixed reviews, but it works great for me. I can record to the hard drive and then delete or copy to the DVD.
I have two DVRs here manufactured by Philips. Both have significant issues/failures with them. Neither has an on-screen guide, which means they must be programmed like a VCR. One thing that people really like about DVRs is that they can be programmed from a GUI. Neither of these have that ability.
I have seen numerous software crashes with these units, which make them unreliable for making timer recordings. Of the two units I have, one was manufactured in Japan, the other in China. The Chinese unit has an ATSC tuner, which no longer works. The user interface is horrible, and the ability to navigate recordings clumsy at best.
I personally do not know if these units are still being made (or sold). I have looked for them in stores, and have not seen any. If my choice is using a VCR or one of these Philips units; I'll use the VCR. Fortunately I have the SONY DVR, which I totally love.
The downside there is that it only records in standard definition. The on-screen guide will stop working when analog TV goes off the air. It will require a digital tuner/converter after 2/17/2009. I will be installing 3 digital tuners (it has 3 line inputs) to manage recordings after 2/17/2009 (each set to a different channel). This was one option I discussed in an earlier post. Certainly not for everyone, but it works for me for now. When the Sony dies, the only reasonable option I see (because I'll certainly want High Defintion recordings) is the Media Center approach.
DVR with HD
by baseman - 1/20/09 12:41 PM In reply to: Real DVRs .. eventual HD TV by gmclamgm...I see. You are more talking about the "programability" with the Tivo-like GUI as the difference. I also have an old Panasonic DVD recorder with a hard drive..but analog only tuner...but I have that hooked directly to the digital cable box. It has a cable mouse. Do you see future DVD recorders with hard drives...I guess now Blu Ray...especially as technology changes in the coming year or two? By the way, I recently purchased the Philips 3576H a few months ago. It is still listed on the Philips site. Knock on wood, mine has worked perfectly thus far. Watch, I just put the kiss of death on it.
New DVRs
by gmclam - 1/20/09 1:03 PM In reply to: Real DVRs .. eventual HD TV by gmclamgm...Do you see future DVD recorders with hard drives...I guess now Blu Ray...especially as technology changes in the coming year or two?
They are putting hard drives into TVs and other devices now. So the next generation of a DVR is not a separate box per se, but included in your TV display/etc.
Blu-Ray; another topic entirely. Some say it is only a 'bridge' technology as it is just another physical moving media. HDDs incorporated with Blu-Ray Players? - I don't see any reason why not.
> By the way, I recently purchased the Philips 3576H a few months ago. It is still listed on the Philips site. Knock on wood, mine has worked perfectly thus far.
I have never seen a Philips DVR that worked "perfectly". It is a good example of 'you get what you pay for'. I guess if they last people for 1 year, and you can get one each year, that works for some. I'd rather pay more up front, have no monthly fees, and have peace of mind that my recordings are actually going to happen. By the time my DVR fails, technology has advanced anyway and a replacement/upgrade is desired.
Multiple Remotes/Not necessarily
by HalfLife360 - 1/19/09 10:54 AM In reply to: Remote Question by cappykelly<<if you have multiple converter boxes, does that mean you're going to have multiple remotes? And will you need yet another remote for the TV and or VCR/DVD?>>
Yes and no. Insignia from BestBuy has an option to control the TV. Once you program the convertor remote for the TV, you can use the one to control both the TV and the Convertor box. Bestbuy has two kinds. One is with a Smart Antennae but the remote only controls the convertor. The other (regular antennae) controls both. I have not seen any other brands in W/K marts, Rite Aids, Target or Radio Shack that carry such a TV/Convertor remote as BestBuy's Insignia brand.
A 3rd party Universal remote might control all 3 but you'd want to check for a return policy in case it's not compatible with the older technology/codes. I setup 3-4 relatives with the Insignia brand and one with the smart ant. version. I just like reducing the number of remotes when the option is avail. The Insignia remote is a comfortable size and not micro like most competing brands.
<<I just found (tah dah!) the booklet for my VCR.. sony slv-n71. It apparently has a cable box control, tho it says you need to buy a cable mouse and set up some codes or other and need a cable box, obviously, to work. If I had it my analog vcr could program different stations on the converter box (or vice versa)?>>
That just means your VCR has the option to hook up to a cable service.
If you subscribe to cable, than you don't need the convertor since cable service will already convert for you.
Just connect your line from the convertor to the recorder's line in.
If you set your VCR to LINE IN and make sure it's the line that has the signal from the Convertor, you'll record your programs. Things to remember, you need to leave the convertor box and ant. on when recording and don't switch channels while watching. It's recording the line signal you get from the convertor. Think of Camcorders that are hooked to the VCR recorder. The signal comes in as Line 1, 2, or 3 depending. You need to remember to turn on the convr/ant. for recording.
<<all I need to do is be able to watch PBS, "House," "Criminal Minds," and "Without a Trace," and the occasional movie.>>
I hear you. I have my DVD set up to a switch box and the convertor hooked to it and a vcr. I was thrilled to jump up from 2 channels to 25 channels but then realized I only actually use about 3 channels. As long as the signal is strong and I get my monthly DVD rentals, I'm happy. I upgraded someone else to a new LCD TV with tuner and then had to upgrade the DVD/VRC recorder as well. With this convertor setup, I was only out $20 and BestBuy even rebated some more money when they were told to by the govt oversight for charging the wrong amount of tax on early sales.
<< I see no way to start new threads here on CNET, so does everyone just reply to the last one they see? I just see the "reply," and not even a page number of this forum that I'm on. Am I missing something? (Probably...)>>
You just started your thread (subj within a giant pile). Cnet is not as user controlled as other forums. You can subscribe to a thread to get posts on replies. I was subscribed early 2008 and got the occasional notices but today received something like 30 subscription track notices, each on a different topic and some very much discussed repeatedly topics. You can do a search on the forums when logged in. It's not really thread separate thing. I'd like Cnet to allow this one Giant topic separate into specific issues for easier tracking/searching.
getting a little confused
by cappykelly - 1/20/09 12:30 AM In reply to: Multiple Remotes/Not necessarily by HalfLife360OK, first off, I do appreciate people trying to help me! Am I an "OP"? Don't know what that is, but if it's someone who needs help, that would be me.
Re my specific situation, no, I don't want cable. And likely I won't be getting satellite tv (who knows... some day?).
I do love my VCR, but if sticking with it creates more problems than getting a new one, I could see getting a new one (a vcr/dvd I believe is what they have now). I don't know anything about dvr's. ?
I assume any new vcr/dvd would then NOT need a converter box, correct? But I'd need one for my old TV unless I were to purchase a new tv.
So isn't the only problem on how to switch from one station to another to record when I'm not home? Or would the new vcr/dvd take care of that?
Yeah, a whole table full of remotes does not sound like fun.
Thanks again.
C.
Hope this clears up a few things...
by zysmith - 1/20/09 7:19 AM In reply to: getting a little confused by cappykellyCappy,
A new vcr with a digital tuner would be able to record just as your current vcr does. Many VCR's came as a combo with DVD players but you may be able to find just a VCR with a digital tuner. The digital tuner is the key.
You existing TV needs the box to convert the digital signals. If you get a new tv (which you don't have to get) again a digital tuner is the key to eliminating the converter box.
As for a DVR (digital video recorder); A DVR is just like a VCR except for how it records the programs. They are recorded on a hard drive (like the one in your computer) or onto a DVD (like burning a CD) instead of on a tape. They generally provide longer recording times and the quality is better. Other advantages are that some allow you to pre-program not only multiple programs but you can set a program to record every time it is on. You will never forget to record your programs.
If you want/need more information on DVR's you can ask here.
dvr question then...
by cappykelly - 1/20/09 8:48 AM In reply to: Hope this clears up a few things... by zysmithAs I understand it, vcr's are the only ones where you can exactly start/stop, back up, fast forward. With dvd's you get close, but it's not like you can backup 2 seconds to hear something you didn't quite catch.
How is it with a dvr?
A dvd offers the convenience of playing movies. I gather a dvr does not?
I guess if I was to go all out I'd get a combo vcr/dvd with digital tuner and a dvr, which sounds like it's digital already.
then with the TV, as you say, either a box for it or a new one.
How many remotes would this mean? ACK! Does the VCR/DVD have one remote? So if a tv and a box... one for the box, one for tv, one for vcr/dvd... one for dvr if I got one???? Man. I'd have to label em... ;-O
More answers
by gmclam - 1/20/09 10:35 AM In reply to: dvr question then... by cappykelly> Am I an "OP"?
Yes. It means Original Poster.
> I assume any new vcr/dvd would then NOT need a converter box, correct?
VCRs are now considered to be old technology. It is one thing to continue using something you arelady have, but most people would not recommend that you purchase a new VCR. If in fact there are some new VCRs out there, it would either be required to include a digital tuner, or have a notice on it that it does not.
> But I'd need one for my old TV unless I were to purchase a new tv.
Correct, your old TV requires a digital converter to receive over-the-air programs (after 2/17/2009).
> So isn't the only problem on how to switch from one station to another to record when I'm not home?
Yes.
> Or would the new vcr/dvd take care of that?
Theoretically it would. Read what I wrote above regarding "new" VCRs.
> As I understand it, vcr's are the only ones where you can exactly start/stop, back up, fast forward. With dvd's you get close, but it's not like you can backup 2 seconds to hear something you didn't quite catch.
Good quality VCRs, DVRs and DVD players will allow allow you to "navigate" a recording pretty much how you wish. There are some exceptions when watching DVDs.
> How is it with a dvr?
If you get a good quality DVR, you will have MORE choices to navigate a recording, not less.
> A dvd offers the convenience of playing movies. I gather a dvr does not?
Complex question. In simple terms; people use Digital Video RECORDERS (DVRs) to record TV programs and watch them when they wish. They use DVD players to watch rented movies. There are now also services available where movies can be downloaded - this is a totally separate complex topic.
> I guess if I was to go all out I'd get a combo vcr/dvd with digital tuner and a dvr, which sounds like it's digital already.
If you have a library of VHS tapes, then it is nice to have a VCR; but it does not sound like you need a new VCR. You'll want the DVD player to watch rented recordings. You want a DVR with digital tuner to record (timeshift) TV programs.
> then with the TV, as you say, either a box for it or a new one.
Yes.
| Forum legend: | |
 |
Locked thread |
 |
Moderator |
 |
CNET staff |
 |
Samsung staff |
 |
Norton Authorized Support team |
 |
AVG staff |
 |
Windows Outreach team |
 |
Dell staff |
 |
Intel staff |
