Samsung: LE46A956 100hz Problems
LE46A956 100hz Problems
by markrose61 - 1/13/09 7:33 AMHi,
I have a 100hz European model of the Series 9, and my primary player will be my HTPC. I have some problems which I hope can be fixed in an updated firmware. One problem is a bug, and another is more a request.
Details
Vista 32Bit
100hz Motion Plus - Off
Firmware Version: 1010
Bug 1
When using HDMI-2 labelled to "PC", only 60hz is treated as PC mode. This means when connected in 24p or 50p mode the TV is in normal mode. This is fine but this should be consistent.
The problem occurs because I have my desktop set to 50p and "Just Scan" display mode which is correct, so I can sync my 25p material properly.
When I boot up the PC, the bios and windows loading screen naturally run at 60p, switching the display mode to "16:9" which again is correct.
Now when my desktop kicks in and turns the display back to 50p, I would expect the TV to remember my "Just Scan" setting, but it doesn't. It stays on the 16:9 setting and so I manually have to select "just scan" many times per day.
Suggested Fix
I am sure a firmware update could fix this by either not hiding the "Just Scan" option for 60p mode and therefore no changing is forced OR keep all input hz consistently in PC-Mode.
Problem 1
Horizontal Combing
Normal Connection (Not hdmi-2 named to "PC")
24hz - Combing
50hz - PERFECT
60hz - Combing
PC-Mode (HDMI-2 Named to "PC"
24hz - Combing
50hz - PERFECT
60hz - PERFECT (Probably dropping frames to get to 100hz though)
Suggested Fix
Please do 1 of 2 things.
1) Allow the user to select the method of scaling 24p and 60p to 100. Using the interlacing method thats being done which is causing my combing effects, or using the frame drop/repeat method. The latter is my preference by far.
2) Allow the screen if possible to switch internally between 100hz and 120hz, or allow this as a menu option. This would fix ALL of the problems I see alot on the av and avsforums. Please let me know if this is possible, or worst case scenario, can I install a US firmware to get proper 24hz and 60hz.
Thanks for reading,
Regards,
Mark
Bump
by markrose61 - 1/14/09 1:22 AM In reply to: LE46A956 100hz Problems by markrose61Hi,
Just bumping this up as I am sure Mr Samsung was busy at the CES 
.
Thanks again,
Mark
Loud and Clear!
by Samsung_HD_Tech
- 1/15/09 12:35 AM
In reply to: Bump by markrose61
Thanks for your patience. It really is very much appreciated.
I've read your post in its entirety. This is really really great feedback.
I'm going to send this to our engineers, and then hold onto it until I get some contacts in our European Division and re-send this to them with a few comments of my own (if I may). Part of what I do is make recommendations, and I will heartily do so.
To answer your question, the firmware updates for the U.S. will likely not work on European Models, and I've been asked to note that we don't recommend cross referencing firmwares for other regions. Several reasons for this include the PAL/NTSC difference, as well as (depending on model) capabilities that may offer more (or less) restrictions with software and applications that are dependent on regions and applicable laws. Not to mention power consumption regulated by such firmware software can vary, and possibly cause damage (though, I'm not sure how widespread this would be, it would definitely merit some consideration from the manufacturer's point of view).
I've tracked this thread, and I'll keep you posted on these developments. Quie honestly, I'm not sure how many people this kind of information has to go through to get to the right people to address this (and I'm working to streamline this), but I'll be happy to put my support behind this.
Again, thanks for the time and effort you put into this.
Regards,
--HDTech
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Thanks
by markrose61 - 1/15/09 1:18 AM In reply to: Loud and Clear! by Samsung_HD_Tech
Thank you I really appreciate you taking the time to do this.
Switching internally between 100 and 120hz would really make these LCD's the best there is, lets just hope they can physically do it, and the engineers can see the benefit.
I look forward to the reply that they might give,
Regards,
Mark
Not quite related but you may be able to help...
by RMarch - 1/16/09 10:56 AM In reply to: LE46A956 100hz Problems by markrose61I live in Europe (Amsterdam) and have all US equipment. My Samsung DLP just died and I going to bu the Samsung LE46A956. I just want to confirm that my US Xbox (which I use as a media center extender) would work via HDMI on the LE46A956 (which of course is the European 100Hz model). I always though it would work fine, but based on your post I now have my doubts. I sure dont want horizontal combing with a 60Hz source.
Thanks.
Some Tests To Help Future Firmware
by markrose61 - 1/16/09 11:30 AM In reply to: Not quite related but you may be able to help... by RMarchWell I have compiled a summary of the problems I have noticed with this screen as it stands now. Hopefully will get fixed in next firmware. Because the effects are variable depending on on screen motion, here is a website I found that I can put on the screen to test various problems I see reliably.
http://www.12noon.com/displaychanger.htm
Used for reliably testing the flickering and color change between input rates and motion plus settings. Two horizontal red lines on that page show change in red color between motion plus modes, and flicker like crazy at 24hz and 60hz if motion is going on anywhere on screen. They stay still if no motion on screen so some detection of motion is going on. Nice way to test how the screen is performing and to test future firmware updates.
===========================
My Settings
===========================
Mode: Movie
Other settings calibrated using spyder2.
Using HDMI-1 for these tests.
All Processing like noise reduction disabled
Sharpness 0 as it makes 1920x1080 content look as it should, no messing with the pixels.
===========================
===========================
Test Description and Possible Results
===========================
Test 1: Red line flickering effect when motion on screen
Possible Results:Not Present,Medium,Bad
Test 2: Horizontal Combing of objects when motion on screen
Possible Results: Present,Not Present
Test 3: Red Color Vividness on 1px horizontal lines (Do they become dull because only 1px high)
Possible Results: Correct,Dull
Test 4: Corruption of moving objects (Corruption in areas of screen where absolutely no motion is occuring)
Possible Results: Not Present,Medium,Bad
===========================
THE TEST RESULTS
===========================
Settings: 24hz + Motion on Low
Flickering: Medium
Combing: Medium
Color: Correct
Corruption: Bad
Settings: 24hz + Motion Off
Flickering: Bad
Combing: Bad
Color: Correct
Corruption: Not Present
Settings: 50hz + Motion on low
Flickering: Not Present
Combing: Not Present
Color: Correct
Corruption: Bad
Settings: 50hz + Motion off
Flickering: Not Present
Combing: Not Present
Color: Dull
Corruption: Not Present
Settings: 60hz + Motion on low
Flickering: Medium
Combing: Medium
Color: Correct
Corruption: Bad
Settings: 60hz + Motion off
Flickering: Bad
Combing: Bad
Color: Dull
Corruption: Not Present
Conclusion:
Horizontal combing is the method to scale 24p/60p to 100hz.
Motion Plus needs much more work, areas of the screen becoming corrupt even when no movement.
Very thin 1px~ high parts of images become dulled with motion plus off, strangely look correct on low although I prefer this setting set to off. On looks clearer strangely, off looks blurry and much duller, almost grey, and very noticible on lots of Blu-Rays that have very thin, high resolution lines that look duller with motion off.
Hopes:
To have option to choose between 24p/60p -> 100hz scaling, combing method, or frame repeat method.
OR
Internally switch to 120hz mode to avoid all of these problems.
Look into the thin color changes, especially the differences between motion on and off, why would a static line change color.
Huge change in red color 1px high lines between motion plus on and off.
Improve motion detection on motion plus (low, med and high) because even on low setting, massive corruption of parts of image that don't even have movement.
Typo
by markrose61 - 1/16/09 11:36 AM In reply to: Some Tests To Help Future Firmware by markrose61One typo above, 24hz+Motion Off, the Color was Dulled on the thin horizontal lines.
PC-Mode fixes colour dullness
by markrose61 - 1/19/09 2:52 PM In reply to: Typo by markrose61Just a little more on the washed out colors that are noticible in certain situations. The washout colour seen on the horizontal lines, and this example here. The blue for example of the text is almost unreadable.
http://img382.imageshack.us/my.php?image=examplepr4.png
This should not be the case. The image above is almost impossible to read when in any mode such as HDMI-1, HDMI-2, the text gets blurred into the colour behind it. This is with sharpness set to 0 so I get the original image in most situations, noise reduction off, smart led on or off.
BUT I have found that if I connect the TV in "PC Mode" (HDMI1 + PC Name) these washed out problems go away completely. The dark blue doesn't blend into the lighter blue, and the red in the horizontal lines is.... well red is like it should be.
I am sure this is not a desired feature of the TV, colours being blended into eachother. Could these problems be looked into please aswell as the combing issues as I am sure 99% of people will use this TV in normal configurations, HDMI-1 and not set in PC mode, and these configurations have this really bad colour problems. A clearer option needs to given to users to get around this problem, whatever that option may be... maybe something like... "Enable Internal Processing", and when disabled, motion plus is unavailable, colours are produced correctly like in PC mode above.
With these two problems fixed, combing + color being blended together in non pc modes, this TV is seriously one of the best there is. Without these fixes, I'm afraid its not. 
I really look forward to feedback on this.
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