Community Newsletter: Q&A: Finding compatible memory and a new hard drive for an older PC
- 10/17/08 4:33 PM
Hard drives are easy, memory is more problematic
by WTM - 10/11/08 4:18 PM In reply to: Finding compatible memory and a new hard drive for an older PC by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
Replacing the hard drive is easy. When you start your PC, the BIOS string should be readily available on the POST screen. You can take that BIOS string, go to the manufacturer of the BIOS, and find out what drive capacity is supported by it. As long as you have the interface for the drive available, it will work.
But if you don't have the connectors, all is not lost. If you have a PCI or better expansion slot available, you can utilize most any type of drive with a third party add on controller. IDE and SATA controllers can be quite inexpensive, and that is why most people choose them. SCSI and SAS controllers are far more expensive, but also have far more capabilities, and that is why they are the primary corporate choice.
The differences between IDE/ATA, EIDE, and Ultra DMA is mainly performance. The old IDE/ATA drives being the slowest, and Ultra DMA being the fastest. Of course drive capacity constantly grows as time goes by, so the Ultra DMA drives will also be the fastest.
The same holds true for SATA and SATA II. SATA II drives operate on an interface capable of a whopping 3GB transfer rate, but don't expect the drive you purchase to achieve that. Drives haven't caught up with the interface yet, and if you couple that with the traffic jam of signals that exist in the motherboard's BUS, there isn't a prayer of achieving those speeds unless you have a third party controller capable of true BUS mastering. But those controllers will only do it in burst mode (short intervals), and a RISC processor on the controller is necessary to do it efficiently. I should probably add that only high end SCSI and SAS controllers are really good at this, and those cost more than most computers. That's why SCSI drives often seem slower, they aren't coupled to a controller capable of taking advantage of their enhanced capabilities. When they are, properly set up, they are far faster.
My recommendation would be SATA II. If the machine is too old to support it, I'd buy a controller card. Most every machine sold in the past ten years should have a PCI slot available. SATA II is cheaper, faster, and larger. Hence, the best choice.
Memory? You need to know the chipset to determine the maximum memory supported, and the type of memory sockets available. Find the FCC ID on the motherboard, and you can find the board manufacturer by searching a database available on the internet. It will also determine the board model, and you can find all of the answers you need to know by visiting the manufacturers web site. Usually OEM builders use brand name boards built to their specs, so they will have full capacity. A few brands (which I won't name), use bargain basement boards built by some obscure manufacturer that conjurs up visions of some Latvian Goatherder, and those are near worthless for upgrading. In that case, if money is an issue, you would be far better off to buy a surplus machine from a liquidator like computergeeks.com.
Everest Home Edition
by ludedude25 - 10/11/08 4:56 PM In reply to: Finding compatible memory and a new hard drive for an older PC by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
Find the program Everest home edition by Lavalys on the internet, should be a free version. http://www.majorgeeks.com/download4181.html
Will tell you everything you need to know about your system.
If not, and I had to guess i'd definately say it uses a IDE drive and memory would be either PC-133 or PC-3200 DDR. PC-133 is usually backward compatible with pc-100 and PC-3200 DDR is usually backward compatible with 2700 & 2100 DDR.
You can look at the current memory sticks to confirm what type you need as most have some kind of information sticker. Also PC ram has two notches and DDR has one near the middle.
Typically PC-133 will top out at 512mb and some 1gb easily while DDR can go up to 3-4 gig. You will need your motherboard info to find out what your pc's maximum capacity is.
Finding compatible memory and a new hard drive for an older
by techtype - 10/11/08 5:39 PM In reply to: Finding compatible memory and a new hard drive for an older PC by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
Dan there is a memory manufacture that will tell how much your motherboard/Main board will handle and the fastest speed it can handle. it will even give you the exact specs on the memory. The memory company is "Crucial" (http://www.crucial.com/), use their memory "Crucial Memory Advisor™ tool" or let them search your computer with their "Crucial System Scanner tool". if your system is up and running and still attached to the internet. What I would do is let Crucial tell me what memory I needed. Do a screen print out of what type and speed of memory needed (if you plan to buy locally). If your system is too old and the stores no longer carry your memory. The next best thing is to go to "COMPUTER SWAP MEETS". Sometimes somebody at these "COMPUTER SWAP MEETS" has the memory you will need. memory will work with only slowest memory on your. As an example if memory is 70ns and you have a memory chip that is 60ns, then all of your memory will only operate at 60ns max. So if you are getting memory get it all with the same speed.
Well you can still look at faster RPM's, but will your computer utilize it? Does no good if your computer's drive will only support 20ms seek time.
IDE is more of an interface then it is a type of drive.
IDE (http://www.techweb.com/encyclopedia/defineterm.jhtml?term=ide)
(1) (Integrated Development Environment) A set of programs run from a single user interface. For example, programming languages often include a text editor, compiler and debugger, which are all activated and function from a common menu.
(2) (Integrated Drive Electronics) A hardware interface widely used to connect hard disks, optical discs and tape drives to a PC. Introduced in 1986 with 20MB of storage, capacities increased a thousandfold in less than two decades. Compared to the SCSI interface, IDE has been the more economical choice.
The IDE interface is officially the AT Attachment (ATA) specification, and "IDE drives" and "ATA drives" are synonymous. The name came from the IBM PC/AT, which was the first PC to use the drives.
Built-In Electronics
The controller electronics are built into the IDE drive itself, requiring a simple circuit in the PC for connection. IDE drives were attached to earlier PCs using an IDE host adapter card. Subsequently, two Enhanced IDE (EIDE) sockets were built onto the motherboard, with each socket connecting two drives via a 40-pin ribbon cable for CD-Rom's and similar devices and an 80-wire cable for fast hard disks (see below).
Master and Slave
IDE drives are configured as master and slave. Jumper pins on the drive itself are used to set up the first drive on the cable as master and the second one, if present, as a slave.
ATAPI
The ATAPI (ATA Packet Interface) was developed to allow CD-ROM drives to run over the IDE/ATA interface by using commands similar to SCSI drives. ATAPI is essentially ATA for peripherals such as CD-ROMs, DVDs and tapes.
The ATA Numbers
As improvements were made to the IDE/ATA interface, a new version number was added. ATA-2 (Fast ATA) defined the faster transfer rates used in Enhanced IDE (EIDE). ATA-3 added interface improvements, including the ability to report potential problems (see S.M.A.R.T.). Starting with ATA-4, either the word "Ultra" or the transfer rate was added to the name in various combinations. For example, at 33 MBytes/sec, terms such as Ultra ATA and ATA-33 have been used. In addition, Ultra ATA-33, DMA-33 and Ultra DMA-33 are also found. Following are the transfer rates for the various ATA modes.
SATA (http://www.techweb.com/encyclopedia/defineterm.jhtml)term=sata&x=28&y=13)
(Serial ATA) A serial version of the ATA (IDE) interface, which has been the de facto standard hard disk interface for desktop PCs for more than two decades. The original Parallel ATA (PATA) interface was launched in 1986. SATA was introduced in 2002 at significantly higher speed, transferring data in each direction at 1.5 Gbps. A year later, SATA II increased speed to 3 Gbps.
SATA provides a point-to-point channel between motherboard and drive rather than the master-slave architecture in the parallel technology (see IDE).
Smaller Cables and Connectors
SATA uses a four-wire shielded cable up to one meter in length compared to the wide, flat, 18" PATA cables. SATA cables and connectors are considerably smaller than their PATA counterpart and take up a lot less space in the case.
eSATA
SATA defines only internal drives, but eSATA (External SATA) enables them to reside in their own housing outside the computer and be plugged in as required. Providing an external, hot swappable drive solution similar to USB, SATA offers much higher speeds than the USB bus.
Cables up to two meters long attach eSATA drives to the computer either via an eSATA PCI card or directly to the internal SATA socket on the motherboard. A short cable extends the motherboard socket to the back of the computer. Designed for thousands of insertions, eSATA plugs and sockets are more rugged than internal SATA connectors. See IDE and SAS.
PATA (http://www.techweb.com/encyclopedia/defineterm.jhtml)term=pata&x=27&y=14
(Parallel ATA) Refers to the original ATA (IDE) technology that uses a parallel data channel from the controller to the disk drives. After Serial ATA drives became popular, the PATA term was coined to specifically refer to the parallel drives.
SCSI (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SCSI)
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Two SCSI connectors.Small Computer System Interface, or SCSI (pronounced skuh-zee[1][2]), is a set of standards for physically connecting and transferring data between computers and peripheral devices. The SCSI standards define commands, protocols, and electrical and optical interfaces. SCSI is most commonly used for hard disks and tape drives, but it can connect a wide range of other devices, including scanners and CD drives. The SCSI standard defines command sets for specific peripheral device types; the presence of "unknown" as one of these types means that in theory it can be used as an interface to almost any device, but the standard is highly pragmatic and addressed toward commercial requirements.
SCSI is an intelligent interface: it hides the complexity of physical format. Every device attaches to the SCSI bus in a similar manner.
SCSI is a peripheral interface: up to 8 or 16 devices can be attached to a single bus. There can be any number of hosts and peripheral devices but there should be at least one host.
SCSI is a buffered interface: it uses hand shake signals between devices, SCSI-1, SCSI-2 have the option of parity error checking. Starting with SCSI-U160 (part of SCSI-3) all commands and data is error checked by a CRC32 checksum.
SCSI is a peer to peer interface: the SCSI protocol defines communication from host to host, host to a peripheral device, peripheral device to a peripheral device. However most peripheral devices are exclusively SCSI targets, incapable of acting as SCSI initiators—unable to initiate SCSI transactions themselves. Therefore peripheral-to-peripheral communications are uncommon, but possible in most SCSI applications. The Symbios Logic 53C810 chip is an example of a PCI host interface that can act as a SCSI target.
RAID (http://www.techweb.com/encyclopedia/defineterm.jhtml?term=RaID)
(Redundant Array of Independent Disks) A disk subsystem that is used to increase performance or provide fault tolerance or both. RAID uses two or more ordinary hard disks and a RAID disk controller. In the past, RAID has also been implemented via software only.
In the late 1980s, the term stood for "redundant array of inexpensive disks," being compared to large, expensive disks at the time. As hard disks became cheaper, the RAID Advisory Board changed "inexpensive" to "independent."
Small and Large
RAID subsystems come in all sizes from desktop units to floor-standing models (see NAS and SAN). Stand-alone units may include large amounts of cache as well as redundant power supplies. Initially used with servers, desktop PCs are increasingly being retrofitted by adding a RAID controller and extra IDE or SCSI disks. Newer motherboards often have RAID controllers.
Disk Striping
RAID improves performance by disk striping, which interleaves bytes or groups of bytes across multiple drives, so more than one disk is reading and writing simultaneously.
Mirroring and Parity
Fault tolerance is achieved by mirroring or parity. Mirroring is 100% duplication of the data on two drives (RAID 1). Parity is used to calculate the data in two drives and store the results on a third (RAID 3 or 5). After a failed drive is replaced, the RAID controller automatically rebuilds the lost data from the other two. RAID systems may have a spare drive (hot spare) ready and waiting to be the replacement for a drive that fails.
The parity calculation is performed in the following manner: a bit from drive 1 is XOR'd with a bit from drive 2, and the result bit is stored on drive 3 (see OR for an explanation of XOR).
RAID Levels
RAID 0 - Speed (Widely Used)
RAID level 0 is disk striping only, which interleaves data across multiple disks for performance. Widely used for gaming, RAID 0 has no safeguards against failure.
RAID 1 - Fault Tolerance (Widely Used)
Uses disk mirroring, which provides 100% duplication of data. Offers highest reliability, but doubles storage cost. RAID 1 is widely used in business applications.
RAID 2 - Speed
Instead of single bytes or groups of bytes (blocks), bits are interleaved (striped) across many disks. The Connection Machine used this technique, but this is rarely used because 39 disks are required.
RAID 3 - Speed and Fault Tolerance
Data are striped across three or more drives. Used to achieve the highest data transfer, because all drives operate in parallel. Using byte level striping, parity bits are stored on separate, dedicated drives.
RAID 4 - Speed and Fault Tolerance
Similar to RAID 3, but uses block level striping. Not often used.
RAID 5 - Speed and Fault Tolerance (Widely Used)
Data are striped across three or more drives for performance, and parity bits are used for fault tolerance. The parity bits from two drives are stored on a third drive and are interspersed with user data. RAID 5 is widely used in servers.
RAID 6 - Speed and Fault Tolerance
Highest reliability because it can recover from a failure of two disks, but not widely used. Similar to RAID 5, but performs two different parity computations or the same computation on overlapping subsets of the data.
RAID 10, RAID 100 - Speed and Fault Tolerance
RAID 10 is RAID 1 + 0. The drives are striped for performance (RAID 0), and all striped drives are duplicated (RAID 1) for fault tolerance.
RAID 100 is RAID 10 + 0. It adds a layer of striping on top of two or more RAID 10 configurations for even more speed.
To tell you which one is faster, that would be determined by your needs. Which one is fastest, still it is the one with the fastest seek time. There you have it time for you to make a decision. What else would determine what types of drives, your motherboard/Main board. Does it have connections for RAID, SATA OR PATA? It just so happens that my motherboard/Main board has all three. But not a lot of Motherboards/Main boards have all three options.
Well Dan that is about it for now. Hope this helps.
Not terribly hard, but unclear whether you should upgrade.
by BigGuns149 - 10/12/08 1:58 AM In reply to: Finding compatible memory and a new hard drive for an older PC by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
Figuring out the answers to your questions aren't too hard, but you may want to consider whether an upgrade is even worth doing. Since you provided no details on what the specs on this system are, I will note that generally speaking upgrading a machine running Windows XP past 2GB doesn't show dramatic performance benefits. Unless this machine is running the 64 bit version of Windows XP AKA Windows XP Pro x64(which is a fairly rare version of XP) then no application is capable of allocating more than 2GB of memory. Furthermore, due to hardware addressing most machines are only capable of using ~3.2-3.5 GB of RAM. This is true on all 32 bit operating systems even the 32-bit versions of Windows Vista! To make matters worse, some under some circumstances some older motherboards will actually run slower with the maximum amount of RAM. This is caused by higher latency.
Bottom line if you already have 2GB of RAM on this machine adding more is unlikely to cause a dramatic boost in performance. You may be able to use a faster module, but generally speaking the performance benefit of moving to a slightly faster module isn't worth the additional cost, particularly on a older system that uses older generation DDR1 memory, which is actually more expensive than DDR2.
First, figure out how much memory that you have, and the speed of the memory. For this I would recommend the popular tool CPU-Z. Download this utility and run the program. Once the program is running click on the SPD tab. It will tell you the type of memory(DDR, DDR2, etc.) and it will list the speed of the modules that are already in the machine and in many cases the manufacter. If you click on the slot drop down menu you will see how many slots that your machine has and by clicking on the slots you can figure out what is in the slots.
If you click on the mainboard tab it will give you the name of the motherboard and you can Google the model to find what the maximum memory capacity is.
Another option to find maximum memory capacity is to check out Crucial.com's scan my system utility. While this utility does a good job detecting what type of memory that your machine uses and what is the maximum amount of memory it often can't identify what is already in your system. I have found that it sometimes erroneously shows a machine as having 0GB of RAM. Therefore, even though Crucial's tool is more user friendly you may have little choice, but to either use CPU-Z or something similar to identify what is already in the system.
If your computer only supports RAMbus I would suggest not bothering with upgrading the RAM. RAMbus memory is hard to find and often far more expensive than DDR or DDR2.
As for your questions on hard drives I think you slightly oversimplified some things and overcomplicated others, but I will attempt to clarify.
The vast majority of consumer hard drives fit in one of two categories: PATA or SATA. SCSI still exists and has evolved into a serial interface like ATA into Serial Attached SCSI. While it has better performance it is much more expensive so it largely only exists in corporate environments(eg. large servers).
SATA is the newer standard that virtually all motherboards built in the last four years support. It uses a thin connector unlike the older PATA ribbons. If your computer support this standard I recommend to pick a drive that uses SATA. It is easier to set up(there are no master/slave jumpers to deal with) and you will easily be able to move it to another computer when you decide to retire this old computer because all new computers have SATA, but the older PATA technology is fading away. SATA currently has two speed standards: SATA/150 and SATA/300. Most hard drives on the market are SATA/300, but most consumer hard drive are physically incapable of exceeds the bandwidth limitations of SATA/150. Don't let anyone fool you into thinking that a SATA/300 drive is twice as fast as a SATA/150 drive. Except for things in the buffer most drives aren't fast enough to take advantage of SATA/300. I would steer clear of anybody making such erroneous claims. SATA/300 drives are generally backwards compatible with motherboards that were only designed for SATA/150. As for the question on SATA-II it refers to a set of features(eg. NCQ) that were added to the SATA standard. SATA-II is not synonymous with SATA/300 albeit most drives that support these new features also support SATA/300.
PATA formerly known simply as ATA refers to hard drives that are connected up through the older 40 pin ribbon connector. E/IDE is just a marketing term from Western Digital for PATA. PATA is typically sold in the PATA/100 or PATA/133 speeds with the PATA/133 in theory running faster. Since most drives don't take advantage of the full capabilities, I wouldn't pay more for a "faster drive" because in many situations this factor doesn't come into play. Unless your computer is less than four years old there is a good chance that this is the only type of connection that your computer supports, which is unfortunate because the choices for PATA drives are declining and often times the hard drives on sale are SATA not PATA. I generally don't recommend PATA drives anymore unless they are fairly expensive because they are a technological dead end. Some newer motherboards have already dropped PATA ports and those that haven't typically only have one port as opposed to two like older machines did. If the new drive is a stopgap measure to extend the life of a computer for a year or so that is fine, but PATA drives don't have much future when support for them is diminishing.
Ultimately all the factors that you listed for performance: faster RPMs, capacity, and buffers all contribute to performance of the drive and there is no easy straight forward formula for comparing drives. Faster rotational speed (ie. more RPMs) for example will mean lower access times(ie. it takes less time for the drive to find things), but in and of themselves it doesn't mean that more RPMs makes your computer faster.
Ultimately, the only numbers that I think you should focus on you are unlikely to see on the box: maximum or average sustained transfer speeds and seek time. For this information you frequently have to go online to a site like Tom's Hardware to read reviews on hard drives. The vast majority of retail sales associates(outside a few at Fry's or Microcenter) won't be able to tell you this information and even many websites selling the drives don't provide such information either. Ultimately if you want the best performance drive for your dollar you are going to have to do your homework.
As for UDMA it refers to a feature in ATA hard drives that allows hard drives to transfer data faster. I wouldn't get into too many technical details, but don't buy a hard drive merely because it lists UDMA.
As for NCQ, it stands for Native Command Queing, which refers to a technology that allows the hard drive to optimize read/write requests. You will only see this feature on SATA-II drives. While it doesn't hurt to have this feature, it is most beneficial for server type environments where there are a lot of reads and writes.
As to your final question of whether it is worth upgrading your motherboard the answer is that it depends. If your computer doesn't support SATA or uses an older type of RAM(eg. DDR or RAMbus) I would strongly consider getting a new motherboard because your upgrade options tend to be more expensive. If your computer is rather old upgrading your motherboard may require you to replace your RAM and your CPU, but in exchange you will get all sorts of benefits: plenty of SATA ports, plenty of USB ports, and support for faster RAM. If your machine is old enough even the cheapest CPU will be faster than what you have now. For as little as $200 your computer can get a new lease on life simply by replacing the motherboard, CPU, and memory. For a desktop computer provided all the other components are working well swapping a few components(motherboard, CPU, and memory) is a cheaper alternative to buying a whole new computer.
very nice reply with a few additions/corrections (FWIW)
by RussH - 10/18/08 2:07 PM In reply to: Not terribly hard, but unclear whether you should upgrade. by BigGuns149excellent reply let me add a few considerations, though... in no particular order
1) RAMBUS can be found relatively cheaply on EBAY. BigGuns is correct however if you are purchasing elswhere, particularly from the OEM's web site.
2) New MB often also means new power supply. Older MB's used a 20 pin connector where new use 24. While this isn't a deal killer... the 20 pin PS connector fits into the 24 and can technically be used or 20-24 pin adapters also solve the issue... the real problem tends to be one of power. Most older cases used 300 watts max (and were often 250) where the minimum on new cases is 350 watts. And new MB's/CPU's?video cards tend to like the added power.
3) Perhaps the biggest consideration regarding the new MB is that the Windows OS will need to be reinstalled. The OS install is quick but that's just the beginning. Consider also that you will need to install drivers, windows updates, ALL applications and utilities, browser plug-ins as well as restore all data to their proper locations. If you use client based email like OE, Outlook, and Thunderbird, this can be a challenge for those not familiar with the data structures. Personalized settings, for instance, IE memorized passwords, are usually lost.
4) Regarding hard drives,
a) Practically speaking, Sata is noticeably faster (at least 30%) than IDE, but not all MB's support SATA
b) For older motherboards without Sata resources, separate SATA controllers can be installed cheaply. In the early days of these controllers, there were many reliability issues related to drivers that ultimately ended up with re-installations of the OS. I believe those days are over now. BUT it's been a long time since I had to install an OS on a PC that used anything other than on-motherboard controllers.
c) Despite not using SCSI in a long time, my experience with these drives was very consistent. They are very expensive (as are the controllers needed to run them) BUT (at least years ago) they never failed. This can hardly be said of today,s IDE AND SATA drives.
Due to the unreliability of modern hard drives, for any PC where data is important, I strongly recommend the use of two hard drives, where the second serves as an image holder for and an automatic data backup device of the system drive. For those with relatively limited critical data, a flash drive may be used for backup purposes instead of a second hard drive. But, a flash drive is rarely large enough to contain an image of the system AND also backup that system.
Cheers to all...
External HD Issue
by waltere20 - 10/20/08 4:24 PM In reply to: Not terribly hard, but unclear whether you should upgrade. by BigGuns149Hello BigGuns 149,
Thanks for the detailed explanation. That's what we need.
Question though. Does it matter if my external HD is over 500 GB if my system is running Windows XP, 1.4 CPU, 512 RAM and 160GB HD? In short, will the system be able to read/recognize an external hard drive over 500GB without any conflict? To my knowledge, OS can only support a maximum number of gigabytes for Internal HD, unless there is a new technology that allows to break this upper limit.
Thank you.
If you still need question answered...
by Finge - 10/22/08 6:06 AM In reply to: External HD Issue by waltere20Not seeing a reply to your question for some time, if you still need question answered, reply to this post and I'll post the answer. Finge
With your help, I don't have any more questions.
by bgrayesq - 10/22/08 9:53 AM In reply to: If you still need question answered... by FingeWith your help, Now I'm an expert. However, I was at a website (oem.pc.world.com) where the site seemed to be able to read the ram info for the computer I was on, so I emailed customer svc to see if I could enter information about a different computer to get its ram mb info. The unbelirevable answer I received was "Our system does not know that you have a second computer." OH-KAY! Hmm.
Based on your comp descript, You should be OK
by Finge - 10/22/08 3:27 PM In reply to: With your help, I don't have any more questions. by bgrayesqI know you're waiting for an answer and I was giving them a chance to do so. Busy as I am, still, I'll answer your question. I think you don't have anything to worry about but let's run the list.
There are 2 situations to consider. (1) 48bit LBA, and (2) type of external Hard Drive, its case type, and the software used to control the external Hard Drive within that Hard Drive case assembly.
(1- 48bit LBA): For an explanation of this, consult, ( http://www.48bitlba.com/ ) The 137 GB size limitation is usually centered around the use of internal drives on a system that is not 48bit LBA capable or enabled. Only the earlier P4 motherboards had a problem with this but were usually corrected by Bios Updates in conjunction with XP SP1 upgraded to SP2. In either case, this is not usually a factor with "current" external drive systems but there are circumstances where it's prudent to verify. For grins, go to "48bitlba" website. At the site, locate in red "Tools and Drivers". In their category "Other Tools", you see "48bitlba.com EnableBigLba tool". Download that and run it (it's not an installer). It'll check your system for LBA status and offer to fix it if needed. Usually XP SP2 will pass this test unless there's a problem with the BIOS or motherboard capabilities which again, usually a Bios update will fix. I'd say since you're already utilizing a 160 hard drive on XP SP2, you'll pass the test. Doesn't hurt to check.
(2- External Hard Drive Enclosures that utilize their own software and circuitry to control the drive): I've found during my tests (which are many), whether the computer is 48bit LBA or not is irrelevant to an external enclosure having its own controlling circuitry and software to handle its own drive. The only time the computer's LBA handling of an external drive might come into play is if the case is just a case, and the only circuitry is the case's interface for connecting the hard drive to the computer through a USB or other connection. It's this "Plain Jane" case/hard drive combination I prefer because I get to choose the case and the hard drive.
I'd say you're fine concerning the LBA situation, but you might want to consider the external drive assembly, which has two considerations: USB speeds and "Plain Jane verses All-In-One or One-Touch".
I prefer a "custom" external enclosure rather than the one-touch solutions but each to their own. As an example, I use the Antec MX-1 (SATA) with a Western Digital VelociRaptor 300, partitioned with a couple 135's and the last partition with the remainder, but I can change the drive to any of my 7200 RPM drives and different sizes. This case is road worthy but really protects the drive if it's always stationary. There are similar cases for IDE drives as well. I even use this one on a P2 (400mhz system) with a PCI USB 2.0 Card. Works fine even with the VelociRaptor.
Here are the differences between the all-in-ones "one touch" and the custom "Plain Jane".
"Plain Jane" allows you to choose the type of case you wish, which should be spec'd to have it's own power adapter supplying power to the external enclosure rather than getting form the computer through the USB cable. It has its own internal cooling fan(s) keeping the Hard Drive cool, and internal shock mounts for the drive. Being listed at the manufacture's website in their support section is a must. If not listed, I don't buy it.
Other benefits of "Plain Jane" are: You don't need software for XP to recognize the drive. You don't need special CD restoration or fix-it Disc(s) or fix-it programs when and if the external assembly has a problem or if parts needs replaced. "Plains Jane's" are easy to hardware modify. You can format and partition the drive however you wish. You don't have proprietary software calling out to the manufacture for updates or other information transfers. You can choose the Make, Model and Size of the Drive(s) to be used.
(A word about partitioning the external.) I suggest at least two partitions regardless of the size of the drive. Starting with a format of "Extended Partition, not Primary", you can break it up into two partitions or drives if you will, with the latter partition about twice the size of what it would take to backup your computer, (clones, XP's default Backup, copied data folders, what ever) which should be on the end of the overall drive, and always requiring much less space than the first partition. With backups and even installation software stored there, that partition doesn't really ever need defragging. The first partition on that drive is the bulk of the drive used for large data saves, video, graphics and audio projects, whatever, and that partition would get defragged when necessary. This setup is easy for "Plain Jane" externals but no that easy to setup on One Touch or All-In-One systems.
(Last Comment) USB 1.1 verses 2.0 (now, upcoming version 3). Earlier External USB hard drive enclosures plain and software based were either not 2.0 compatible, having only 1.1 capability. Some following were 2.0 only and not 1.1 backward compatible. Most external cases at the present are both with upgrades pending version 3. These specifications only pertain to the data transfer speeds between the computer and the external drive. If your computer has 2.0 USB ports, fine. If you have 1.1 USB ports only, it's advisable to get a PCMCIA USB 2.0 card if it's a laptop or a PCI USB 2.0 card if it's a tower, both available relatively inexpensive. You won't like transferring data at 1.1 "turtle speed".
Hope this helps. - Finge
Even if it does not. . . . . .
by techtype - 10/22/08 7:22 AM In reply to: External HD Issue by waltere20Even if it does not, there is software that can break down the drive into smaller logical drives. It is still a 500GB drive just broke down into smaller partitions or logical drives.
memory and drive for old pc
by couger9762 - 10/12/08 3:30 AM In reply to: Finding compatible memory and a new hard drive for an older PC by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
if you are talking about a P1 or P2... then use ram pc133 or pc100
limited space... usually limited to 512 meg
hard drives are limited too...I think a max of 32 gig
good luck and I hop e I was of help
Hard drives
by Steve Trappasse - 10/12/08 6:21 AM In reply to: Finding compatible memory and a new hard drive for an older PC by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
No I dont know the answer , but I do have a question for you , and then i will give yours a shot ok,........ I purchased an external hardrive 500 gigs , I really needed this as my C:/ drive is only 33 gb in size and I always have down around 6 gbs available and once ran out of room altogether. My question is , I back up alright , automatically by Vista , but my question is , where is best to back up ...I back up to my External hard drive E:/ . Should I be backing up to a second External hard drive, altogethr the third for this machine ?
Thanks Loads .....
AS for your question ......When I added the external hard drive , I just had to plug it in , and plug it in ,. But I also performed a manuver which i am not certain i needed to but has worked out fine so far ...I had to CONVERT it from FAT.....File Alocation Table.....over to NTFS ,New Technology File System...as mentioned in the owners manual. I would and did seek help with this .I have a DELL Dimension 3000, 2006 or 2004 model. DELL offers technical support as does the manufacturerer of the External Hard drive ....who was estern Digital, and my product was My Book Essential. Just a note..... When I had Clean installed Vista on my computer , I need to unplug everything, and this unit need ed a jump start by pugging it in directly to a wall outlet and after it started , then quickly plugging it in to the power strip again , and it has been fine ever since . Good and best luck to you , it was simple for me , could it work for you , I hope so .
MemoryGiant.com
by john3347 - 10/12/08 12:15 PM In reply to: Finding compatible memory and a new hard drive for an older PC by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
Dan, I know the answer to your second question (at least have a firm opinion), but someone else is probably better qualified to answer it than I, so I will not create confusion.
As to your first question: Simply go to www.memorygiant.com and install a tiny program (just a very few kb) to your harddrive and it will give you all the options that are available to you as to memory modules. It will even make a suggestion as to the economically most practical choice. (their prices are in line with discount retailers and they offer USPS shipping for free) I have used them on several occasions and have been very satisfied with them. I did receive one bad, or incorrect, module on one order and they gave me no "static" whatsoever. They mailed a replacement module that same day without charge and gave me an RA# and ten days to return the nonworking item without any more money changing hands. I recommend them highly.
Finding compatible memory and a new hard drive for an older
by HJBartz - 10/12/08 12:43 PM In reply to: Finding compatible memory and a new hard drive for an older PC by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
Q1: the quickest way to find out the motherboard specifications is to check the manufacturer of the motherboard (usually found printed on the mb with the mb serial number/manufacturer's number/model number - however, if you are quick you will see this information on your bootup screen)), then go to the manufacturer's site and download the manual. Failing that, most board manufacturers will have the specs on their site - but you may have to do a search, particularly if the board is an old one. Or you can remove one of your memory sticks , and if you're lucky, there will be sticker on it that will give you the necessary memory information, but you will still need the mb specs to find out the maximum memory the mb will take.
Q2: You dont say just how old the systems are. Once again the mb manual/specs will give you the information you require. However, since you say you are upgrading "older" pcs, I would suggest that the SATA series of hard drives would not be an issue for you - they reqiure a special connection (other than ide) on the mb. Generally, however, IDE hard drives will work with any mb as long as there are IDE connections on the mb and the bios recognises the hard drive.
more info re SATA at:
http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-sata-or-serial-ata.htm
re NCQ this link will give you further information:
http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/315
As for UDMA this link http://www.pcguide.com/ref/hdd/if/ide/modesUDMA-c.html
will give you more information.
There are many more links that you could follow for further information so happy 'googling'. Hope this has been of help.
OK your long behind the times but not hopeless
by myoungatheart - 10/12/08 1:22 PM In reply to: Finding compatible memory and a new hard drive for an older PC by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
First to the ram. You can look up the serial number on the stick that is allready in it on the net or even better the part number. This should give you the information you need as to the number of pins and the speed. The number of pins and the speed should be the same as the old stick. You might not be able to find that ram though, on a site like Tiger.com or newegg.com. You may have to ebay it, but if it's old it will probably be cheap to buy.
As to the hard drive SATA II is a different hardrive with fater transfer speeds, but the coonections on the motherboard and the Drive are different from ide. You would neen a card to put into the pci slot to run sata if you only have ide now. Those aren't cheap and the speed difference might not be noticeable with an older processor. Best to slap an ide back in it and save the headaches.
In a year or two the technology will be different, so that would be a good time to buy a middle of the road pc. There are lots of reviews of PC's all the time in different price ranges and I would use thos to pick out one that meets her needs and doesn't break the bank. Yes, technology changes yearly, but at the moment some computer components are in the process of transitioning, so best to wait a year and read, read, read. Good Luck to both of you and don't pay a lot for the old technology, because it is just a temporary way to tide her over until she can get a new one. At times it's even cheaper to get a new computer, but maybe not in this case.
Myoungatheart
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