Community Newsletter: Q&A: MacBook or PC laptop for college?
- 8/22/08 4:21 PM
are YOU serious??!?!?!!?!?!?!1111!?!!?111
by metalfan1982 - 9/7/08 8:49 AM In reply to: Are You SERIOUS??????? by tweedy54I have looked at the prices. Perhaps you need to take some time. You will pay at least 1000$ more for a mac than you will for a comparable PC. Thats if you can find a comparable PC as MACs hardware is far behind the power curve. If you would like examples, and you happen to know anything about specifications(which I seriously doubt as you are defending Macintosh) Compare the baseline Sager Np9262 against the supposed best notebook mac has to offer, the top of the line pro. Also, compare the prices.
Bottom line, if you buy a MAC, you get the privilege of wasting your money for an apple logo, mac osx, and countless program incompatibilities. You also get the indescribable joy of paying 1000$ more than I did for inferior hardware and to not have viruses and spyware(I paid a whopping 17.00 for antivirus/antispyware combo).
Also, just thought I would let you know that NOTHING in YOUR post is correct, FROM the OVERZEALOUS random CAPITALIZATION to your usage of the word "an". Also, countering points with not even a thimbleful of evidence to back you up just proves you to be yet another part of the Mac fan club that has little to no technical knowledge. Feel free to spread your overzealous, misinformed, Macintosh propaganda elsewhere.
Actual Facts
by mikedgolf40505 - 9/7/08 1:10 PM In reply to: Are You SERIOUS??????? by tweedy54Hey Tweedy to come to your defense, Apple hardware is very high quality. However the metalfan was right that Apple does cost at least $1,000 more for a comparable PC. Here is an actual breakdown I did on HP and Apple's sight today. Apple MacBook Pro, OSX Leopard, 17" High Resolution Glossy Display, NVIDIA 512 MB Video Card, Intel Duo Core 2.5G, 4G Ram, 200G 7200 RPM HD, IWork 08, and Apple Care Protection Plan for 3 years: $3,577.00 plus tax. HP DV7, Vista 64 bit Home Premium, 17" High Definition Bright View Display, NVIDIA 512 MB Video Card, Intel Duo Core 2.53G, 4G Ram, 320G 7200 RPM HD, Microsoft Office Student (3 programs), HP Webcam and Finger Print Reader, HP 3 Year Accidental Damage, Warranty and Protection Plan: $2,208.98. Folks those are the facts.
Would like to invite you to dictionary.com
by metalfan1982 - 9/7/08 2:38 PM In reply to: Actual Facts by mikedgolf40505Inferior can mean any number of things, but in the context that I used the word, it means less powerful. As for its actual build quality, it is the same as any other mid range PC, though I consider it worse as the things are much more difficult to work on. Usually not upgrade capable, or so much of a problem to do so you either pay a fortune for an apple retailer to do it...or like a company such as Apple plans, you buy a new one.
I have fixed them, so they do break. Rather often for a so called high end manufacturer.
My laptop, in case you were wondering, you cannot get a comparable specc from at all. You also failed to list the series of your video cards in your comment, there is a big difference between several of Nvidia's 512MB cards. In fact, the video card that apple offers in their top of the line Macbook pro is rather dated.
www.sagernotebook.com
For 3665 dollars you can build a laptop with a desktop Quad core q9650 in it,2 320Gb 7200 rpm drives in raid 0(a third non raid drive as well), 9800m GTX 1gig video card(SLI, aka dual video card edition to be released soon, apple has yet to release any SLI).
I seriously doubt Apple will ever compete at that level, and to say that they do or can is nothing less than an outright lie.
Mac or PC
by mikedgolf40505 - 9/7/08 3:07 PM In reply to: Would like to invite you to dictionary.com by metalfan1982I am by no means a Mac expert. My wife's MacBook Pro I am using right now is our first. The specs I gave are almost identical to the HP and MacBook I have. I simply do not see any difference in performance between the two. They are both very fast and have great looking screens. I also have observed that Leopard and Vista both have their good things and things that annoy me. Vista I think had gotten a bad rap. Vista worked well for me right out of the box. Very fast and very stable. I did have some very minor compatibility issues which I had with XP. The thing that Mac users do not like to talk about is that also had the same and more difficult issues with the MacBook Pro. I had to give away a $300 Lexmark printer that the driver would not work on the wireless printing. I bought an HP and it works great on both. The reasons that I am going to be buying a MacBook Pro when the new OS comes out several. First I am anxious to see what the new OS will do with a Quad Core processor. Supposedly that is going to be the main change in the system. I am also waiting for the Quad Cores to come out. I do like the idea of it being virus free; although I realize that could change. I also love the Time Machine feature in Leopard that backs up automatically in the background to my Time Capsule. I love the fact that you never hear the fan or hard drive. It also boots up a little quicker and shut downs a lot quicker. Since I do not customize my hardware that is not an issue for me. I love the backlit keyboard too. I wish the hard drive was bigger, granted I could have gotten a larger one but I wanted the 7200 RPM option. Too me is seems like a more solidly built machine. I will keep my Vista machine for work and I still love it as well.
thanks for not being another rabid mac Fanboy.
by metalfan1982 - 9/7/08 3:36 PM In reply to: Mac or PC by mikedgolf40505I will admit that a macbook is more solidly built than an HP, However a Sager is better built than either. That's one of the great things about PCs, you actually have options. Lots of different brands to choose from, some better than others, for completely different reasons.
Some, like HP, Offer very little in the way of customization, like a mac. Others, like Sager and Toshiba, offer much more. As for whether or not you see a performance difference, you most likely wouldn't due to the fact that they are rather close in specc. The only point I was making about performance is you can buy a much better PC than the highest end mac, for at the very least 1000$ less. This of course depends on how much research you are willing to do. Buying a PC means looking at a lot of different companies, buying a Mac you get only one.
It honestly boils down to 2 things, How much you are willing to pay for no viruses/spyware, and how much you do with your computer. I personally paid 17 dollars for an antivirus/spyware combo, and I do alot with my computer, not the least of which is gaming. I honestly have no other option than Vista/XP for 2 reasons, one is bang for buck(I have an incessant need to play on the highest settings and with the highest possible resolution) which is impossible with the current offerings from mac. I refuse to pay a premium price for a good looking system that can be outperformed by a mid-range PC. Also with mac 90% of my rather substantial software library is a no go unless I want to run bootcamp on the aforementioned inferior hardware.
If and when Mac is even close to the level of a high end PC I will give them a chance. Until then, viruses notwithstanding(got to be a moron for the most part to get those anyway) I will stick with PCs.
I have no love for microsoft. They just support the best hardware and the best and widest variety of software. Until Mac does this, or linux for that matter, I will give neither the time of day. Other than some screwing around from time to time.
Outdated Information
by kjkulp - 8/19/08 6:31 AM In reply to: Outdated Information by thesledmanthesledman needs tone it down a bit. My law school ALSO has the option to take exams via computer. That system does NOT work on a mac. Yes, you could run boot camp but then you have to buy XP just for one particular use! I very strongly considered a mac but ultimately decided on a lenovo. I'll go back and agree with most of the posts here that she needs to check with both her campus IT dept and the relevant school (within the university) that's she's planning to study. If mac is okay with them then I'd say go with the mac as there's much less "drama" that comes with mac ownership.
Not exactly...
by JMiguel - 8/16/08 9:45 AM In reply to: Windows or Macintosh Notebooks Can Work Well in College by lewisedgeI'd like to briefly comment:
I think it is 90% business using other OS than Mac OS, but it isn't all Windows!
If you get a Mac, you WILL NOT be isolated. Although you will have to pay for an office suite (between iWork and Office, I recommend the later). There are some compatibility issues between Safari (Mac's native internet browser) and some websites, there are a few simple workarounds, and trade-offs are minor.
Also, if you happen to need a PC based app that has no Mac equivalent, current Mac models come with Boot Camp preinstalled, meaning you can install a Windows OS (XP, Vista, etc.) and run your applications. I have a MacBook Pro, running Boot Camp and VMWare Fusion, and run windows whenever I need to use AutoCAD or MS Project. Using VMWare Fusion, I run windows as any other app whithin Mac OS... Killer!!!!
As for the learning curve...I'd say it all depends on how tech-oriented you are. I for one, where a loyal PC user for over 19 years. I got fed up with some issues regarding Microsoft's OS, and made the switch on February 2007. It took me two weeks to get the basics (shortcuts, OS features, etc.), and an extra two to get my mind in "Mac OS mode". However, I have a friend who is not so tech-oriented, and took him about two months to get used to Mac OS X...and his not going back!
The best feature for me regarding the use of Mac OS are basically three: 1) No Viruses, hence there's no need for an AntiVirus software; 2) No more blue screens of death. My MBP has crashed only once, due to using Microsoft Office 2004 (no problems so far with 2008 version); and 3) Extremely intiuitive user-friendly GUI.
Take a leap...you won't be disappointed.
MAC vs PC
by Jazznme - 8/16/08 12:01 PM In reply to: Not exactly... by JMiguelExcellent reply. I've always been a MAC user, and used to be frustrated with the lack of software. That has changed so much, and especially with OS X. Both of my daughters are PC huggers and I have not been able to convert, but they are starting to listen, and see. It really depends on your needs, and how current your college base is.It would concern me if the college I had chosen was not current with Vista and OS X.
What really keeps me bond to MAC, is their CS!! Since the advent of the "Apple Stores", OMG. I can not tell you the great CS I have received. And this is after my AppleCare expired. My computer is now 5 years old.
so I can only update to 10.4, Tiger. Can't wait til I can go with the faster, bigger, better processor of 10.5 and beyond. In the past, prior to OS 10, I was ready....couldn't wait to switch. But now, with OS X, those issues are solved and then some!!
Just go into an Apple Store. Take a Mac-user friend with some question or issue for the "geek" desk. Then go to Best Buy or where ever you select your PC and do the same with a PC issue.
I feel like I still have Mac.Care/AppleCare--for free now. And the ability of my Mac to read anything from a PC is so gratifying. No worries! I just wish I had 10.5 NOW!! But 10.4 is SO MUCH better than 10.3 I had previously.
No viruses for macs??? ... ok, whatever you say..
by nippywiffle - 8/16/08 12:15 PM In reply to: Not exactly... by JMiguelHah... I LOVE it when Mac users state so surely that their Mac "can't get viruses" and "virusscan software is not needed".
The reason there are very few viruses for mac is because they don't have the major market share across the world. Virus writers want to make headline news, taking down entire businesses, and ruining millions of home users' PCs all at once.
This is much easier to do with windows PCs, since so many more people use them right now.
SOMEDAY when Macs become even more common, someone will write the first major mac virus, and all those mac users with no anti-virus (or expired AV that came free with the mac 2 years ago) will be VERY upset... (Here's an example of a Mac OS X virus: http://us.mcafee.com/virusInfo/default.asp?id=description&virus_k=138608)
Note the line: "It also exploits a directory traversal vulnerability in Mac OS X to install and auto-start the worm on the infected machine".
... YES Apple Macs have vulnerabilities too.. just like windows.. just like linux... just like unix... every OS has them - the virus writers just choose to exploit the majority of what is out there!
I've used both mac and PCs by the way, PC is my choice for it's versatility - I can put any of thousands of pieces of hardware in a PC, I have no "apple says you cant do this" restrictions, and replacing a hard disk in a laptop is a 5 minute job, compared to a 15 PAGE job (example: http://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Mac/iBook-G4-14-Inch/Hard-Drive-Replacement/84/15/Page-1/Battery).
Over-all - I find whenever I try a mac (or any other OS, various linux distributions for example), that there's nothing I can't already do in windows, with much less hassle, and more compatability. If there was something I really needed to do, that only a mac would do.. then there's a reason to switch.
Finally - everyone seems to think "windows crashes all the time". No, it doesn't. In fact since I've used Windows XP (ever since the pre-release RC2 version) I've maybe only had it crash about twice.. and that was just due to bad drivers for hardware - not due to windows itself.
The reason macs are percieved as so much more stable, is because apple states "a mac must use this hardware only" and tests and tests on just this selection of hardware. They make their OS for their selection of allowed hardware, and so everything works well.
Windows on the other hand, has to handle literally millions of combinations of hardware that the end-user could possibly be using. This could range from cheap horrible hardware from unknown companies, with flaky drivers, to the best well known companies like nvidia and intel. It's amazing that windows is as stable as it is with this selection to work with.
One last thing... I also love it when mac users proclaim their hatred for windows.. but then boast to everyone about how their MAC can run windows.. and how they DO run it... even though they hate it.. apparently they need it still.
If we list that virus. We'll have to allow
by R. Proffitt - 8/16/08 12:19 PM
In reply to: No viruses for macs??? ... ok, whatever you say.. by nippywiffle
Any and all that are patched or not?
Today the only real exploits are where we get the user to help install the trojan. There's not any system short of XBox, PS2/3, Wii that you could not find a virus, trojan or such for.
As long as we allow people to install and run software, the risk is there.
Here's my one question:
-> Is it time to lock down all PCs and Macs to the point of a game console?
Bob
exactly
by nippywiffle - 8/16/08 12:23 PM In reply to: If we list that virus. We'll have to allow by R. Proffitt
Exactly... this is why the whole "mac is more secure than windows" argument can be thrown out.
Any software, from PCs to cell phones to ... anything with software and an internet connection can be exploited if someone wants to. It simply happens less often to software that's not out there as much.
I agree on vista however
by nippywiffle - 8/16/08 12:20 PM In reply to: No viruses for macs??? ... ok, whatever you say.. by nippywiffleJust to add to my post - I do agree with the majority of people - Vista is a horrible mess. I tried it when it was in Beta stages, I then tried the final release on 3 seperate occasions, and always went back to XP.
It seems like they just changed and moved stuff around for the sake of making it "different", not "better".
So, if you choose a windows based laptop, XP is probably the best choice... however, if you have never become used to a specific OS, then Vista I'm sure is just as easy to pick up on as any other OS that you're new to.
Reality break
by thesledman - 8/16/08 4:25 PM In reply to: No viruses for macs??? ... ok, whatever you say.. by nippywiffleAlthough you bring up some valid points regarding viruses I think you spreading FUD. Your apparent wish for Mac viruses by declaring "Someday" is laughable. Sure "Someday" Aliens may attack, "Someday" global warming will claim us all, melt the glaciers, cause cats to mate with dogs .... someday. We live in the now, and right now there are no viruses on the OS X platform. Sure in closed studies exploits have been found but nothing in the real world that anyone needs to be concerned with. When "Someday" occurs I'm sure the antivirus companies will jump at the chance of adding the millions of mac users to their software offerings. Until then I happily run my Mac at full speed without updating virus definitions and scanning drives slowing my computer down.
You did however bring up a great point. Because MOST computer users are not Tech Savvy, changing video cards, motherboards, audio cards etc is not a thing they plan on doing. They want a great computer the doesn't need to be opened constantly and have the local "wiz kid" figuring out how to make things work. The Mac platform is based around known, controlled hardware. This Guarantees stability and compatibility. We both share the opinion that this is the number one reason Windows has so many issues. I don't blame Microsoft, I blame hardware vendors for not writing or writing poor drivers.
If you wish to upgrade the hardware in a mac its much easier now. The article you linked to is for a computer that was offered over 5 years ago. The new line of macbook due in September promises to be even easier then ever.
Just an FYI. I have used windows since its inception. I was a very vocal anit-mac person for a number of years, OS X changed that. I currently own a Dell 9400 laptop running WINDOWS. Originally running XP upgraded to Vista when it came out. In October 07 I purchased an iMac for a desktop home computer. I have no hatred for windows, I actually find XP a fine OS, vista as well. But my time is valuable to me. I don't like fiddling with computers all day, hunting down drivers, debugging hardware installs etc. I look forward to upgrading my laptop to a Macbook Pro when the Dell needs to be replaced. And yes, like most switchers I originally I put XP on the iMac via bootcamp. I was nervous using a new os and wanted a backup plan. After 2 weeks of using the mac I removed windows and have not had a need for it since. It's surprising how many great applications there are for mac today. No computer can be all things to all people and in the event that you must use windows you can install it and run it natively in Mac OS X, why do make that sound like a bad thing, choice and flexibility is a good thing.
Viruses
by nippywiffle - 8/16/08 7:33 PM In reply to: Reality break by thesledmanGo here: http://www.viruslist.com/en/analysis?pubid=191968025
Read the 2nd paragraph under "introduction", and the "conclusion" at the end.
You obviously have no experience with viruses. I have managed enterprise-scale Anti-virus protection for 1000's of PCs for around 5 years now, and I know the false sense of security you can have (regardless of your OS), and that's WITH AV protection... I also know that out of nowhere, the next new "big" virus will hit, and you've got to be quick to protect yourself from it.
Running any computer is without AV protection is stupid - no matter what OS. A virus may be a simple annoyance, or it may make your computer unusable and destroy data. Don't risk it. MAC OS may be safer - it is, I totally agree - but it's not virus-proof.. and it could be tomorrow, the next day, or maybe in a few months.. or a year.. but it will happen sometime. At some point, someone IS going to attempt to make use of one of these OS X flaws, whether it's for fame, money.. whatever... it will happen. So go install some AV.
One other thing - as the website I linked to above states, it's not just the OS you need to worry about, people can exploit security holes in any of the software you're running... browser plugins, chat programs, E-mail clients.. anything.. and not all those are made by Apple - Sun Java for example (as mentioned in the site).
P.S
by nippywiffle - 8/16/08 7:40 PM In reply to: Viruses by nippywiffleP.S yes, we do have some macs (not many - but some), and yes I work with them, and have installed AV on the macs too. Of course, generally, any Anti-virus management suites made for business use do not support MAC OS, so I had to go to each of the macs and manually install it... the other few 1000's of PCs, I just clicked a button in the management console, and it installed it for me on every PC (remote manageability, and policy management - this is the reason most businesses use Windows).
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