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Community Newsletter: Q&A: MacBook or PC laptop for college?
- 8/22/08 4:21 PM
Techniess
by pr04 - 8/16/08 5:57 AM In reply to: MacBook or PC laptop for college? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
Hi - pretty much everything you need to know has been posted here. The only thing I'd add is that people who aren't very tech-minded tend to get on better with Macs, as they are generally easier to get to grips with. This is why the 'Macs are best' argument touted by Mac users winds many experienced PC users up - PC systems tend to be the choice for people who understand computers more, but it's also a system which requires more maintenance (and therefore know-how).
Also, whatever anyone says, Vista is an outstanding OS platform, and XP is still going strong, and you'll have no problems with either if you're willing to accept the learning curve. Mac's OS needs no real endorsement, it's pleasant on the eye, easy to use, more intuitive and generally very reliable (both systems crash, though, period).
Good luck with your choice.
hmm....
by fastboxster - 8/16/08 9:17 AM In reply to: Techniess by pr04I'm very tech minded and I really enjoy my MacBook Pro. I have about 5 working laptops at any given time and my MacBook Pro is the only Apple, yet I have elected to use it more than any other.
The big problem with Windows Vista is that you get really inconsistent results. A single driver not properly working will cause you a lot of performance loss and you probably won't realize you're not getting your money's worth (mostly with vendors like Sony who don't bother to sign drivers and won't work with Microsoft to update through Windows update, causing a lot of grief). My MacBook Pro outperforms my Sony AR390E (Vista) which has a 2 GHz Intel CPU by a huge factor (plus the Mac is just nicer with features that are impossible on Vista - like zoom to name one). In fact, I can even get better performance running my PC software on my Mac (using VMWare Fusion). Granted, this is most likely due to the fact that I selected a bad Sony model, but this is still significant considering you don't always know about how well a Vista notebook will work until after you buy it and get updates and service packs installed.
As far as being complicated, either platform can be either as "easy" or as complicated as you'd like. You can do complicated things on a Mac or keep it simple if you prefer. The user interface may be more "organized" on the Mac (which makes it easier to learn), but you have "advanced" tabs which give it the same capabilities as the Vista OS. If you buy a good brand (such as Dell) you'll likely not have any negative "Vista Experiences" as all of the hardware and driver issues are worked out by now. Most people complaining about Vista are mostly just mad because Nvidia didn't upgrade their drivers for their $500 video card (or they did and they were buggy as is the case with my Sony).
The whole "Mac is easier" thing is just an effective campaign though. They both are so incredibly similar (in complexity and capabilities). The biggest difference is that Apple sacrificed "compatibility" for capability. Microsoft is a bit clunkier but runs a lot more software with a lot of hardware options. Although in reality, anything you would want to do on a PC, you can now do it on a Mac, but the reverse is not necessarily true (yet).
Get the Mac. Anyone who says get the PC doesn't own a Mac.
What you want to do decides it
by markgrime - 8/16/08 6:35 AM In reply to: MacBook or PC laptop for college? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
Hi Wendee,
I have been a extreme power user and net admin for both and they both have big advantages over each other. Mac's are going to cost about a third more after all is said and done. Macs are easier for a beginner to pick up and use with no knowledge going in. Macs are more geared to make fun stuff easier like video and music but tend to have less software for business so if you're going for a business, CAD or science major you may lean more toward PC. There are software packages that allow you to run windows programs on Macs but there is a performance loss involved and also some incompatibility issues as well. Do not fall for complacent statements like "Macs are safe from viruses or spyware". Macs are actually more vulnerable because of that level of complacency in many Mac users. The only reason Macs don't experience these problems is simply because of market share.
If you buy a PC you may get more bang for your buck for the hardware but unless you order it special you will end up with box chock full of trial software, useless games, advertisements, and utilities that slow performance more than they help. So get one that has a clean install or be sure you get the Operating System on an installable disk so you can wipe out all of the junk and do a clean install yourself. Most software is easier to come by for PCs and is often less expensive. Vista looks and feels more like a Mac than any other Windows Operating System, but Microsoft never seems to get the "easy part" down all the way. Again because of market share it will be much easier to get service for PCs than Macs and Mac service is usually more expensive.
Wendee, this thread isn't helping you
by Phylte - 8/16/08 6:42 AM In reply to: MacBook or PC laptop for college? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
Hi Wendee,
I'm an actual grown-up who works in a technical business (biotech) and was such a PC holdout that I may have been the last person in the world to convert to Windows.
Now, I've read the thread and its packed with misinformation about Macs. Mostly about price. This time of year Apple offers unbelievable pricing deals on MacBooks for college students and includes (occasionally) printers and software. The software you will need (an Office Suite) will not kill your budget. You should be able to get a full Mac set-up with software (I'm not including complex analytic software here) for less than $1300.
All the positive things said about Macs are true. The negatives that were stated by PC users were ridiculous and mostly heresay. I know this because I'm a MAC convert. I'll also tell you that close friends who are forced to use PCs have spent literally hours and hours working on VISTA because of having to learn changes from the previous system.
If you have used a normal PC until now, you will have virtually (at max) a 1% learning curve with the Mac. Plus Apple offers free classes and depending on your local store, the tech staff can be very helpful.
I will further go on to say that most of the scientists I am friendly with and work with are now using Macs when given the choice, and this even includes computer scientists and physicists at MIT!!!!!!!!
As for checking with the IT department of your University, Mac has become so popular on campus that I would be stunned if they had anything to say about it.
One important caveat however since I am recommending that you do get a Mac and never look back, They tend to run very hot!!! A major complaint from every user of a MacBook. If using for an extended period of time, you should put a cake cooling rake under it (you know those slightly raised metal racks for cakes and cookies to cool) so air can circulate.
Just think, if you have a MacBook, every time your PC user friends start whining about viruses or problems in loading software, you can smile like a Cheshire cat. And by the way, the responder who said there is hardly any software for the Mac is a moron. Almost ALL software available today works on both platforms. He should learn how to read the small print.
I'm in Boston where every other person is a student and guess what the predominant type of computer is? Yup....! And that's why prices on Dell and HP have been falling like crazy. Since Apple introduced OS 10, there is no reason to stay in PC world. In fact, I have one of my PC notebooks networked to my Mac, so there! Talk about compatibility! You can network your PC desktop from home to your MacBook if you purchase one!!!!!!! A 9 year old can do it, honestly!!!
A Mac will never prevent you from running the most complex analytic software on it (I do!) and will keep a smile on your face (no more crashes!!!).
Good luck (and stop listening to these PC user kids who don't know anything about Macs!!!)
Phylte
Boston
Other issues?
by Andrew.McGlashan - 8/16/08 7:10 AM In reply to: Wendee, this thread isn't helping you by PhylteHi,
I've just read through the entire thread and am surprised to find a couple of points missing. Let me first start by saying that I have lived the PC world for a very long time as an IT professional. I have only dabbled with Macs over time since last using them up to my last year in High School back in 1983.
Now, I've bought a MacBook Pro.... at present it is mostly collecting dust as there are other priorities and I continue to use my Dell Insprion 9300 at this time.
Some things that I've found are:
1. If you do an install of Mac OS, you need to make sure that the normal user account that you use is a non-admin user; failure to do that might result in you being more susceptible to user privilege problems than has been suggested here.
2. It is a very trivial exercise to recover and change the admin password on Mac OS X ... again, I am an IT professional with relatively little Mac experience, but I found out just how easy it is to compromise a Mac machine and from a security perspective it is shocking to say the lease.
3. Before my purchase, I was warned of the cost of continual upgrades -- there have been a number of OS X versions in a relatively short time period; each upgrade has a significant cost to it if you want to remain up to date. The Windows world has far less upgrades of a nature that require monies for upgrade. Windows XP has been around for what seems like forever now and Vista is relatively very new. In the same time frame Mac OS X has had it's numerous upgrades (at a cost as mentioned).
4. My understanding is that Mac OS X is heavily based on a BSD version of "UNIX" and it also has influences from BeOS (particularly the Tiger version).
5. From a build perspective, I have found that 'bent' screens are the norm and because I didn't mention the problem to my supplier within a short time frame, then it simply becomes my problem.
6. Who would have thought that upgrading the HDD in a MacBook Pro would void your warranty? That is shameless! You can upgrade memory, but forget the internal hard drive, that is a job for a Mac shop only.
7. I understand that a range of Dell and HP machines have issues now with Nvidia graphics cards; it worries me that my MacBook Pro has the same card which may also be an issue (8600M I think).
8. Standard warranty in Australia is 1 year. Buying Apple Care costs a fortune compared to Dell's alternatives and the longest warranty on a Mac in Australia is 2 years! All my Dell machines have been covered for 3 full years and the extra warranty costs have been more than reasonable. My 9300 was even covered (warranty is expired now) for accidental damage or theft from a locked car or office. It is now harder to claim for theft unless you have a police report proving that damage was done to an office or the car these days due to an updated insurance policy, but that wasn't the case when I brought the 9300.
9. The keyboard is missing important and useful keys, although I accept with a little time I will learn the new keystroke alternatives. I hate it when so many machines I use all over the place are all different, but that is another matter. The PC keyboard has home, end, pgup, pgdn and more buttons.... these are handy and they have a good use.
From a security perspective, I would have to say that the MacBook is much more risk than a PC in terms of gaining 'normal' use of the machine with admin rights. However, from a file perspective, any reasonably modern Linux distro can be used to read and write files on NTFS (Windows most usual file system in use these days).
Don't get me wrong, I do like the MacBook, but it isn't everything I thought it would be and if it wasn't for the serious discount I got when I purchased it, I would have gotten another Dell machine.
Perhaps I will have more to say when I get around to using my MacBook Pro as a regular use machine, but I am not as encouraged as I think I should be at this stage.
Yes, please let us know when you actually "use" Macs BEFORE
by technewsjunkie - 8/16/08 3:06 PM In reply to: Other issues? by Andrew.McGlashan...before dissing them.
That would be helpful - before you recommended the PC instead, as you did.
I love it when people give "unbiased" opinions on things they don't use or do themselves.
There's a lot of that from the "unbiased" computer users who find reasons, usually outdated or just plain false, not to use Macs.
It's always interesting to see the people with little ("I've used Macs" once, on a island, for ten mintues) Mac experience tell others the problems with them.
I use both everyday.
Not recommending either, but still security concered!
by Andrew.McGlashan - 8/17/08 4:53 AM In reply to: Yes, please let us know when you actually "use" Macs BEFORE by technewsjunkieI haven't recommended one way or another, but I am astounded by the real lack of security of the Mac platform -- having been led to believe the Mac with a UNIX background should easily be more secure than a Window XP machine. My short time trying to make sure I get things right has shown me that there is a serious risk that needs to be considered; what I don't understand is that there must be a great number of Mac experts out there with much more Mac experience than myself and they don't seem concerned??? Very strange if you ask me.
I want to use my MBP, but I have my reservations... and as an IT professional whom uses machines for too many hours per day, well I need to be able to trust them to some extent -- particularly when I might have sensitive customer data on my machine. I have to take reasonable steps to ensure that data is safe -- one solution might be to use an encrypted Mac Disk image.
PC might be the Answer...
by rickyload12 - 8/16/08 7:14 AM In reply to: MacBook or PC laptop for college? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
Depending of what will be your major, you'll know what platform to use. If you're aiming Art (Graphic design, Audio/Video editing), you're better off with a MAC....for anything else go PC (Video Games, lot of softwares, and lot of compatible Hardware/devices regardless of the brand....). I've been using a PC for 3 years, and it's perfect: Acer-aspire3690. I bought it brand new at http://www.tigerdirect.com for $499, it comes with Windows XP Media Center SP2, has 1GB of Ram and 60GB of HD capacity,; I also bought a lot of gadgets from ebay, to name a few: MOGO Mouse bluetooth connection, OmniPass FingerPrint Reader, Zen Vision MP3 player,Logitech Web Cam, A MagicJack (don't pay anymore for cellphones or landline phones, checkout their website: www.magicjack.com)Lot of video Games,lot of Softwares,2 Portable Hard Drives of 160GB each, a USB Capture Device to convert and save analog video/audio (TV,DVD,VHS,Camcorder...just like Tivo) into digital format on my hard drives or to play any video game system that uses A/V cable(red,white,yellow cable) on my PC like: all the PS systems, all the Nintedo systems, and XBOX...etc...3/4 of my gadgets are not compatible with the MAC platform; with the budget you have you'll be able to get a very good PC and all these compatibles devices (and more), and you'll still have change....Think wisely...PC might be the answer for your career. Good Luck
RE: Answers for Wendee -- MacBook or PC laptop for college
by queengeek44 - 8/16/08 7:40 AM In reply to: MacBook or PC laptop for college? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
I would sell everything I could to ensue I could get a 15" Macbook with MS Office for Mac. If you an afford other options such as (a) Vmware.com's Fusion and a copy of Windows and (b) iWork '08 Suite you'll have everything you could possibly want.
PROs:
Mac's work with pretty much everything. I am a long-time Windows user and administrator and I used to spit at Macs...just the thought of having one. Now, I have a 17" MacBook Pro (MBP) and wouldn't trade it for the world. It picks up wireless networks quickly and easily and as you move around campus, that's helpful. With MS Office, you'll be sure you can have all your docs be compatible with anything on Campus (and the world). With your mac, you'll be able to access any email account you have with any provider...I have about 8 Gmail accounts plus hotmail and I access them all from Apple's mail program. I use the iphoto & iweb applications for gathering all my pics and sharing them on Apple's mobile.me web pages.
Another plus is you don't have to worry with you have enough memory or disk space as the Mac's typically have enough. If can afford the 15" MacBook Pro then you'll have power and durability that will last you for quite some time.
Cons:
I see only one major CON and that's primarily due to the budget limitations and that's Internet Explorer. There are just some applications that ONLY run with IE and although you can make Apple's default browser (Safari) emulate IE, it requires some geeky work and not suggested if you really don't know what you're doing. That is why I say you may need to run a copy of Windows somehow and that requires an application such as Apple's built-in Boot Camp, Parallel's Workstation for Mac or VmWare's Fusion but these add to the cost of the machine.
Windows on a Mac:
Let's see...the best thing I can say is go to an Apple Store (or Best Buy) and have some demo running Windows on Mac. Also search YouTube.com for "vmware" or "parallels". There's plenty of demo's. I do not like BootCamp because I don't want Windows taking up any extra disk space when I don't run Windows that much (from home). I prefer Vmware so I can run Windows on an external hard drive....almost like saving your pics on a thumb drive but it's just Windows.
Anyway, my suggestion would be to sell all that you don't need on Craigslist or Ebay but get a Mac. Better yet, wait until you get to school because you can get the Student discount prices.
mac or pc
by john9897 - 8/16/08 7:43 AM In reply to: MacBook or PC laptop for college? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
I am a retired teacher working with multimedia education programs.
I had used mac some before for video but never on a daily basis because it seemed that PC was a better price point for what you got.
About one year ago I purchased a mini to be able to iinteract with my partner who is mac based.
Let me put it this way, I now realize that over the last 20 years I have probably lost more than a year of time dealing with the maintenance requirements, crashes, incompatability issues etc,of PC operation. Nothing man made is immune to an occassional clitch but we're talking years of productive life vs hours.
As a long time windows person I don't have a lot of opinion on interface appearance placement of controls etc, but the mac just works better and no fooling with virus check slow downs constant microsoft nag messages etc. Also if you want to do video editing etc.
you will spend more than the price difference on software for the PC to get anywhere close to what will come with the Apple.
With your budget buy a Macbook, not pro off of the Apple refubrished site with super drive for approx 1100. You might beat this at your college bookstore.Try mac os first and if you really feal uncomfortable changing over get an OM copy of XP follow mac directions to install on your macbook. It has been my experence that XP actually runs better on mac than my PC.
Also keep in mind if you currently buy a PC it will probably come with Vista which is the worst thing I have ever had to contend with.
If you really can't spend over 1000 go to business sales for Dell, possibly HP as well, and order a PC with XP. Get the cheapest thing that has what you require. These are available because corporate tech support staff in many cases refuse to order computers with vista.
In conclusion the Apple will be a much better value* in the long run and you can spend your time doing things rather than learning how to fix your computer.
* Apple macbook will be worth a high % of original purchase price if you sell it where as PC resail value is a pittance of original investment.
More reasons to check with IT department
by jenniferrolson - 8/16/08 7:45 AM In reply to: MacBook or PC laptop for college? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
Another thing to keep in mind.... while many college campuses support both platforms, they may indirectly "favor" one or the other. How do you tell? One way is to check their IT department's site-licensed downloads. These are software programs that the university had purchased licenses for so that students, faculty, and staff can download copies of the program at no charge. At the Big-10 university I'm at, there are more programs available for Windows than Mac. Are any of these programs ones you'll definitely need in your program? Most of the statistical programs are not available for Mac. Not a problem if you're a music major, but if your program/classes rely on those heavily, you will have to visit a campus computer to use those programs.
Also, universities often have reduced prices for software you want to purchase through Microsoft's Personal Use Program (not restricted to PC - includes Office for Mac).
Many universities offer discounted purchases for a variety of manufacturers if you buy your computer through them (ours has discounts on Dell, HP, and Lenovo), so check that out also. Before I bought my Dell, I visited a Dell store and the rep told me to bring in the university's quote for the system I wanted and he promised to beat it. He was so shocked by the price I was offered, and had to admit that he couldn't match it.
Finally, whichever laptop you decide on, GET THE BEST WARRANTY POSSIBLE! College laptops are brutally abused, and I would be surprised if yours lasts all four years without needing repair or replacement.
Bottom line: do some significant research with your campus's IT department to see which will best meet your needs.
MACS CAN RUN WINDOWS
by technewsjunkie - 8/16/08 11:47 AM In reply to: More reasons to check with IT department by jenniferrolsonGot it?
I Would Consider Both Seriously
by z1221 - 8/16/08 7:55 AM In reply to: MacBook or PC laptop for college? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
It is somewhat of a tossup. I know by looking around at college computer requirements, most colleges require Macs if going into the photography, video, or music realm. If going into the business realm, the requirement is PC (most of the time). Remember, both can run Microsoft Office. If you still have a choice, and you want the Mac, and you need to run PC programs now and then, you have your good buddy boot camp that can help. I have owned PCs but recently I have considered a Mac. To me, Macs are more intuitive.
You're used to it.
by Qwerty Cake - 8/16/08 8:04 AM In reply to: MacBook or PC laptop for college? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
I can tell you this from experience. If you're used to PC, don't switch over to mac. It'll be a pain in the neck because everything is in different places, it does weird stuff like not letting you press the delete key to delete selected files, and not letting you remove a flash drive without ejecting it first. I'm not saying Mac is worse, but if you're already used to windows it takes a loooong time to get used to the differences.
College Laptop Mac or HP?
by mp187d3000 - 8/16/08 8:29 AM In reply to: MacBook or PC laptop for college? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
See the thing is I did some testing with a friend and it seems that HP laptops are beter than Macs, and the reason that the Mac is top is because it's easier to use everything is already setup for you so you don't have to do anything yourself. The thing is if you take the time an HP laptop is a litle better than handling files and storing anything than the mac the mac just makes it easier for the less electronic people of this economy. I would choose a HP, but it's up to you.
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