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Community Newsletter: Q&A: MacBook or PC laptop for college?
- 8/22/08 4:21 PM
Mac or PC
by coover - 8/8/08 9:48 PM In reply to: MacBook or PC laptop for college? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
Congratulations on your acceptance to a College or University. It's an exciting time for you.
My advice is svery simple. If you have already decided on a Major field of study, contact the department for that major at your new school and request their advice. They may require you use a particular software for their coursework. It may be Mac or it might be Windows software.
If you have not yet picked a course of study, you should contact the school to see if they have a recommendation. Usually you will get one.
If no recommendation is made, then you must decide. Both Macs and PCs will run most of the software that you will need in school. However, if you are interested in "artsy" things, a Mac is usually best. The Windows machines, however, will offer you the greaten number of software options for most things.
Microsoft and Apple have different approaches to software
by MartinCNagel - 8/8/08 10:10 PM In reply to: MacBook or PC laptop for college? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
After learning to program a couple of decades ago on an Apple (the II), now making my living programming in the Microsoft environment, and having teenage daughters with Apple products, it's become clear to me that there is a fundamental difference in approaches to writing software between Microsoft and Apple, and that difference affects your use of the machine. Based on your selected style, one may be better for you than the other.
In summary, are you comfortable configuring things and tweaking the settings, or do you just want the computer to work for you? Or, to put it in driving terms, do you prefer manual transmission because of the absolute control it gives you; or instead the ease of automatic, but the loss of control that comes with it?
It seems to me that Microsoft’s goal is to give you software with the capabilities to do absolutely anything and everything—their software is highly configurable. And they have a lot of software that works together well, if configured properly. Unfortunately, from a customer perspective, that means learning to configure it, sometimes in very complex ways. Their software doesn’t seem to make many assumptions about how you’ll use it.
Apple, on the other hand, puts a lot more work into thinking about the most common thing that anyone would want to do, and the software does a lot of the work for you, behind the scenes. When the Apple crowd says “it’s the user experience”, I think that they mean that the software just seems to know exactly what needs to be done, requires little (usually zero) configuration, and just does thing intelligently. This is because the effort went into figuring out how the software is getting used, and then doing those complex things behind the scenes.
Microsoft’s way allows them to build the features, figure out some of the usability features, let the folks figure out the rest, and then the M/S developers can crank out other capable software.
Apple’s way yields seemingly more intelligent software, but that additional work requires that their developers to put a lot more work into the software, and so they have few packages, but each one is more capable.
They are both totally valid approaches. They are both highly capable computers. But, they are very, very different usage models.
Regards,
Martin C. Nagel
You're asking the wrong question
by rbsjrx - 8/8/08 10:31 PM In reply to: MacBook or PC laptop for college? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
The question should be "MacBook or PC laptop, and, if PC, Windows or Linux?" My advice would be to buy a midrange generic notebook PC with Ubuntu Linux. First of all, it's less expensive than a Windows laptop and much less expensive than a MacBook. Aside from cost, it's faster and more reliable. What's more, there's very little software that you can't run on it. There are good Linux equivalents for just about every Windows program. And if there's not, you can use the Wine Windows emulator to run most Windows software.
I use Windows as a business necessity, but I'm gradually migrating to Linux. By the time I retire in a few years, I'll be completely weaned from Windows without ever having to buy a Vista machine. Currently, between my wife and I, we own two dedicated WinXP (MCE Pro) machines, two dedicated Linux (Ubuntu 8.04) machines, a dual-boot desktop and a dual-boot notebook. Windows is a constant source of frustration, while Linux is the Energizer Bunny of operating systems.
Right Question!
by quickrick - 8/15/08 8:38 PM In reply to: You're asking the wrong question by rbsjrxI'm up to 34 of 134 posts. I'm looking for the best answer to your question, Wendee. I have to tell you there's a lot of good answers and a lot of good information - I'm sure it will be difficult to sort it all out. The good part is that most posters are are trying to be objective and helpful with few opinionated posts.
rbsjrx hit the nail on the head...there are three choices. However, having said that, the best choice depends on a couple things that only you can decide. How much time will you put into learning to use a computer? I'm going to suggest that it will be more than you plan. Unless you are a computer major, you will need to focus on your studies - rather than on figuring out how to use a computer to complete your assignments.
Yes, Windows is the business sofware used in 90% of business PC's. However, to put that into perspective, the number of business's switching to Linux servers is now well over 60%. I am a PC user by force but everyone I know that knows both systems would rather be running a MAC, except for those advanced enough to be running Linux.
In addition, Windows is the primary target - not just for virus's, but trojans, worms, spyware...a lot of nasties that can make your life miserable. For that reason alone, either a Mac or, a PC running Linux is probably a better choice. The people that are telling you that you can run any Windows application on a Mac are correct. In addition, the folks that are telling you that there's nothing wrong with Windows Vista are NOT correct. For the foreseeable future, there is only one choice if you by a PC running Windows - the XP-Pro operating system. It's got enough 'experience' that they finally got the bugs out of it. Vista debugging will take years.
A Mac is very intuitive. If your school supports Macs and you don't want to spend your life learning how to work on computer problems, it's a good choice. If you're into creatively tweaking computers to get the most out of them then a PC with Linux is a good choice. If your cash strapped, then a PC with Windows XP-Pro is going to get you the most bang for the buck. In the business world Laptops cost just about twice as much as a PC for the same computing power. On the other hand, that price differential is not as great with the educational discount that I'm sure you can get.
Good Luck with school, work hard and have a great time.
QuickRick
5 Main Things To Keep In Mind.
by gcsri0tgirl - 8/8/08 10:36 PM In reply to: MacBook or PC laptop for college? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
I know that many people will give you a more detailed explanation as to the main differences between a Mac and PC including the specs and such. But I'm going to give you my personal experience and basic differences that might be useful to you.
1. Price.
- You said that you are on a budget. Well keep in mind that a Mac is much more expensive than a PC. When it comes to being a college student, money means a lot and this may play a major factor for you.
- Not only is the actual computer/laptop more expensive but Mac Applications and Programs are much more expensive in comparison to a PC. Sometimes a huge difference in price, maybe even by a hundred bucks. Depending on the program.
2. What will you be using it for?
- This is important because depending on your field of study this may play a role as to what type you may want to get. For example, are you involved in Art? Maybe in Graphic Design or something with high graphics? If so, then a Mac is something you must know. I myself am studying Graphic Design and in my classes all they have are Macintosh. No PCs. So you must be familiar with this format.
- If you need to have more control on what you do with your computer, lets say if you wish to add on or upgrade things yourself or just have more control in general with what you can do, PC is more easier or understandable in this setting. With a Mac, everything is set up and not really meant for you to manipulate and play with.
3. Macs are very user friendly.
- They will take some getting used to if you are very comfortable with a PC. At first it took me a while but once u get the hang of it, you will love it.
- To sum up the main idea of what a Mac is all about: Drag & Drop. Want to delete/uninstall an application/program? Drag it to the trash can, then drop it. Once u empty the trash, poof. It's gone. No need for an uninstall software.
4. Unlike a PC, a Mac is ready to be played with the minute you take it out of the box.
- Everything is installed and ready to go. Microsoft Office is already installed. As well as a bunch of other programs. With a PC you need to buy the programs, install them, and wait around for everything to be set. Not a Mac.
5. Viruses? Psh. None.
- If there are some out there that affects Macs, you hardly hear or know about it. It's very rare for a Mac to even get viruses in comparison to a PC. You can load an anti-virus program if you'd like. They sell them. But it's not a necessity.
There's other factors when it comes to comparing both a PC and a Mac but I think those 5 are the main ideas that come to mind and that played a big role in my decision. Especially #1 & 2.
So just think about what will you be using your laptop for. Just writing papers and the internet or more than just that? Can you really afford a laptop worth a grand or would you rather stick to something cheaper?
Analyze both. Think about it. And then you be the judge. Hopefully this will help you out a bit. Good luck 
One more thing...a bit of a warning actually: once you get used to a Mac, you're hooked. I know I am lol.
Laptop vs Macbook
by ViroCMN - 8/8/08 11:01 PM In reply to: MacBook or PC laptop for college? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
Well I have personal experience...
1. The mac looks great!!!! BUT so does most new notebooks or laptops
2. The mac is safer due to linux BUT u a student and all U have 2 do is unable wake on lan and wi-fi, mabe get a nat scanner if u paranoid.
3. Quick issues, Mac there are no quick solutions but a notebook is much easier to troubleshoot due to it been better known.
4. If it comes with vista remove it! Ask for a laptop with XP service pack 2. Get a few hot fixes for the messenger and so on and u ready to rock.
5. Keep your windows firewall on and put AVG on, its free and its the best in my opinion. Just this week I was called out to see to a laptop with other antivirus software (Top rated) on and it was riddled with viruses and I installed avg and it found them all. Awesome hey!!!
Wrong
by bigbear639 - 8/16/08 6:35 AM In reply to: Laptop vs Macbook by ViroCMNYou can no longer remove Vista from a Vista equiped Computer and replace it with a older OS like XP. MSFT no longer allow this. MAC is way to expensive for your Dad to spend money on. You would have to take the Computer to an Apple Store to have it Serviced. The Warranty is very short.
Why are there fewer complaints about Apple Computers? Easy to figure that out. less than 10% of Computers Worldwide are Apple Macs. So it stands to reason that there will be fewer complaints on the sheer volume of Windows it will look like there are more complaints. Figure the actual percentage and it isn't that great.
Chevy and Ford will get a lot more complaints than a Mercedes or Porsche. A lot more of them are sold than these Luxury Cars.
Also Apple does not permit using non Apple Parts in their Computers. Yet did not Steve Jobs have his beginings in tinkering and building his first Computers in his Garage. What is he and Apple Affraid of?
Actually, you're "wrong" bigbear639
by JasonDMX2 - 8/16/08 11:53 AM In reply to: Wrong by bigbear639You can remove vista from anything you wish as long as you know how to do it. Please do not spread misinformation.
wrong wrong
by nippywiffle - 8/16/08 1:56 PM In reply to: Wrong by bigbear639Yeah... Vista (or ANY OS) Can be removed from ANY computer.. no-one has any control over that.
However, you make good, common sense statements about the percentage of macs/pcs out there, and therefore the reduced complaints about MACS.
Or Maybe not...
by Jkirk3279 - 8/18/08 2:16 PM In reply to: Wrong by bigbear639“Why are there fewer complaints about Apple Computers? Easy to figure that out. less than 10% of Computers Worldwide are Apple Macs. So it stands to reason that there will be fewer complaints "
I don't suppose you considered that there are fewer complaints about Apple computers because... oh, I dunno.... Apple's tighter integration between software and hardware makes for a better product?
Consider: it's a frickin' miracle that Microsoft can produce an OS with 90% effective backwards compatibility with old software, and STILL have it work on PC's from multiple vendors?
Not that I respect Microsoft. Nor would I throw them a rope if they were drowning, unless there was an anchor attached.
But Apple has it a lot easier. They have tight control over what goes into both the hardware and the software.
On the downside, when they do make a mistake there's no excuse.
But consider: I tried to use a little pocket-size scanner I own that used to work under Win98 when I installed XP. Nope. Doesn't work anymore. Driver's out of date.
And I wasn't even surprised, really.
But if I'd plugged in any USB device to my old B&W G3, and then my MacBook Pro, and it failed to work on the newer Mac, I'd be shocked.
College Laptop
by dminott - 8/8/08 11:11 PM In reply to: MacBook or PC laptop for college? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
Since you are already familiar with a PC, I see no reason to switch. Both Macs and PCs essentially run the same software.
We jsy got our daughter an refurbed HP laptop that works beautifully,
and at about half the cost you are being allocated!
Check out the more reputable on-line outlets, like Buy.com, Outpost.com, TigerDirect.com, etc. There are many great deals available. Consider the screen size and weight, especially if you will be "lugging" it around. Try out some models at a local store to see how they look abd feel. Make sure that you get a security lock, as laptops disappear regularly, on campus. Check for insurance...your folk's Homeowner's Insurance might cover your electronics. Consider an automated backup service (most schools are now offering a service for between $4-$6 month.)
If you plan on doing thesis work, or something similar, you might want to make sure that the laptop has extended security. The HP we got has a built-in fingerprint reader and disk encryption capability.
Of course, check the school for software discounts and inverstigate Microsoft's new DreamSpark initiative!
Good luck,
Dave
MAC's and PC's
by XSYLUS - 8/9/08 12:54 AM In reply to: MacBook or PC laptop for college? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
Hi Wendee, I noticed you didn't mention what your major is going to be. In my opinion for more graphically based studies such as photography, graphic design, animation, interior design, etc a Mac would be better. I've never used a Mac in depth but I know that Pixar studios animators use Mac's primarily because they do not buckle under pressure as much as PC (or more specifically Windows) does.
I personally prefer PC laptops, I just recently purchased a Lenovo ThinkPad T61p and I love it. While most laptops come with some version of Windows; most likely VISTA, it is possible to get Mac like efficiency from a PC by getting one that supports or even comes with Linux. Since you are used to using Windows transitioning to a Mac or to Linux would be a bit of a learning curve but some versions of Linux, such as Xubuntu are just as user friendly as Windows and Mac's alike. Something many computer geeks might tell you is that MAC OS-X is technically Linux with a modified shell or user interface.
Bottomline, while I have seen Mac's run more stable than PC's I've seen lesser equipped PC's outperform Mac's. The ultimate decision comes down to your preference and usage. I am currently taking online college courses and my T61p handles my work load without flinching plus it allows me to study at the local library and other hotspots or in a quiet room in my house.
One final note, many manufacture websites, like Lenovo.com allow you to customize your laptop which means you can include all the features you want and trim out all of the features you don't. I customized my T61p and it came to a little over your mentioned budget, but being a computer technician and studying computer information systems in college I wanted a lot of features. Also, at the time that I purchased my laptop Lenovo had a major discount going on with 26% off right off the bat and when I poked around I found a 10% off coupon that I was able to combine with that deal. Without all of those incentives I wouldn't have been able to afford the laptop I got. So check around and see what deals you can find.
I know that all this information is a bit scattered but I hope something from this post will be of use to you in making your decision. Best of luck.
Mac Vs PC...
by Wolfie2k5 - 8/9/08 3:02 AM In reply to: MacBook or PC laptop for college? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
Wendee,
There are a couple of ways to look at the situation. The simple truth is - even tho the Mac and PC guys will try to sell you otherwise - a Mac is pretty much the same as a PC under the skin. Both use the same basic hardware - Intel chips, the same kinds of memory, hard drives, etc... There are a few minor differences in the motherboard design I won't bore you with. Let's just say those difference exist to keep the Mac OS on a Mac and not let it be installed easily on a PC. Beyond that, they're pretty much 6 of one and half a dozen of the other. You can actually install Windows on a Mac using Boot Camp so you can dual boot into either OS. Of course, there's a gotcha... And that gotcha would be the price. Mac laptops tend to be more expensive and if you want to run Windows on it, you have to buy a licensed copy which is even more expense.
The real difference between the two is in the operating system. For what it's worth - there aren't that many things you can't do on either one. Their capabilities are, for the most part equal. All of the tasks you've mentioned are easily doable on both systems. Yes, there IS a bit of a learning curve transitioning from Windows to OSX. The controls to close or minimize apps are on the left side instead of the right corner. It's kind of like driving in England or Japan after driving in the US. The basic skills are there, you just have to get used to doing things on the wrong side of the road. In which case, you need to be asking yourself - do you really want the extra distraction of having to figure out how to make things work or do you want to dive into your courses and do your best at them? My take - go with what you know.
So let's look at cost. Macbooks start around $1,100. Not sure how much of a discount you would get through Apple so that price will likely be different. However, based on the base retail price, that doesn't leave you with much room for software and peripherals (like a printer) you may need. For a system that has similar specifications, most Windows PC vendors generally charge much less. A similarly spec'ed laptop might run you $600 - $800 - leaving you with more money for extra stuff you will likely want. That's even after figuring in costs for things like an antivirus app with a year's updates included. And since we're well into Back To School season, other vendors are likely to be throwing in bonus goodies and price cuts as well.
One note about getting a Windows laptop - if possible get one with the bare Windows installation. Dell's are pretty good about keeping the crapware to a minimum. Crapware being defined as useless trialware and other apps that you'll never use nor would want to. It also has a tendency to slow down an otherwise fast computer to a crawl. Dell's Vostro line is remarkably decent, free of junk and priced for a budget.
And a note about the Mac... You'll likely want an antivirus app for the Mac as well. Given their sudden surge in popularity, and the revelations on their security issues, Macs are NOT immune to potential malware nor phishing nor other things that can cause you problems. Apple doesn't take security as seriously as Microsoft. They rely on "security by obscurity" - meaning they assume no one would bother writing a hack to gain access to one of their computers because no one uses them. Since they've become more popular, expect that party to be over.
So then the $64,000 question is what do you want to do with the laptop? Do you want to get one that will get the job done, is comfortable to use and you can get good grades with? Or do you want something that's akin to a status symbol that isn't really all that comfortable, is overpriced and will possibly interfere with your studies?
In this day and age, I don't see Macs being all that much the rage in college/universities. The economy is down. People will generally go for what gets them the most bang for the least buck.
One more thing to consider... When you do get out of school and look for a job, having skills with a PC generally trump those with skills on a Mac.
So. In review...
1.) Look for a laptop that offers the most features for the money.
2.) Don't buy into hype from EITHER side! Look at what you're getting.
3.) Look for deals. Talk to the people at HP, Dell, etc... See if they can't sweeten the pot. Do NOT be afraid to find out about discounts.
3a.) Don't be afraid to use the competition's best deal as a bargaining tool. If company X says they can get you a laptop for $Y, see if company Z can match or beat the price.
4.) DO NOT get suckered in by the first guy you talk to. Do some real research first.
5.) Make sure you get the crapware free Windows installation if you go that route. Make sure you tell the sales people you don't want that stuff cluttering up your computer.
macbook or pc laptop
by steelie2007 - 8/9/08 3:17 AM In reply to: MacBook or PC laptop for college? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
hi wendee, i am also starting college this september, altho i am in uk so not sure whether its the same kind of colege anyway i couldnt help you much as far as pc vs. macbook as i know more about one than the other so i would be biased; however i wanted to tell you simply that on the apple site it claims that if you buy a new macbook for college you get a free ipod! i don't know if that will interest you...but i thought it would be nice to have one or sell it if you've already got one? hehe anyway i hope this helps it probably doesnt answer your question but just so as you know!
regards, Ben
Go with a Windows-based machine from a major manufacturer...
by William Sommerwerck - 8/9/08 3:38 AM In reply to: MacBook or PC laptop for college? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
I've been running Windows for almost 20 years. I've even stuck with Windows 2000 Pro, because it works well.
But I used to recommend the Macintosh to my non-technical friends, because I'd bought into Apple's claim that the Mac required less effort on the part of the user. (You'll notice I didn't say its software was easier to use.) Which, to be honest, is probably true.
Several things changed my mind, though. One was stories about hardware failures (hard drives in particular), which should not have occurred in the pricier Macintoshes. Another was a friend telling me that the operating system had collapsed and had to be reinstalled.
The straw that broke the camel's back, however, was the "I'm a Mac" commercials. Rather than rationally explaining the real (or perceived) advantages of the Macinosh operating system, Apple created commercials that comprise mostly half-truths, gross misreprentations, and outright lies. One of the worst of these is the cleverly worded implication that the Macintosh operating system is inherently immune from attack. It isn't. Not by a long shot. (Macintosh software has as many weak spots as Windows software, possibly even more.)
And then there's the commercials' emphasis on the "cool factor". A computer is a machine. Who cares whether it's "cool" or not, if it gets the job done?
In my opinion, Apple doesn't deserve your support, because its advertising is grossly dishonest.
One other point... Regardless of which computer you purchase, you <I><B>MUST</B></I> immediately put in place a system for periodically backing up your data (and preferably the full hard drive) at least once a week. Hardware <I>can</I> and <I>will</I> fail (and Macintosh hardware seems to fail slightly more often).
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