Camcorders: HD camcorders are semi-worthless
HD camcorders are semi-worthless
by intrepiddd - 6/16/08 11:08 AMI would like to buy an HD camcorder but I have learned it is not like the good old days when I could take the tape out of my camcorder and save it for watching directly on my TV later.
It seems there is no straight forward way to watch HD camcorder video on my TV except to connect the camcorder to the TV. So how do I send HD videos in the mail to the grandparents like I used to do?
Am I missing something? Is there some PC software that can record HD videos onto a disk that I can watch on my TV? Are there some HD players (ie BlueRay) that can record my camcorder video to a disk?
It seems all this HD Camcorder hoopla is a big bust as far as I'm concerened. If I can't easily save my HD videos for TV replay, what the heck good is it? It seems to me HD camcorders are semi-useless. What am I missing?
First of all...
by whizkid454 - 6/16/08 2:29 PM In reply to: HD camcorders are semi-worthless by intrepidddA good definition of your term of HD is required. Do you mean hard disk drive (HDD) camcorders or high definition (HD) camcorders?
Neither are worthless. HD video is very crisp and creates a whole new watching experience. It is much better than SD video. HDD camcorders are helpful in situations where you will need to continuously record for many hours at a time or if you are doing some casual daytime shooting and don't need the video for any important purpose afterwards. Perhaps just to show some friends some footage of the kids or sports? Whatever it may be. Yes, you can connect a HDD camcorder to any DVD recorder and transfer the video to a DVD.
HD on DVD?
by intrepiddd - 6/16/08 4:06 PM In reply to: HD camcorders are semi-worthless by intrepidddwhizkid454 says "Yes, you can connect a HDD camcorder to any DVD recorder and transfer the video to a DVD."
Are you sure I can put HD (i.e. 1020i/p) on a plain old DVD?
If not, what good is an HD camcorder? I might as well continue to use my old camcorder.
Please clarify your acronyms...
by whizkid454 - 6/16/08 4:35 PM In reply to: HD on DVD? by intrepidddHD = High Definition
HDD = Hard Disk Drive
Using the conventional burning method, no you cannot burn HD (High def) video to a normal DVD. In certain circumstances, for example, AVCHD, you can put that HD video on a standard DVD and play it on a BluRay player and you will see the HD (High def) video. Yes, there are HD HDD camcorders available.
When I said you can transfer HDD (hard disk drive) video to a standard DVD, I meant to add standard definition video. There are many ways you can do this: 1) use a computer DVD burner 2) use Sony's DVDirect or 3) use a DVD recorder (with analog inputs) you may have hooked up to your TV to record shows.
The benefit of HD camcorders is that you get much better picture quality. There are many possible ways of storing and sharing that HD video. I already explained a few.
No need to define terms
by intrepiddd - 6/16/08 8:05 PM In reply to: HD camcorders are semi-worthless by intrepidddI never mentioned HDD so why would you be confuse my use of HD with HDD? I am only concerned with HD (high definition video i.e. 1020i/p). I don't care how the camera does it.
You said: "When I said you can transfer HDD (hard disk drive) video to a standard DVD, I meant to add standard definition video."
This seems to be saying the same thing I have been saying - There is no way to create HD videos on a disk - only standard definition.
So again I say why would anyone buy a HD camcorder if you cannot create HD video on a disk? What am I missing?
Now I see your aim...
by whizkid454 - 6/17/08 5:23 AM In reply to: No need to define terms by intrepidddSorry about that. Was a little confused on what you actually wanted to have happen with said HD video. An example of a camcorder that records HD video to a DVD disc is the Sony HDR-UX20. This disc is a miniature, standard definition disc with HD video on it; the same disc that is used on any other DVD camcorder. However, to pop out that DVD and play it would require a BluRay player which I assume not many people have that yet.
So, your options are limited with HD, for now. Once BluRay gets going, I'm pretty sure AVCHD will grow with it. Once we start seeing BluRay in the $100 burner and $2 disc stage, people will adopt. For now, HD is a good idea if you're not going to be sending out the videos on disc and you would just like to keep them on your computer and keep them there until BluRay becomes a better supported format.
You might want to note that high def video is 1080i or p. It
by Kiddpeat - 6/17/08 5:42 AM In reply to: No need to define terms by intrepidddis not 1020i/p. You should note that SD video is considerably better than the VHS video you seemed to be referring to in your original post. High def is better than that as has been explained.
There is more than one
by boya84 - 6/18/08 3:58 PM In reply to: No need to define terms by intrepidddmethod... as pointed out earlier, it does not need to be high definition on a "normal" single layer or double layer disc. Even video captured as high definition but downsampled to standard definition is very crisp as compared to the standard definition-only days.
But since we do not know your environment - nor that of the grandparents to which you refer - it is a bit of a challenge.
As I recall "the old days" of sharing video with others, I would connect the camcorder to a VHS deck and copy the contents of the camcorder video to the tape in the deck. I don't remember sending the one and only original copy of video anywhere. No, or very limited, editing. Now that we can edit, add transitions, credits, special effects and audio, home movies can be lots more fun - whether high definition or standard definition.
There are different ways to get different formats of video to others.
1) You *could* do the same today as in the "old days" - There are lots of VHS decks still available. The copy will not be in high definition. Can you keep using your existing camcorder? Yes.
2) You *could* get a DVD recorder. Essentially the same as the VHS copy, but on disc.
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=dvd+recorder&x=0&y=0
The copy will not be in high definition. Can you keep using your existing camcorder? Yes.
Both of these options are for standard definition only, so I expect you are not interested... but for completeness, I included them.
3) You *could* get a BluRay burner
http://www.lacie.com/us/products/range.htm?id=10058
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=bluray+burner&x=0&y=0
This means the person with whom you are sharing has a method to play what you burn
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=bluray+player&x=0&y=0
and it is properly connected to a HDTV. The copy will be in high definition only if you recorded in high definition and output as high definition to the BluRay disc. A high definition camcorder would be needed.
4) You *could* save the edited high definition video files back to the camcorder - if the camcorder is miniDV tape based - and send that miniDV tape to the person with whom you are sharing... In order for them to view the video, use of HDV miniDV tape based camcorder or a HDV deck properly connected to a HDTV is required. A high definition camcorder would be needed to capture HDV.
5) You *could* save the edited high definition video files as video saved at "full quality" and burn to a data DVD as a data file - not as a video (VOB or VRO) file. Because high definition video uses so much room, only a few minutes will fit on a double sided (8.5 gig) "normal" DVD. This disc would then be played back using a computer with a current (fast) CPU and an optical drive capable of reading the DVD data disc. The data file would likely be QuickTime or .AVI. If the recipient has an AppleTV or other "media center" device capable of high definition file use, that would normally be connected to a HDTV... Or if the computer with the appropriate CPU and optical drive is connected via VGA (my Panasonic plasma has a VGA port), then it can be the playback computer.
5a) Rather than using a disc, you *could* copy the data file to a memory card or other external storage device. A double layer DVD can hold up to 8.5 gig; but there are memory cards and thumb drives
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=16+gb&x=0&y=0
that can hold more. Or even an external drive would work - and those come in terabyte sizes. When the folks are done watching, they just send the card/drive back for the next videos to be copied.
6) You *could* upload the finished project video to sites like vimeo.com and computer playback at 720p high definition is possible. Connectivity of the computer to a HDTV (as indicated above in example 4) would be helpful. In addition to this, you *could* have your own 1080i/p storage site for sharing HDV for streaming or download in case you can't find one.
7) You *could* upload the finished project video to sites like YouSendIt.com and have the recipient download the video for playback on computer (perhaps with connectivity to a HDTV)... If the recipient does not live closeby, this would likely be much faster than mailing a disc - if speed is a requirement.
So... you CAN create high definition video on a disc - but perhaps there is no need to. Just as in the past, where the recipient needed compatible equipment, they would need compatible equipment today. Optical discs are not the only method for sharing video; DVDs can be used a data storage devices - not just for sticking in a DVD for playback.
hd are worthless indeed
by moncandido - 6/17/08 3:03 AM In reply to: HD camcorders are semi-worthless by intrepidddthe standard tape(mini dv) is still the king. forget about hd equipments. carry a portable mini light with battery pack, tripod. once you made the videos use these softwares to exclude you from the rest: mediachance editstudio pro 6, tmpegenc 4 express, tmpegDVD 3 author, tmpeg mpeg editor 3 and tmpeg movie style. download the divx bundle/divx author. although there are redundancy of applications the feeling of owning and creating high quality videos for the web and TV viewing is a pleasure. no headaches.
This looks like the latest attempt to market crap on cnet.
by Kiddpeat - 6/17/08 5:38 AM In reply to: hd are worthless indeed by moncandidoA listing of unknown, but related products many of which are named tmpeg. Temporary Egg perhaps?
HD Camcorders
by Duchossois - 6/18/08 11:46 AM In reply to: This looks like the latest attempt to market crap on cnet. by KiddpeatI started looking about two weeks ago and found very little help at the two major stores near me. All the suppliers of HD camcorders seem to be creating a confused market. Not one could tell me just what I would need to go to a HD camcorder. I thought maybe some help would come from software people, Adobe said without Photoshop 3 (expensive)it would be foolish to buy an HD at this time Others said I would need a Blue Ray burner to make a disc. I think I'm gone to wait it out and when someone realizes that they aren't selling they will make the changes. I choose to edit my videos.
you must live under a rock
by Pepe7 - 8/28/08 7:58 AM In reply to: This looks like the latest attempt to market crap on cnet. by KiddpeatYou mean to tell me you haven't heard of TMPEG products? They are very handy, to say the least.
http://www.tmpgenc.net/en/index.html
My high definition video is
by boya84 - 6/18/08 8:17 PM In reply to: hd are worthless indeed by moncandidoin HDV format on miniDV tape.
If you are referring to hard drive based camcorders, they would be identified as "HDD". And I do not agree with your assessment. The data file storage media almost does not matter. If the camcorder manufacturers would use DV or HDV format it would not matter if miniDV tape, HDD, flash memory or DVD. But they don't.
My camcorders use miniDV tape and they store DV and HDV. And if I want, I can add an external hard drive from FireStore. If I do that, they become HDD camcorders. The difference is, the external drives from FireStore save n DV and HDV format - like miniDV tape.
And since I do all my editing on Apple Macintoshes, I don't have "headaches" editing DV or HDV or any other video...
Why Own High Def Camera when backup is so cumbersome?
by jimhaleyscomet - 6/20/08 2:44 AM In reply to: HD camcorders are semi-worthless by intrepidddYour original statement is that "HD camcorders are semi-worthless" probably stems from because making backups and sharing HD video is cumbersome. Sharing standard def video is not anymore cumbersome than before. While cumbersome backup and sharing is a pain, there is good reason to shoot HD video.
Actually, the only reason for a consumer to shoot in HD today is that your precious video original will be very high quality. Later as blue ray disc prices fall ($25 each no!) then you can make copies of HD video for sending to the grandparents and backups. However, nothing prevents you now from making standard definition DVD's of HD originals to send to the parents.
Personally, I am leaning toward getting another HD Mini-DV camcorder (about $700) to make HD Mini-DV backups of my originals. I would also use it as my TV's HD "player" so I do not put alot of hours on my $4000 professional quality camcorder. Purchase another camcorder for the grandparents ($700) and they could watch video in HD as well.
I can't seem to get the video into / out of my iMac without dropping the quality but I do make many standard definition DVD's to send to the grandparents.
Jim Haley
interesting statement you made...
by boya84 - 6/20/08 5:45 AM In reply to: Why Own High Def Camera when backup is so cumbersome? by jimhaleyscomet"I can't seem to get the video into / out of my iMac without dropping the quality"
What kind of camcorder are you using?
This should not be an issue with a miniDV tape based high definition camcorder. iMovieHD and FinalCut will import DV and HDV (you may need to add the Apple Intermediate Codec for HDV) and both applications easily export to miniDV (DV and HDV) camcorders.
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