Buzz Out Loud Lounge: Silent Vista-loving majority?
You forgot one very important feature!
by -spektyr- - 5/10/08 10:31 AM In reply to: Why Ubuntu Linux will surpass Windows on the desktop by chappejwYou neglected to mention that Linux doesn't have built security holes for the deliberate privacy violations that are becoming SOP for people who are actually supposed to be 'public servants'.
Early 90's?
by FVDP - 5/8/08 6:09 AM In reply to: My take on Vista by aMUSICsiteThanks for your interesting comments, but I have a little quibble: I f you bought your first PC in the early 90's you cannot possibly have bought one of the "first 286's" (secondhand maybe?), since IBM itself launched its first AT (model 571) in 1984 and already discontinued this one in... 1987!
If only Bill had made it's OS's open ones as IBM did with its machines (remember, at first IBM saw no future in Personal Computers), MS might also have gotten pushed out of the marketplace by now (where do you buy an IBM PC nowadays except, again, a secondhand one?). And maybe we would have the "Perfect Invisible" OS to run. But Bill was a smart enough businessman not to do that (well his DOS was open to... IBM in the early days: remember the ill-fated version 4). Remember also that good Ol' Bill never invented anything but (almost) always took the right marketing (not technical) decisions (but that's another topic I'm ready to discuss here...).
Anyway, as you clearly point out, it' the installed base that makes MS OS's such strong market contenders. On the other hand the very same base is the real obstacle to Vista's acceptance. Has anyone ever figured out what it costs companies (especially smaller ones) to upgrade to new OS's or even mainstream "office" applications, in terms of hardware purchases, testing and upgrading costs, support, not to forget end-users' training? Office 2007 f.ex. maybe a nicely bannered application, but it often takes even seasoned users far too much time and efforts to find back their sheep.
Don't you think I'm opposed to progress though. I will always applaud to real innovations in terms of ease of use and execution speed when they mean a real leap forward. Otherwise, as long as you get the job done... (which is what really matters, isn't it?). I know there is soo much money involved in this ever (slowly) evolving IT world but have all these pundits ever tried to figure out how much efficiency end-users have really gained since, f.ex. Office 3.0 under Windows 3.1? And that was 16 (yes, you read well: 16!) years ago. Not to mention Office 4.0 (Word 6.0, XL 4.0, PPT 3.0!) under Windows for Workgroups 3.11 (one of the stablest Windows ever, even if stiil running under MS-DOS) and that was not even 1 1/2 years later. That's when I indeed applauded... And to go futher back in nostalgia, I saw some remarquable stuff produced with... WP 5.1 (of still unrivalled printing precision). Remember that lively book urging us to use WP 5.1 for... Desktop Publishing. And its wide success sufficiently proved that it indeed could be done!
When my budget will allow for it, there will be a new machine on my desk and it will run Vista. I'm really convinced that the biggest part of Vista's troubles stem from "upgrading" existing installations (even with sufficient hardware strenght). I know it's a hell of a job to reformat your disk, install the OS from scratch and all the applications. But, believe me, this approach works wonders. Not so long ago, I was confronted with a PC that, out of the blue, bluntly refused ever to access Internet any more with all the other applications running as usual. I could only figure out a problem with the Ethernet card, but this kept testing "OK". All available solutions failed. "Reparing" Windows from the original disk failed as well (by the way, I once "repaired" another PC where a faltering XP showed an even worse behaviour afterwards). After format (preferably the long one) and an XP install, Internet automatically sprung back into life and this good old Pentium III ran smoothlier and apparently faster than ever before.
Early Gatesification
by -spektyr- - 5/10/08 11:07 AM In reply to: Early 90's? by FVDP"Remember also that good Ol' Bill never invented anything..."
You got THAT right! LOL
"...but (almost) always took the right marketing (not technical) decisions"
Right marketing decisions for who? Judging by what he did to us with Windows 95(Plug and Pray) and X-Box 360(Many bad right out of the box and no refunds) it's obvious his decisions aren't focused on what's right for US. 
"Has anyone ever figured out what it costs companies (especially smaller ones) to upgrade to new OS's or even mainstream "office" applications, in terms of hardware purchases, testing and upgrading costs, support, not to forget end-users' training?"
That doesn't really matter. It's all tax deductable.
"Workgroups 3.11 (one of the stablest Windows ever, even if stiil running under MS-DOS)"
I have 3 words for this one, "General Protection Fault"
As far as 'reparing' a Windows installation goes, in most cases a complete clean reinstallation is the smartest thing to do. Trying to let Windows repare itself doesn't fix the many registry bugs that can spring up without warning rendering hardware or software inoperative.
My hope is that in the future major hardware and software companies will start taking Linux seriously and start producing compatible products so we can take full advantage of its stability and speed. 
Poser!
by geeksplosion - 5/8/08 7:36 AM In reply to: My take on Vista by aMUSICsiteSeriously, 'teckie'? Clearly not.
I had nothing but problems with MAC OS
by aMUSICsite - 5/8/08 8:52 AM In reply to: My take on Vista by aMUSICsiteI love Windows XP because it's very fast as compared to MAC OS. Software is written for Intel Processors because PC's have greater than 94% of the market and because of this MAC’s are a bit slower because they must go through an "interpreter" to get the MAC CPU Processor "pin outs" to match that of an Intel CPU and this is why MAC’s are slow and I also had major problems with MAC OS. To find out about Apple's OS problems, and Apple has many problems, go to Apple's Support page, search through it and read about all of their various problems. As for Vista-I love it. It has to be the most user friendly OS I have ever used and it does do far more than any other OS that I have tried. Now Window’s Operating Systems such as Windows XP and Vista does support so much hardware, far more than Apple, that it will take time for various hardware (printers, flat bed scanners, video cards, sound cards, etc.) to send their drivers to Microsoft or to get their Vista drivers on CD's for consumers to use but many “manufactures” have already done what is needed but some have not. PC’s still remain, the fastest and most stable in the “market” and the best for “games”.
No, Macs Aren't Slow...
by ZTBELL21 - 5/8/08 11:20 AM In reply to: I had nothing but problems with MAC OS by aMUSICsiteI've owned my MacBook Pro for three months and have seen several OS packages that are slower than OS X 10.5.2. Also, I've had fewer problems with my mac than I've had with any Windows version except for XP. Having used Windows 1, 3.1, 95, 98, NT4, Me, 2000 Advanced Server, XP and Vista, Mac System 7, Mac OS 8, Mac OS 9 and various versions of Mac OS X, I've pretty much come full circle and realized that Apple has excellent software that runs as fast as Vista SP1 on identical hardware- and looks just as nice.
As for Vista, I used that while it was in Beta and for 3 months at the end of last year on a Toshiba laptop. For a low end machine, the laptop was great, but I could clearly tell Vista need a lot more RAM than what a typical, off-the-shelf low end laptop has on board. The Mac that I replaced it with has 2GB RAM and is capable of running both VISTA and OS X flawlessly, often faster than some other well-known computers.
I just had a thought about buying a copy of Vista and installing it on my Mac last night... just because I like Vista's Aero Glass and Media Center features, though Mac's Quartz Extreme and Front Row work very well. I really think Vista, when installed cleanly and correctly, can work very well on a brand new computer, but most of the OEMs put so much CRAP on their machines that Vista can't always run to it's full potential. And that's what I dislike about any computer purchased from a department store.
Not been particularly silent and not loving it
by fbbbb - 5/3/08 6:55 AM In reply to: Silent Vista-loving majority? by chustarBut I can't see anything particularly wrong with the operating system per se. It does what it does pretty well for me.
NVidia has been the biggest cause of problems for me, especially when I started looking into adopting it in mid-'07. All the blue screens I've ever encountered under Vista (and I haven't encountered any since late '07) have been NVidia-caused. The OS itself has been rock solid for me in 32-bit and 64-bit versions since I made the decision to adopt it on all of my desktops/laptops since the tail end of '07, and any remaining issues with games, sleep, etc is still - sigh - down to misbehaving NVidia drivers.
However, back in '06 being unsure about the forthcoming Vista I made the switch to OS X - which turned out to be a first-class disaster on so many levels, but since I'm locked in with certain apps I still retain current hardware for both OS X and of course Vista. Mainly I don't have any gripes with OS X either, but rather more the hardware it runs on.
Linux, even Ubuntu is definitely not yet ready for prime time.
To me though, the better of the two prime-time OS's is Vista at the moment as it has better stability on comparable hardware than OS X, and has more features that I actually want / need to use which are implemented more solidly. It is a relatively heavyweight OS, but I am not evaluating legacy hardware.
I can take or leave the eye candy of either platform, although in the consistent looks stakes I have to give the prize to OS X. I also don't require the level of idiot-proofing that OS X has especially when hobbling me in terms of the availability and flexibility of both domestic, entertainment and professional applications. (Apple fanatics who decry this statement - 'Pro' apps mean more than media creation, numbnuts)
Vista was/is clearly not without problems... but as far as I think the way Vista has been presented online, it does somewhat highlight the disproportionate weight that the blogosphere gives to people who are popular but who have no clue what they're talking about while billing themselves tech pundits.
The blogosphere, and especially the combination of the blog with social networking has had some positive traits, but in levelling the standard of 'reporting' at the lowest common denominator I think it has seriously compromised the ability of individuals to distinguish superior / sophisticated marketing vs superior products in reality - even to the extent of affecting many bona fide journalists who work at institutions like CNET, who find it perhaps easier to tow the 'bottom-feeder' line than do more journalism. The company with the slickest marketing wins in a climate like this.
Good Post
by PressAnyKey - 5/3/08 10:20 AM In reply to: Not been particularly silent and not loving it by fbbbbI agree with most of your points although I cannot comment on the assertion that Vista is running better than OSX. I think Apple's closed ecosystem gives OSX an inherent advantage.
I agree that Ubuntu isn't ready for prime time.... Unless you build a box for a user that just needs the basics (email, word processing, Internet, etc.) and doesn't need to tweak it. The latest distro is a good "all in one" solution.
Nvidia was a mjor source of heartache for me also. Drivers were substandard and still are IMHO. They certainly haven't done Vista any favors.
I am torn over the reporting of Vista. MS certainly deserves a kick in the teeth for the way they have rolled out and managed Vista in the last year and a half. And if the tech pundits go over the top a bit maybe it will knock MS out of their comfort zone so they make significant changes to the way they do business.
I also know that people can become stubborn and never change their opinion once it's made. If MS fixed all the issues with Vista tomorrow (never gonna happen) there will still be people who will launch into a hissy fit at the mention of the word "Vista."
On the other hand the current situation is ideal in an odd sort of way. MS is working (hopefully) to improve the performance of Vista, so I get updates. But if the market share stays below 20% then I have an added layer of security because it's not worth a hackers time to try to compromise my computer.
You are writing mostly about the past
by carpe67 - 5/8/08 1:03 AM In reply to: Not been particularly silent and not loving it by fbbbbI have GeForce 8600GT - no problems for the last 5 months (that's when I bought it)
Vista is fast, stable, responsive and good looking with tons of little touches built in (ones I had to import into my XP)
Everybody must understand that Vista is a like a premium fuel- will do wonders but only with premium engine.
My advise to everybody: want Vista? get yourself good hardware, can't afford it? stick to XP and do not moan than your old PC Citation canot make over 50 Mph even though you poured expensive gas.
Ubuntu - totally agree, their LAMP is the easiest to install, setup by far. There might be a bit of a fuss for beginner to downgrade MySQL to 4 (5 is a standard), but it is nothing major.
OS X - can't compare Vista to it - never tried it. But that little apple looks lovely though;)
Vista is not ready for Prime Time
by chappejw - 5/8/08 1:51 AM In reply to: Not been particularly silent and not loving it by fbbbbActually, Ubuntu is ready for prime time and is offered as an OEM operating sytem in laptops and desktops in several countries now. Since the operating system is free of charge, this lowers your total cost of ownership.
Not only this, but using Ubuntu means you don't have to purchase softwares like
Micosoft Office - $300
Photoshop - $100
Antivirus (1 yr) - $70
Firewall (1yr) - $50
Just using Ubuntu in consideration of these programs would save you more than $500.!!! You might even use those savings to invest in some new kick ass video card, hard drive, router or any combination of upgrades.
I recently installed Ubuntu 8.04 Hardy Heron on my new Toshiba Laptop and every single feature worked perfectly from blue tooth to power management to all my function keys and touchpad hot keys. I'd say this is Prime Time.!
When I tryed out all features on my laptop with Vista up to date, my blue tooth did not work, and upgrading the driver broke its functionality. Vista is not ready for Prime Time and it's slow as hell compared to Ubuntu..!
Wow.... quite the spin, do you think we are that clueless?
by VinylMD - 5/8/08 5:56 AM In reply to: Vista is not ready for Prime Time by chappejwI mean, $70 for an antivirus program? If you are looking to "save money" for upgrades, then why not use AVG? It's free (apparently a factor in choosing your OS) and it's also solid. Even when I was paying for an AV program, I never paid $70. It doesn't take much time to research and find out that AVG will offer solid protection without the snake-oil cost of the fear-mongering Norton group. My Vista hasn't yet given me any problems... I agree that it's probably not a good idea to dump it into a machine that was created without Vista in mind. I DON'T like how people like HP made it difficult to use certain printers that worked perfect in XP (Example, HP Laserjet 1012). But that's a mfg problem, not a Vista problem. Just my $.02
Yes, I do think you are that clueless...
by chappejw - 5/9/08 2:11 AM In reply to: Wow.... quite the spin, do you think we are that clueless? by VinylMDYes, millions of people DO spend upwards of $69.95 to $99.95 a pop for McAfee, Norton, and other antivirus programs for Windows. Then they turn around and spend even more on Microsoft Office, and other software that also has free versions. Yes, these people are often clueless, and live in a world of confusion because anyone with any common sense would install AVG and be done with it. It's free, fast and detects all the same crap that the others do, but.. yes BUT... running an antivirus program is just one more bail of hay to weigh down your wagon. All those poor suckers out there including you my friend, are being sidelined every single time they do a virus scan, spyware scan, adware scan, registry cleanup..!! Does your system run so fast when it has to open up every single consecutive file on the hard drive and scan it for up to 240,000 different virus definitions? Umm! Hell NO..!! It is as slow as crap..!! Hard drive accesses are expensive bottlenecks in computing. In comparison to the 98 % of all other operating systems that require no antivirus, this is a major downfall. Firewalls? Windows only starting including a firewall in Windows XP in ~2002. Unix, Linux, and Mac have had firewalls built in since the beginnings of Unix.
That HP printer you were talking about is fully supported under Linux, see here... http://hplip.sourceforge.net/
and officially here...
http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/softwareCategory?product=306509&lc=en&cc=us&dlc=en
Security is a huge issue, always has been and always will. Nowadays, the fastest growing crime is identity theft. Made possible by spyware such as keyloggers, viruses, security vulnerabilities, and network vulnerabilities among many which thrive on the Windows operating systems including Vista.
People always say, Windows only seems insecure because it's the most popular, so hackers will write exploits for it since it's the majority. This is untrue. Windows is inherently flawed in that people run it in administrator mode, leaving the entire system open for attack. Windows also allows all 65536 ports to be repeatedly scanned continuously over and over and over for holes, exploits, and vulnerabilities by hackers, where Mac, Unix, and Linux apply some intelligence and begin delaying responses to scans after only 3 or 4 attempts at a port scan. This means that hacker that is waiting for you to login to application blah or your banking website can sit patiently waiting for you to click, unlocking your personal information, perhaps even your credit card.
Basically the only real chance you have at fixing your Windows security properly is to get an engineering job at Microsoft and patch it yourself, other than that you have to wait and hear about the security threats by a third party security company long after the damage has been done.
Here is an example of what I'm talking about reported today, may 9th..!!
"FDoS-Tatol will use ARP spoofing on the local LAN. It will sniff for HTTP replies and inject a JS script into the body of the HTML page. The script embeds an IFrame which points to a remote site hosting malicious scripts."
- http://secunia.com/virus_information/46908/fdos-tatol/
Ubuntu vs Windows Vista vs Mac OSX
Which OS do you think is most secure these days? You might be surprised...
http://www.linux.com/feature/131059
Ubuntu is ready for Prime Time...
by fbbbb - 5/8/08 11:02 AM In reply to: Vista is not ready for Prime Time by chappejw... on out-of-date hardware.
Try the same experience on stuff that's out right now - and you'll go back to Vista with a sigh of relief.
Also, you're not factoring in the fact that Office, Photoshop, etc are actually superior products compared to what is available in Open Source. File-format compatibility does not mean feature parity.
Superannuated hardware, catch-up alternatives, etc - I don't doubt that you'll have a better experience than Vista if you're impoverished. My argument is for the now.
Nope
by Dango517 - 5/8/08 2:02 PM In reply to: Vista is not ready for Prime Time by chappejwOxygen Office
Gimp Shop
Vista has a fully functioning Firewall within it.
Anti-virus $30.00-free. If you buy, buy from mid season to mid season.
If you use Oxygen office and Gimp Shop be prepared to find the kitchen sink in one of them. Bloat, bloat, bloat. This goes for the OS as well. If you can get it to download from the web at all.
http://marketshare.hitslink.com/report.aspx?qprid=10
Note: The data on this link changes, this is not a static archival link.
lol
by Boomstickedition - 5/11/08 10:33 AM In reply to: Vista is not ready for Prime Time by chappejwI'm glad I got my Microsoft Office Ultimate 2007 for $60 when they had the Ultimatesteal promotion! Go go student discounts!!! =)
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