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Community Newsletter: Q&A: Please clarify the digital TV (DTV) transition in 2009
- 5/16/08 3:56 PM
Two different years for ending two different services
by cvmoreau - 5/16/08 7:22 PM In reply to: re: Please Clarify next year or 2012? by gmclamThe over-the-air analog signals will go dark on February 17, 2009. If you have cable, satellite service, or an OTA digital/analog converter you'll still be able to use your old analog sets.
It is my understanding that the cable companies can continue to transmit analog signals on the cable until 2012. However, they are not required to do so, and most want you to rent their boxes, so we may soon see an end to being able to hook up a "cable ready" set directly to the cable, without a box, and still have some programming. Nevertheless, even after 2012, I'm sure the boxes furnished by the cableco's will have an analog output for older TVs.
So, as long as they continue to work you should have several ways to get programming to the older sets. Admittedly, though, the newer digital widescreen sets are certainly the way to go for those who can afford the purchase. And, rest assured, their prices will continue to drop -- especially after 2009 when dual tuners are no longer necessary.
How can they regulate the cable signal?
by bdsolomon - 5/16/08 10:20 PM In reply to: Two different years for ending two different services by cvmoreauIt's over THEIR pipe, not over the common airwaves. So how can they be required to drop analog signals?
I can understand that they may not WANT to, but I can't understand requiring it.
A slight correction
by cvmoreau - 5/17/08 4:07 PM In reply to: How can they regulate the cable signal? by bdsolomonActually, bdsolomen, the FCC has tremendous control over cable. The companies must operate within FCC rules.
I will correct myself, however. The FCC has recently mandated that cable companies must carry the local channels in analog format until 2012. Of course, they say "local" channels so what will actually be available if connected directly to an analog set could be very limited in the near future. Here's a link:
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070912-fcc-to-cable-you-must-support-analog-tvs-until-2012.html
SO, what is the 2012 mandate?
by bdsolomon - 5/17/08 7:48 PM In reply to: A slight correction by cvmoreauAre they mandating that they keep analog until 2012 and then do what they want, or are they mandating that they drop analog after 2012?
And if they are mandating keeping analog, does that mean over the cable, or by providing a STB if needed? (And does that STB have to be free?)
Because as I've mentioned elsewhere, FIOS is dropping analog over the cable real soon now, but they are providing free STBs for the nondigital hookups now. And telling me that it's a federal mandate, separate from the OTA mandate.
I also slightly correct myself. I can understand if the government mandates something that they MUST carrry (analog signals), but can't understand if they mandate that they are NOT ALLOWED to transmit analog over their own cables, after 2012.
Can you clarify?
by wordmavin - 5/19/08 6:31 AM In reply to: A slight correction by cvmoreauOkay,
Assuming one can get reception, after Feb 2009, what exactly can a consumer "get" on TV without paying the cable folks?
Thanks in advance,
Jane
Sorry, Jane
by cvmoreau - 5/19/08 6:51 AM In reply to: Can you clarify? by wordmavinIt looks like your message got buried within that whole discussion about cable and 2012, and you're wanting to know what you'll have if you don't subscribe to cable.
After February, 2009, if you have a digital TV, or a digital to analog STB on your old set, you'll find the over-the-air selection better than what you're now seeing on the analog channels. First of all, there will be more channels, since each local station can broadcast several sub-channels within their allocated space. How many varies, but it appears to be up to 6 standard definition channels. Right now, my local PBS station broadcasts one high definition channel and three standard definition channels 24 hours a day, within their digital channel assignment. (The channels are indicated as 26.1, 26.2, 26.3, etc.)
Also the picture will be sharp, clear and without ghosts. With digital broadcasts, either you get an excellent picture, or you don't get one, at all. Instead of ghosts, however, multipath problems can cause the picture to disappear and reappear, which is really more frustrating than ghosts. So, you may need to upgrade to a better antenna, and don't count on a set of indoor "rabbit ears" doing the job, unless you're right near the station's transmitter.
Thanks
by wordmavin - 5/19/08 11:30 AM In reply to: Sorry, Jane by cvmoreauThanks for answering!
Jane
What can you get on broadcast dtv
by DinoSpyder - 5/20/08 12:30 PM In reply to: Can you clarify? by wordmavinRight now in the Philadelphia there are about 20 exclusively digital stations I can get. They're only over-the-air and not carried by the cable or satellite companies. I expect it's the same in other cities. Check your local listings. When there are no analog transmissions eating up bandwidth the number of stations will probably go up. I think the maximum is 204.
re: 2 different dates
by gmclam - 5/19/08 12:20 AM In reply to: Two different years for ending two different services by cvmoreau> The over-the-air analog signals will go dark on February 17, 2009. If you have cable, satellite service, or an OTA digital/analog converter you'll still be able to use your old analog sets.
I need to make a point here - the ATSC converters we are talking about here have NO PURPOSE for those who get their signals solely from CABLE. Not now, not in 2009 and not in 2012. ATSC is the "digital protocol" used for over-the-air TV in the USA. Cable companies use a different protocol (QAM).
I'm pretty sure that if you're PAYING a cable company to receive their signals, either the signals will be compatible with your TV or they will provide (rent) you a box to perform any necessary conversions.
Excellent answer
by cvmoreau - 5/19/08 5:57 AM In reply to: re: 2 different dates by gmclamI think that answer just about nails it. What will, or will not, happen to cable between now and 2012 is still quite uncertain. According to the FCC regulation, if the cableco drops analog then they have to proved an STB with an analog out for at least the local channels (but, as stated, this is NOT the same as over-the-air digital to analog conversion, so the STB for one won't work for the other).
It may be that if a cable company wanted to continue to carry some analog signals after 2012 they could do so. However, I can't imagine that any will, since those signals take up so much bandwidth. Why should they carry one analog program in place of six digital ones, when they can just furnish the customer with an STB to convert to analog at home?
2012 just confuses things
by KeithHarmon - 5/19/08 6:31 AM In reply to: Excellent answer by cvmoreauWho knows what the cable companies will try to do between now and then? This is a discussion to be started in 2011, as the plan today is different from what the plan that will be there a few years from now. I know Cox is pushing their digital boxes - more and more content not available w/o one. Even with a digital/HDTV tuner and a cable card, they don't provide onscreen guide, PPV, some channels, etc. If they don't shut off analog completely, I would expect fewer and fewer analog channels from them, since each reduction in an analog channel makes several (six?) digital channels available, maybe more if they compress and degrade the quality of the signal (as apparently Comcast has already done).
digital cable
by gmclam - 5/19/08 3:24 PM In reply to: Two different years for ending two different services by cvmoreau> It is my understanding that the cable companies can continue to transmit analog signals on the cable until 2012.
It is unlikely that more than a few channels will continue to be sent in analog form over cable in the near future. Certainly cable companies will be providing "analog" (NTSC) signals to older TVs, but that will be done by their cable boxes, not by actually sending an analog signal down the line.
For those wondering about QAM and being able to receive "open" channels w/o the need for any cable converter at all, there is another change in the works - "switched digital".
----
The cable industry said Monday that it's going to start offering adapters for TiVo Inc.'s high-definition digital video recorders with cable card slots so customers can resurrect channels that disappear when companies use new technology to save bandwidth.
Cable operators, especially Time Warner Cable Inc. and Cox Communications Inc., are aggressively rolling out switched-digital video technology.
Switched-digital technology frees up space for more channels by sending only those each customer selects, instead of streaming all channels to all customers. But customers need the adapter to be able to tell the cable system which channels they want to watch.
Pricing for the adapters or the ability to use them hasn't been determined, but TiVo said it doesn't expect cable to charge for the adapters. Cable cards currently used by TiVo Series3, TiVo HD DVRs and other devices allow only one-way communication -- from cable operator to viewer.
The new adapters will enable limited two-way interaction. TiVo units send other types of messages through the Internet or over phone lines, but not over cable. The adapters will work on other one-way digital cable-ready devices too, such as HD TV sets that use cable cards to access channels instead of a set-top box.
Adapters are to be offered over the next few months by Comcast Corp., Time Warner, Cox, Cablevision Systems Corp. and others in markets that use switched digital.
2009/2012
by kcrlshell - 5/17/08 6:22 AM In reply to: Please Clarify next year or 2012? by RobertResearchJust to clarify...the 2009 date is for Over the Air broadcasts. Your friend will fall in that category. The 2012 date is for cable subscribers - but there is a lot up in the air about what will be happening between 2009 and 2012 for cable people. This forum really needs to set up separate threads for OTA and cable.
Answer for Chuck
by gnotellaluvr - 5/2/08 6:57 PM In reply to: Please clarify the digital TV (DTV) transition in 2009 by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
Chuck, all the TV sets in your house will need converter boxes on them for them to continue working. The low income people in poverty stricken America are out of luck because the signam that alot of them use with their rabbit ear antennas will no longer work. The goverment is sending out coupons to help offset the cost but lets be real. If they are already having trouble feeding their families are they really going to be able to afford the box.
To DarkHawke
by MarkFlax - 5/10/08 1:30 AM
In reply to: Answer for Chuck by gnotellaluvr
I removed your post.
Referring to "low income people in poverty stricken America" in the way you did wasn't necessary, and is not called for.
Let's keep it decent, huh?
Mark
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