Community Newsletter: Q&A: PC video memory confusion: Dedicated, shared, discrete, oh my!
- 4/25/08 11:06 AM
Hi Sheldon...
by linadragon - 4/13/08 1:09 PM In reply to: PC video memory confusion: Dedicated, shared, discrete, oh my! by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
Integrated cards will pull off memory from your normal memory quite often and have a bit of their own they can get up to 128 mb shared may mean it pulls from diff locations... I do not recommend any integrated chips if you plan on playing anything heavy... Shared by definition means that the Integrated GPU chip might have some Vram and then the rest is taken off your memory essentially...
The direct definition is... Using part of main memory for the display circuit's frame buffers, which temporarily hold the rendered content being sent to the screen. Shared memory is used in PCs that have the display circuit built into the motherboard rather than housed on a separate, more costly display adapter card.
This is usually a bad move because it pulls away from system memory your applications could of used.... Discrete memory on the other hand is all taken from the system memory directly.... This is the worst possible move if you plan on doing anything intensive but it can lower costs compared to shared....
Dedicated means that all the memory used is directly on the Graphics Card itself and isnt taken at all from system memory. This is the most advisable thing. A midrange card such as the Geforce 9600 GT from Nvidia would be my personal reccomendation... This will be great fro gaming, or anything else you wish to use it for. This will also give you a system that can play some newer stuff if you decide to get into it more and a card powerful enough to kick photo editing apps in their butts 
.
The 9600 GT's are a great card for under a 200 dollar price tag and you can get an 8600 GTS even cheaper (this will be optimal as well...) I would stick with the current mid range card market on the Nvidia side personally because ATI has always kind of lagged behind in performance.. If you can snag an Nforce chipset motherboard with it that is an optimal build .
It also varies on what your budget is what would ba a good computer build for you as without that cant really say what is best.... Either way go with something that has Dedicated Video memory and not discrete or shared you will be all that much happier for it!
Video Memory
by geofbrewer - 4/13/08 4:53 PM In reply to: PC video memory confusion: Dedicated, shared, discrete, oh my! by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
Confusion doth abound. Don't feel bad. Typically, integrated video means the video processor resides on the system board. Memory can be shared, i.e. a portion of system memory is set aside for video. If this is the case, then your total memory available for other things is smaller, which may or may not cause problems.
Discrete memory can mean that there is seperate video memory however it is not on a seperate card, some laptops for instance. Typically, if you get large numbers associated with video memory it is a seperate video card in a tower. The card would have a video processor on board as well. And a cooling fan and seperate power. And so on and so forth.
The big question is, "What are you going to be doing with the system?" "What about the future?"
Do your apps require full motion video with effects? Think games. Gamers don't think of their software as an application, but it is.
Internet surfing? Using for school? Photo rendering? CAD? Basically, is the background static with a few things going on in the foreground or is the screen alive?
I wish you well.
basic pc for graphic designers
by niksbc - 4/13/08 11:13 PM In reply to: PC video memory confusion: Dedicated, shared, discrete, oh my! by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
go for assembled system as you can get pc of your choice.as per description given below:
1) intel core 2 duo processor 2.2ghz or 2.33ghz
2) 2gb ddr2 ram
3) 320gb sata hardrive
4) intel 945 motherboard
5) xfx-geforce graphic card-8600GT
6) cool ventilated cabinet
7) 19''or 22''lcd-tft samsung for viewing quality graphic.
8) wireless kbb & mouse as its comfortable & convinent.
9) and basic input peripherals as per your choice & xp-sp2 as o.s
this basic pc comes around at Rs 40000/- or 870$
for further details pls call me on - 91-9819464884 or e-mail me at blazecomputers@hotmail.com. thank you........
basic pc for graphic designers
by manojsm - 4/21/08 1:47 AM In reply to: basic pc for graphic designers by niksbcPl. see that the RAM workas better in dual channel, i.e. instead of one 2GB RAM, go for two 1GB RAMs as it performs better in dual channel(provided your motherboard supports it.
For any HDD pl. go for the more buffer(say 16MB)
While using any graphic card pl. go for the best power supply as it consumes more power.
Don't put more drives alll the time as it will shre the power supply whether you use it or not.
Dedicated versus Integrated
by Gene Taylor - 4/14/08 4:31 AM In reply to: PC video memory confusion: Dedicated, shared, discrete, oh my! by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
For the purpose of rendering images on your PC, dedicated memory is actually located on the video card itself. Integrated memory means that the video card is actually using up some of the memory that is on your motherboard instead.
If you had 1 gig of memory for your motherboard, integrated memory would actually take for example, 256 megs of that away from the motherboard. That reduces the memory your computer needs to do others things that process spreadsheets, perform word processing, play games, etc. Dedicated memory only takes card of the video card it is on. That makes for faster and better graphics, and leaves the motherboard memory to perform its functions just for the motherboard.
Thanks,
Answer
by flashmx2004 - 4/14/08 6:21 AM In reply to: PC video memory confusion: Dedicated, shared, discrete, oh my! by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
Shared memory - the video processor uses the computer's RAM to store information. Computer RAM is much slower than Video RAM. Shared memory also usually means your computer's processor processes the graphics as well, meaning less processor power for your programs.
Dedicated/Discrete - as the name suggests, there is Video RAM dedicated to storing data only for graphics only. It doesn't use the computer's RAM, so it is much quicker. Being discrete, it won't hurt your processor and RAM.
Shared VRAM is cheap power, but you don't get far if you're an intensive gamer or use a big screen or run 3D apps like BRYCE. Dedicated/Discrete is better for both short run and long run, so I recommend you get a graphics card.
Video Memory
by tpjazm - 4/14/08 6:50 AM In reply to: PC video memory confusion: Dedicated, shared, discrete, oh my! by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
The main difference is shared (intergrated) versus separate (AGP or PCI [e] bus) cards. A shared memory cards shares the memory from your computer. A separate video card has it's own memory. If you are into multimedia a separate video card (PCI express is the latest) will give you better video, 3d rendering, etc. Discreet is a method of doing that. Giving you 3d rendering, improving your graphics and game play, etc.
Dedicated Video Ram (Try to get a video card)
by k4m1l0 - 4/14/08 8:07 AM In reply to: PC video memory confusion: Dedicated, shared, discrete, oh my! by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
As far as I know, is always better to get a pc with a dedicated video card (dedicated ram) even if it is a low end video card model, performance and quality are far better than the integrated video chipset onboard. Try to find a video card that has features like HDVI and s-video if you plan to use your PC with a LCD/Plasma TV, even with a monitor that supports high def. Check the ATI/Nvidia low-mid end Video card series for example, they are really cheap right now if you are not planning to do some hardcore gaming.
Video Memory
by BMH280 - 4/14/08 8:28 AM In reply to: PC video memory confusion: Dedicated, shared, discrete, oh my! by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
That isn't a dumb question at all. The difference integrated and discreet, is that integrated will use a portion of the RAM on your computer for the video memory. So if you have a smaller amount of RAM (512 or less) you will see difference in your computer's performance. While Discreet is when it has its own memory chip and doesn't use your computer's ram (i.e. onboard memory chip or add-in video card.) discreet will generally offer you better performance on your computer. and an add-in card will the best performance because it takes some or all of the load off of the processor as well.I hope this helps you.
video memmory??
by saisonm - 4/14/08 12:10 PM In reply to: PC video memory confusion: Dedicated, shared, discrete, oh my! by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
Dude when u go to buy a comp we usally go 4 the best. If u want the best deal about computers u can go to a retailer and ask him what is best for you not just depend on the video memory. Before even i was confused like u but now talkeing desions abt computer is the easiest work for me. i bought a Acer 4920G for INR 35,000.00. I got 1 GB grtafic card 2 gb ram, core 2 deo, 1.66 GHz L2MB cache 160 GB HHD, DVD-writer, 14.1 inch screen. I'm very happy now. Take CARE
Talk about Confusion!!!
by samusgravity - 4/14/08 4:37 PM In reply to: PC video memory confusion: Dedicated, shared, discrete, oh my! by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
Hi Sheldon!
With all of the types of graphics memory, it is really easy to get confused!
Here are the differences between the types of memory.
1. Shared Memory: This usually means that the graphics card is integrated into your motherboard. Whenever you are using your PC, memory is drawn away from your RAM, and used for the graphics card. This type of graphics card is good for VERY casual gaming (think of the first Halo: Combat Evolved, which came out in 2003), DVD watching, and photo viewing. But beware, if you buy a PC with an integrated graphics card, make sure that the PC comes with 2GB of RAM or more. Since the graphics card shares memory with the RAM, your PC will lose RAM for itself, causing it to slow down.
2.Dedicated(also known as discrete): This means that the graphics card is installed into a slot in the motherboard. The card has its own memory installed (anywhere from 128MB-1GB), and can do much more graphics intensive operations, without slowing down your PC (Judging that you have enough RAM for the application that you are using)!!! This type of graphics card can be used for: Casual-Intense gaming(again, depending on your RAM and graphics card memory), advanced photo editing, and watching DVDs (as well as HD-DVDs or BLU-RAY, if your system has it). There are really no drawbacks to this type of card... But cheaper PCs normally don't have dedicated graphics cards, so you might have to spend a bit more on a PC (around $1000).
3. Graphics memory: For what you said you would be using your PC for, I would recommend a PC with a DEDICATED graphics card that has 512MB. It has enough to run all of your applications smoothly with no problems. For the brand, I would recommend Nvidia. They are reliable, and their graphics cards work excellent!!!
Well, Good luck with your PC shopping!
EnergySamus
P.S. Hint: Most HP and Dell computers have dedicated graphics cards installed!
Hmmm.....
by linadragon - 4/15/08 12:04 PM In reply to: Talk about Confusion!!! by samusgravityQuite a few do but at the same time quite a few dont In reference to dell and HP....... It varies... But if you talk to them you can usually order one from them (its ill advised to go into a store and grab a desktop (with laptops its ok at times varying but not a desktop..))
Thats one thing you need to be careful with with alot of places like Dell etc... Check the system out throughly and customize it on their site or over the phone with what your able to... If it says shared memory or says integrated graphics accelerator dont go for it.
Something not that heavily noted here.... Is if you do get one of these integrated chipsets is that any work the dedicated GPU (graphics processing unit) would normally do is pushed off onto the CPU/Processor and memory. This can cause slow downs etc...
Video Memory Clarification
by Roxygirli44 - 4/15/08 2:30 PM In reply to: PC video memory confusion: Dedicated, shared, discrete, oh my! by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
First of all you are correct. Dedicated memory and the most memory is by far the best type of memory that you can have. What it does, is it allows the programs that are 'capapble' of allocating certain commands to multiple processors. Keep in mind if you purchase this type of computer, that not all software allows you to take the full advantage of this feature, especially with the number of processes people can put in these days. Therefore, someone who is doing 'extreme' gaming or lots of video editing will want at least a dual processor that can use the dedicated memory feature.
What I would say for you is shared memory is probably the best between that and discrete. I think that if you get into more photo editing as you continue to enjoy that aspect of your computer, I think that your shared memory will work nicely. Because sometimes photo-editing can bog down the system, shared memory will help with the simultaneous running of other programs. Thus, you will be able to check your email with relative ease without having too many problems while your photoeditor applies an edit to a photo.
Shared Memory alternative
by stanmorganVideo - 4/16/08 12:05 PM In reply to: Video Memory Clarification by Roxygirli44Hi Sheldon
This advice sounds good for new computer systems. However, as you add more programs to your "personal computer" shared memory slows down to a crawl given operating systems requirements, programs installed and using memory, with competition from graphics, sound, and temporary storage on your disk drive. The latter would slow down your computer to a crawl! Furthermore, you would have no upgrade capability unless you add a PCIe or AGP card, with available slots. Notebook computers with hybrid memory claim you have 768MB of memory, but the processor grabs this memory before you have it available for video intensive processing. In conclusion a desktop computer with capability to upgrade with GPU cards is preferable, and notebooks with hybrid memory would slow down eventually.
Few selected answers to get your started
by Lee Koo (ADMIN) - 4/18/08 4:05 PM
In reply to: PC video memory confusion: Dedicated, shared, discrete, oh my! by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
Here are the selected submissions grouped in one post. Read through them and place your votes in the newsletter poll.
Answer:
Overview - Video memory
Shared Video Memory: Using part of main memory (RAM) for the display circuit's frame buffers, which temporarily hold the rendered content being sent to the screen. Shared memory is used in PCs that have the display circuit built into the motherboard rather than housed on a separate, more costly display adapter card.
Sharing main memory with the display function reduces the amount of memory available to applications, and main memory is not as fast as the specialized video memory on stand-alone cards.
On lower end systems, the video is integrated into the motherboard. The video controller uses a certain amount of 'shared RAM' for video memory. The shared ram is taken away from main system RAM. Thus, on a 512 Mb system, if the integrated controller uses '128 Mb shared video RAM', the main system only uses 384 Mb of RAM, and this is the number you'll see when checking for the memory.
When you go out to purchase a computer, some models specify that they have a certain amount of megabytes of memory, and they may have a video card that supports a certain amount of shared memory. This means that when the video card is in use, especially in higher display modes, it will take some of the memory normally dedicated to other computing activities and use it as its own. Thus, if you buy a computer with 512 Mb of memory and 128 Mb of shared memory and you frequently use a high display settings, you may actually only have 384 Mb of physical memory available left to your computer. In some advance systems, the use of Shared video memory can be changed dynamically while the system is running, that is, at one time it may be using only 64 Mb of memory out of 128 Mb shared and dynamically change it as the demand increases or decreases. While this may be fine for some people, if you have more money, you may want to go with a computer that has video memory dedicated to the video card, saving your physical memory for other uses. A computer with 512 Mb that uses 128 Mb of shared video memory will have a gorgeous display but run poorly because Windows Vista only has 384 Mb to use (minimum recommended memory for vista is 512 Mb and 128 Mb of Video memory).
Dedicated memory means that the video card uses its own memory, and doesn't share or take up the memory from your RAM. Other than that the dedicated video card would be good for graphic intense application (CAD) and video editing, games and will also help in running windows vista ( with Aero - the new Vista user interface) smoothly.
The Advantage of a video chip with shared memory is that it is cheaper, it won't be horrible, but it won't play games (lack of RAM, and I wouldn't suggest it, this excludes flash games), and video editing won't be great (but that may not apply to ripping).
I would never buy a machine with shared video memory because 20% performance loss is not worth the small price savings realized.
As far you’re requirement goes you don’t require a high level graphics card, as you said, you’ll be doing some casual gaming I’ll suggest get a lower to mid-range video card. Make sure you buy a card that matches your expansion slot type. 256MB of dedicated memory should be enough for you. You can find cards ranging from 128MB to 2GB of memory, depending on how much you want to spend. Nvidia GeForce 8400 GS/8500 GT or ATI Radeon HD 2600 Pro are my preference for a mid-range budget. Make sure the card has a HDMI, Display Port, or a DVI output. This would also help you future proof your system.
You should see my answer to Joan’s question from last week, it may help you too.
( http://forums.cnet.com/5208-10149_102-0.html?forumID=7&threadID=288637&messageID=2736738&tag=nl.e497#2736738 )
Hope this helps. Good luck with the purchase.
http://forums.cnet.com/5208-10149_102-0.html?forumID=7&threadID=291147&messageID=2750161#2750161
Submitted by: Ankit B.
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Answer:
Let's talk about video memory and video requirement ......
Sheldon: As part of this answer, see my answer to Joan’s question from last week!
http://forums.cnet.com/5208-10149_102-0.html?forumID=7&threadID=288637&messageID=2735071#2735071
Dedicated video memory (also called discreet video memory) is memory that is on the video card (or the equivalent circuitry on the motherboard), and that is separate and distinct (e.g. using different memory chips) from the system memory.
Shared memory is when a portion of the system memory is “stolen” from the system memory for use by the video chip as video memory. This memory is no longer available as system memory. So, for example [an extreme example], if you have 512 meg of system memory (e.g. one 512 meg memory module) and a video system with 128 meg of shared video memory, your available system memory would drop to 384 megabytes (which is below the 512MB minimum threshold for running Vista). Note that in modern systems, the use of Shared video memory can be changed dynamically while the system is running, so that at one moment it might only be using 32 megabytes, and a bit later, when you are doing something that demands more memory, it might dynamically increase to 128MB.
Share memory is definitely inferior to dedicated system memory, other things being equal. But, that said, modern systems have gotten so good that shared memory chipset video is “good enough” for MOST (not all) users. Also note that many modern video systems use a combination of some dedicated memory and also have the ability to use shared memory to further increase video memory only when needed.
Another comment, note that in today’s world, the absolute MINIMUM video system that you should consider is one that has (or can have, given that shared memory can be dynamic) AT LEAST 128 Megabytes of video memory. Note that this might be a combination of some dedicated video memory plus some shared video memory.
If you are going to be running Vista, keep in mind that Aero (the new Vista user interface) has a MINIMUM video memory requirement of 128MB, and that Vista itself has a minimum SYSTEM memory requirement of 512MB (although it’s crazy to run Vista with less than one gigabyte, and bumping up to two gigabytes is almost always a wise thing to do).
Your requirements don’t really suggest the need for a high-end video solution (again, see my comments to Joan in last week’s question), although I might want to investigate exactly what games you do play and it might change my response ... all that I have to go by for now is “casual gaming” and “nothing hard core”. All of the other stuff you mentioned is actually 2-D video, so any video solution will suffice, and because of Vista and the Aero interface, all of the video systems being offered in new computers are powerful enough to meet the needs of pretty much any casual user who is not doing serious 3D gaming or using CAD or simulation software.
[Summary of what I told Joan last week: 3D video is when the video card CREATES the image to be displayed, as happens in games and CAD software. 2D video is where all of the pixels in the displayed image are simply supplied to the card. Both digital photography and digital video are 2D ... the JPEG or TIFF or MPEG or AVI or {whatever} file actually contains the pixels to be displayed, at most (for example in DVD MPEG playback) they only have to be decoded (which is trivial for today’s products), but they don’t have to be CREATED by the video card. In contrast, in games and CAD software, there is a mathematical model of some 3D world or objects (with textures and lighting), but the video card itself has to take that mathematical description and use it to actually create the pixels that you see on your monitor. This is complex and demanding, and it’s what really separates the “men from the boys”, if you will. But in fact, people have a lot of misconceptions about this and when it’s required. The fact is that, except for serious gaming and 3D software, very few applications use 3D video graphics, and in particular, digital photography and digital video don’t use them, generally (one notable exception being fancy screen transitions in digital video editing).]
Hope this helps,
Barry Watzman
http://forums.cnet.com/5208-10149_102-0.html?forumID=7&threadID=291147&messageID=2749711#2749711
Submitted by Watzman
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Answer:
Video Memory
Given you used the term discrete video memory, this refers to Dedicated graphics cards. This provides the most powerful class of Graphics Processor Units (GPUs) that interface with the motherboard by means of an expansion slot. Two types of slots are available PCI Express (PCIe) and Accelerated Graphics Port (AGP). Either card may be replaced or upgraded with relative ease. The earlier
motherboards used the Peripheral Component Interconnect (PCI) slots that are limited in bandwidth, and only used when PCIe or AGP slots are unavailable.
Integrated graphics solutions, or shared graphics solutions are graphics processors that utilize a portion of a computer's system RAM rather than dedicated graphics memory. Such solutions are less expensive to implement than dedicated graphics solutions, but at a trade-off of being less capable. As a GPU is extremely memory intensive, an integrated solution finds itself competing for the already slow system RAM with the CPU as it has no dedicated video memory.
A dedicated GPU is not necessarily removable given they may not interface with the motherboard in standard manner. Dedicated refers to the fact that the dedicated graphics cards have RAM dedicated to the card, not that most cards are removable.
In conclusion given you are interested in a later upgrade you should purchase a modern desktop computer with PCIe slot with capability to add a PCIe card with video memory of at least 512MB. This is required based upon the newest games even if casual. Older games run on 256MB. However, if you purchase the newest even casual games, they are demanding. Integrated video memory is like a rock-and-a hard place, given the processor demands more memory with increased processor requirements, thereby decreasing the video memory for games, photo editing, or watching videos online.
http://forums.cnet.com/5208-10149_102-0.html?forumID=7&threadID=291147&messageID=2750168#2750168
Submitted by stanmorganVideo
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Answer:
First off, there is no such thing as a "dumb" question.
What the memory term means.
When you have shared memory, the video "card" is integrated into the motherboard. It use the same memory as the rest of the system. The video memory used is SUBSTRACTED or removed from the main memory. This can be a big inconvenient. Another problem is that the memory bandwidth is shared between video processing and computing. You can set the amount of main RAM to be used for the video, but you need to change it from the BIOS settings. You find that kind of setup on cheap motherboards, usually with pretty limited memory expandability. It can be OK for you if all you do is surfing the internet, listen to music, do some accounting and text processing, and only do some casual gaming like solitaire and win mine. You may get some degradation with some video, especially for anything high definition.
Advantage: LOW price.
Inconvenient: Reduce available RAM, lowest end video processor, can't upgrade.
The motherboard's BIOS may NOT allow you to use a separate video card. NO PCIe nor AGP connector.
Dedicated is similar to the preceding. The motherboard contains a "video card" built-in, but functionally separated from the rest of the computing circuitry. The advantage is that isn’t not shared with the rest of the system and have it's own data bus. The video processing can no longer interfere with the computing.
OK with about any video playing. Video editing may cause problems. Most games will play with acceptable performances. Upper mid range games and above will probably show jerky animation in the most intense parts.
Middle price. The "card" can't become unseated.
If you want to install a video card, you may need to get a PCI card as those boards seldom have a dedicated video card connector.
With the preceding 2 options, if there is a video processor failure, you need to change the mother board or install a dedicated video card.
Discreet is video RAM that resides on a video card. That memory is completely separate from system RAM. The video processing is also independent from the computing. Some of those video cards can have 512 Mb or even 1 Gb of video RAM!
TOP performances are possible... for a price!
The price range from low (about $70) to outrageous ($1000 and more).
Most video cards come with at least 128 Mb of video RAM. You can still get some with less, but they may not allow you to use that LCD at native resolution, and the saving, if any, will be negligible.
In your case, I'd stay well away from the shared kind. Video cards are easy to change, integrated video can't be changed.
Considering that even some "tame" video games can be very graphics intensive, and that you may discover a taste for some more intense gaming, I'd go for the dedicated video card with 256 or 512 Mb of RAM.
Photo editing don't ask much from the video card, any will do. It's a CPU/main system RAM task.
The next step, video editing, ask for as much main RAM as possible and a fast hard drive, but very little for the video RAM, any lower mid range will do.
As for the rest of the computer, look to get as much main RAM as you can. Also, a second hard drive where you put your datas would be a very good idea. That way, when you'll need to reinstall windows, all your data will be safe without the need of backing it all up.
http://forums.cnet.com/5208-10149_102-0.html?forumID=7&threadID=291147&messageID=2750131#2750131
Submitted by Alain Martel1
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