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Community Newsletter: Q&A: PC video memory confusion: Dedicated, shared, discrete, oh my!
- 4/25/08 11:06 AM
Keeping it simple
by aldavid4 - 4/12/08 9:41 AM In reply to: PC video memory confusion: Dedicated, shared, discrete, oh my! by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
Stay away from the words integrated or shared if possible. I recommend a video card of at least 256mb or more. You want your video to work with your computer, not against it. Having a computer with a stand alone video card (It's own processor, hardward on the card) will help your computer operate much better. Thanks Allen
Video confusion
by Alain Martel1 - 4/12/08 9:53 AM In reply to: PC video memory confusion: Dedicated, shared, discrete, oh my! by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
First off, there is no such thing as a "dumb" question. 
What the memory term means.
When you have shared memory, the video "card" is integrated into the motherboard. It use the same memory as the rest of the system. The video memory used is SUBSTRACTED or removed from the main memory. This can be a big inconvenient. Another problem is that the memory bandwidth is shared between video processing and computing. You can set the amount of main RAM to be used for the video, but you need to change it from the BIOS settings. You find that kind of settup on cheap motherboards, usualy with prety limited memory expandability. It can be OK for you if all you do is surfing the internet, lisen to music, do some acounting and text processing, and only do some casual gaming like solitair and winmine. You may get some degradation with some video, especialy for anything high definition.
Advantage: LOW price.
Inconvenients: Reduce available RAM, lowest end video processor, can't upgrade.
The motherboard's BIOS may NOT allow you to use a separate video card. NO PCIe nor AGP connector.
Dedicated is similar to the preceding. The motherboard contains a "video card" builtin, but functionaly separated from the rest of the computing circuitry. The advantage is that is't not shared with the rest of the system and have it's own data bus. The video processing can no longer interfere with the computing.
OK with about any video playing. Video editing may cause problems. Most games will play with acceptable performances. Upper mid range games and above will probably show jerky animation in the most intence parts.
Middle price. The "card" can't become unseated.
If you want to install a video card, you may need to get a PCI card as those boards seldom have a dedicated video card connector.
With the preceding 2 options, if there is a video processor failure, you need to change the mother board or install a dedicated video card.
Discreet is video RAM that reside on a video card. That memory is completely separate from system RAM. The video processing is also independant from the computing. Some of those video cards can have 512 Mb or even 1 Gb of video RAM!
TOP performances are possible... for a price!
The price range from low (about $70) to outrageous ($1000 and more).
Most video cards come with at least 128 Mb of video RAM. You can still get some with less, but they may not allow you to use that LCD at native resolution, and the saving, if any, will be negligeable.
In your case, I'd stay well away from the shared kind. Video cards are easy to change, integrated video can't be changed.
Considering that even some "tame" video games can be very graphics intensive, and that you may discover a taste for some more intense gaming, I'd go for the dedicated video card with 256 or 512 Mb of RAM.
Photo editing don't ask much from the video card, any will do. It's a CPU/main system RAM task.
The next step, video editing, ask for as much main RAM as possible and a fast hard drive, but very little for the video RAM, any lower mid range will do.
As for the rest of the computer, look to get as much main RAM as you can. Also, a second hard drive where you put your datas would be a very good idea. That way, when you'll need to reinstall windows, all your data will be safe without the need of backing it all up.
suggestion to purchase new system for graphics or not
by ahsan0077 - 4/12/08 10:14 AM In reply to: PC video memory confusion: Dedicated, shared, discrete, oh my! by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
i think dual core with two gb ram will surely fulfill your graphic requirements.
SUNNY
Overview - Video memory
by Ankit B. - 4/12/08 10:57 AM In reply to: PC video memory confusion: Dedicated, shared, discrete, oh my! by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
Shared Video Memory: Using part of main memory (RAM) for the display circuit's frame buffers, which temporarily hold the rendered content being sent to the screen. Shared memory is used in PCs that have the display circuit built into the motherboard rather than housed on a separate, more costly display adapter card.
Sharing main memory with the display function reduces the amount of memory available to applications, and main memory is not as fast as the specialized video memory on stand-alone cards.
On lower end systems, the video is integrated into the motherboard. The video controller uses a certain amount of 'shared RAM' for video memory. The shared ram is taken away from main system RAM. Thus, on a 512 Mb system, if the integrated controller uses '128 Mb shared video RAM', the main system only uses 384 Mb of RAM, and this is the number you'll see when checking for the memory.
When you go out to purchase a computer, some models specify that they have a certain amount of megabytes of memory, and they may have a video card that supports a certain amount of shared memory. This means that when the video card is in use, especially in higher display modes, it will take some of the memory normally dedicated to other computing activities and use it as its own. Thus, if you buy a computer with 512 Mb of memory and 128 Mb of shared memory and you frequently use a high display settings, you may actually only have 384 Mb of physical memory available left to your computer. In some advance systems, the use of Shared video memory can be changed dynamically while the system is running, that is, at one time it may be using only 64 Mb of memory out of 128 Mb shared and dynamically change it as the demand increases or decreases. While this may be fine for some people, if you have more money, you may want to go with a computer that has video memory dedicated to the video card, saving your physical memory for other uses. A computer with 512 Mb that uses 128 Mb of shared video memory will have a gorgeous display but run poorly because Windows Vista only has 384 Mb to use (minimum recommended memory for vista is 512 Mb and 128 Mb of Video memory).
Dedicated memory means that the video card uses its own memory, and doesn't share or take up the memory from your RAM. Other than that the dedicated video card would be good for graphic intense application (CAD) and video editing, games and will also help in running windows vista ( with Aero - the new Vista user interface) smoothly.
The Advantage of a video chip with shared memory is that it is cheaper, it won't be horrible, but it won't play games (lack of RAM, and I wouldn't suggest it, this excludes flash games), and video editing won't be great (but that may not apply to ripping).
I would never buy a machine with shared video memory because 20% performance loss is not worth the small price savings realized.
As far you’re requirement goes you don’t require a high level graphics card, as you said, you’ll be doing some casual gaming I’ll suggest get a lower to mid-range video card. Make sure you buy a card that matches your expansion slot type. 256MB of dedicated memory should be enough for you. You can find cards ranging from 128MB to 2GB of memory, depending on how much you want to spend. Nvidia GeForce 8400 GS/8500 GT or ATI Radeon HD 2600 Pro are my preference for a mid-range budget. Make sure the card has a HDMI, Display Port, or a DVI output. This would also help you future proof your system.
You should see my answer to Joan’s question from last week, it may help you too.
( http://forums.cnet.com/5208-10149_102-0.html?forumID=7&threadID=288637&messageID=2736738&tag=nl.e497#2736738 )
Hope this helps. Good luck with the purchase.
About your article - something it needs
by spokes - 4/18/08 8:03 PM In reply to: Overview - Video memory by Ankit B.You need to break these things into catagories more, but even more important: You need to show us how we can determine what we have because until then, it all sounds like just so much geek talk that doesn't relate to me.
reply to about your article
by gether000 - 4/19/08 6:16 AM In reply to: About your article - something it needs by spokesThe answer was very clear even if you only know a little about compurters like i do
reply to: About your article - something it needs
by Ankit B. - 4/20/08 8:50 AM In reply to: About your article - something it needs by spokesI'll Keep that in mind..
I appreciate it.
Video Memory
by stanmorganVideo - 4/12/08 11:13 AM In reply to: PC video memory confusion: Dedicated, shared, discrete, oh my! by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
Given you used the term discrete video memory, this refers to Dedicated graphics cards. This provides the most powerful class of Graphics Processor Units (GPUs) that interface with the motherboard by means of an expansion slot. Two types of slots are available PCI Express (PCIe) and Accelerated Graphics Port (AGP). Either card may be replaced or upgraded with relative ease. The earlier
motherboards used the Peripheral Component Interconnect (PCI) slots that are limited in bandwidth, and only used when PCIe or AGP slots are unavailble.
Integrated graphics solutions, or shared graphics solutions are graphics processors that utilize a portion of a computer's system RAM rather than dedicated graphics memory. Such solutions are less expensive to implement than dedicated graphics solutions, but at a trade-off of being less capable. As a GPU is extremely memory intensive, an integrated solution finds itself competing for the already slow system RAM with the CPU as it has no dedicated video memory.
A dedicated GPU is not necessarily removable given they may not interface with the motherboard in standard manner. Dedicated refers to the fact that the dedicated graphics cards have RAM dedicated to the card, not that most cards are removable.
In conclusion given you are interested in a later upgrade you should purchase a modern desktop computer with PCIe slot with capability to add a PCIe card with video memory of at least 512MB. This is required based upon the newest games even if casual. Older games run on 256MB. However, if you purchase the newest even casual games, they are demanding. Integrated video memory is like a rock-and-a hard place, given the processor demands more memory with increased processor requirements, thereby decreasing the video memory for games, photo editing, or watching videos online.
AGP and SLI Video
by bduerr - 4/21/08 6:42 AM In reply to: Video Memory by stanmorganVideoActually, there is a complications in your answer.
1) AGP is pretty much dead in new computers. You can not hardly find an AGP card and no new ones are being created. The Nvidia 7600 was about the last on that platform.
That said, SLI created by Nvidia allows the use of multiple slots of PCI for additional video cards that improve the video horsepower. The cards are interconnected by a ribbon connector across the top of the cards. I believe that you can connect up to 3 cards.
Apparently the state of the art gaming machines have this type of setup and they use Crysis as a measure. With the 3 cards they actually bump up against game performance. For the rest of us, with 512 off-board video memory and overclocked processors, we need to stay at the 'medium' video settings . . . .
Few things...
by linadragon - 4/21/08 8:49 AM In reply to: AGP and SLI Video by bduerrThis is Pcie or Pci Express not just standard pci cards... And SLI is nvdia only. Crossfire is the ati branding of this. You can connect up to 3 cards if they are 9800 GTX , 8800 GTX , or 8800 Ultra, 2 Cards with 9800 GX2 (but thats 4 gpus)... But it is definately PCi-e and not pci that will lead to confusion... Pci is an old bus before AGP and is still used sometimes for soundcards and physx cards but ultimately is useless now adays...
Agp cards are pretty much dead a few are left but thats it....
Answer to ur question.
by RAZA1987 - 4/12/08 1:06 PM In reply to: PC video memory confusion: Dedicated, shared, discrete, oh my! by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
Hai freind! Ur question is good u need a pc for graphical applications rite? I m persomally a gamer so i m graphical user also. If u r looking for a budget and rocking pc i can recommend u a pc for less than 700 dollars.
RAM=Corsair XMS2 2GB=70 dollars(approx)(4GB if a gamer also=134 dollars)
C.P.U=Intel core 2 duo E6550=170 dollars(approx)
MOBO=ASUS P5K-VM Intel G33 Micro ATX Retail(8GB supported)=110 dollars(approx)
G.P.U=XFX 8800GT 512mb(256bit)=180dollars(approx)
Power Supply and casing=Cooler Master RC-690-KKA1-GP Black SECC/ABS ATX Mid Tower Computer case with Real power pro 550 watt power supply=150dollars(approx)
Total=70+170+110+180+150 dollars(approx)=680 dollars(approx).
I hope u like my review!
you forgot something that will add to the cost!!
by vb_lvr - 4/25/08 7:19 AM In reply to: Answer to ur question. by RAZA1987Missing the drives!!!!!!!
Get a 320 gb or larger @ 7200 rpm, much faster than a 5400 rpm drive.
And how about a CD/DVD dual layer burner with Light Scribe?
And with left over cash get a Blue Ray DVD drive!!
This will add at least $350 to your initial cost!
RE: Confusion Over Video Memory
by Spirit.Wolfe - 4/12/08 2:35 PM In reply to: PC video memory confusion: Dedicated, shared, discrete, oh my! by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
Sheldon:
My name is Spirit Wolfe here at the forum...I own a small specialty computer shop, here in Connecticut.
There are several things you need to look for first: When a label from the computer's manufacturer states that the memory is "SHARED" with your main RAM then it actually means that you have LESS MEMORY to work with when you are running other programs...let's say like Print Shop, NERO Burning, so on and so forth... Example- When you have 2GB of available memory in your computer and you have an INTERGRATED video card and it utilizes 128MB of SHARED memory it ACTUALLY means that that computer has only 1.92GB (2048MB [aka 2GB] MINUS 128MB = 1920MB)of WORKING memory NOT the FULL 2GB of memory you had installed or got installed in your computer.
Now, on an INTERGRATED video card motherboard, it means just that, it's "woven" into or onto that motherboard... Now just because a video card is intergrated onto the motherboard it DOES NOT mean it always SHARES the main "working" memory of that particular motherboard; it COULD have its own separate video memory intergrated onto the motherboard as well, MEANING it is SEPARATE from the 2GB of your main memory installed. SO...IF that is the case; the 2GB of memory installed on the motherboard is ALL used for running your Computer-based Programs.
Example - You've read that an NVIDIA video card is intergrated onto an ASUS motherboard and it specifies that it has 256MB of VIDEO MEMORY AND can handle up to 4GB of RAM, also. Then I know when the term "video memory" (those specific two words are used together in the description of the motherboard, then I know that the memory is NOT SHARED BETWEEN THE VIDEO CARD AND THE WORKING MEMORY OF THE MOTHERBOARD! Whew! Understand, so far? I hope so. 
I am NOT sure what "their definition" of the word 'discrete' is in a description of their motherboard, but, I myself have not come across that particular "term", for lack of a better word! But if I were to take an educated-guess of the way you are using it it means the same as SEPARATE. {^_^}
Now, a "DEDICATED video memory" means just that: a.) The video card MAY or MAY NOT be intergrated ("woven") into the motherboard --OR-- b.) The motherboard has a SEPARATE video slot; PCIx16-slot for the newer motherboards or an AGP-Slot (A)ccelerated (G)raphics (P)ort(4x/8X) for the older motherboards.
Older or newer style of video slots, on-the-hole, for the average end-user, doesn't really matter much, in my opinion. When simple BASIC computer use is involved; such as a computer used for: downloading and maintaining music files; wave, MP3, midi, E-Mail, Bill-paying, etc. Playing DVDs, VCDs, HD-DVDs, Blueray DVDs, Word Processing, surfing the internet, etc. Or, whatever software that DOES NOT require HEAVY use of Microsoft's Direct-X, Open (Source) GL, or other Three-dimensional (3-D) programs like Cadkey or Cadcam; which are architectural-based programs for designing a new building or a house, for example. Or, graphic-intense games, like: Tomb Raider-LEGEND, Warcraft, etc.
The MAIN difference today, right this minute, is that you want to go with a video card that takes a PCIx16-slot BECAUSE the video slot, AGP-8x CAPS OUT at a MAXIMUM card usage of 256-BIT (speed) at a total of 512MB of Video memory (space); there is not enough dedicated spaces within the AGP-style slot to have anymore memory added to the video card so that the GPUs [(G)raphical (P)rocessing (U)nit(s)] could utilize more memory correctly...
That is why with them switching BACK to the PCI slots and INCREASING their speed...you now can have multiple video cards, with multiple GPUs, and, as far as I know, UNLIMITED and DEDICATED video memory for the NEWer PCIx16 slot cards. You literally can "piggyback" two video cards and internally connect them with a cable that can utilize, I heard of, up to and, probably not limited to 16GB of video RAM!
Now, you are probably asking what about me, right about now? Yes???
{^_^}
Here are MY computer specs...keep in mind that my computer system is (4) four years old and I STILL can run ALL of HI-END video games, do multiple audio and video editing using, but not limited to, burning CDs/DVDs...etc.
Computer Case:
Generic FULL Tower (2) 3-1/2" Drive bays, (4) INTERNAL HD Bays and (4) EXTERNAL Bays.
Power Supply:
(I know I have bought a good one forgot model/make 
) 550-watts;
120mm fan on bottom of Power Supply and one side exhaust fan
(4) DEDICATED SUSTAINING constant 12volt supply lines...running (2) multi-speed 80mm 3watt fans; (1) PCI Slot side venting fan (right next to video card to keep it cooler and also help with air-flow. Along with (2) "FAN-ONLY" 12-volt plugs connected to an internal temperature probe (varies fan speed by temperature ...
Motherboard:
ASUS Intel P4 3.0GHz (3000MHz) Dual Core w/ 2GB 3200DDR 400MHz (128x1)RAM BIOS: American Megatrends v1006 Beta 002
Video Card: NVIDIA 7600GS AGP8x slot: 256-BIT, 512MB DDR Video RAM
Sound Card:
Creative Sound Labs' Fatal1ty X-Fi 64MB on-board RAM EAX Unified Platinum 7.1 Surround Sound card with remote and front input 5-14" access panel
One 3-1/2" floppy drive and one internal 3-1/2" USB internal multi-card reader.
INTERNAL Hard Drives:
(2)40-pin Maxtor Drives 300GB and 250GB, respectively.
EXTERNAL Hard Drives:
(1) Western Digital 350GB USB/1394 drive; (1) Maxtor 200GB USB Drive (1) 3-1/2" External Hitachi Dell Notebook Hard drive 30GB
DVD Burners:
(3) one External USB Plextor 712A DVD Burner; (1) Internal Plextor 716A DVD Burner; and (1) TSSTcorp SH-S182M
You may or may not think this is a suitable computer for your needs.
But it is especially with my 22" flat panel HDMI Flat Screen ACER monitor!
If I were to buy a computer NEW, today all I'd have to do is replace THREE things: the MOTHERBOARD, the CPU and the MEMORY, that is it!
Excuse me, FOUR things...the video card if I chose to go with a PCIx16 slot motherboard, which I'd do (probably the one with TWO video slots for graphical up-grade-ability purposes)!
I know I threw in a little bit extra when it came to explaining your video card needs. But it is hard for me to explain one without the other. Sorry if it was long-winded but, I think, I did my best to explain it as non-technical as I can, which is hard for me to do most of the time. Please, I am new to these forums and N.I.C.E. criticism is appreciated, thank you...
[♠] Spirit Wolfe [♠]
video memory angst
by msditz - 4/12/08 5:50 PM In reply to: PC video memory confusion: Dedicated, shared, discrete, oh my! by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
Hi Sheldon
OK, you're looking for a general use, multi-tasking all round computer. That can be easy or hard depending on what your main uses will be.
Graphics memory:
Shared memory - this is onboard graphics on the mobo's chipset, usually very low end and it shares your actual installed RAM. So, if you get a computer with 1 gig of ram, subtract 128. You can check this by Rclicking on My Computer, then click Properties. It'll show your ram along with other basic specs.
Discrete - let's say you get a card that is 256MB "discrete" - that means 128MB is on the card and 128 is coming from your RAM depending on the need and load being put on the card.
Dedicated - separate card that uses it's own memory and doesn't take from your RAM
At least that's my understanding. You don't need a top of the line $300+++ GUI to keep your videos smooth, so don't let anyone try to fast talk you into overbuying. Being somewhat futureproof is a good thing, but no matter what you get in a couple months (tops) there's gonna be something bigger and better.
Go for dedicated
by k akers - 4/13/08 9:33 AM In reply to: PC video memory confusion: Dedicated, shared, discrete, oh my! by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
The answer is that a dedicated video card will almost always be faster than an integrated video card, simply because:
Dedicated cards have more dedicated parts for processing, rather than a "1 chip" solution.
Some integrated video cards borrow RAM from the main board, this steals from the overall system memory, resulting in less memory usable for application-processing.
With a dedicated card, you can upgrade to something faster, later.
As far as which video card will perform better: the answer is dependant upon the video card chipset, the type of video RAM used, the amount of RAM available to the video card, and the frequency of the video bus speed (also known as the "clock" speed).
There is a new class of GPUs that competes with integrated graphics in the low-end PC and notebook markets. The most common implementations of this are ATI's "HyperMemory" and NVIDIA's "TurboCache". Hybrid graphics cards are somewhat more expensive than integrated graphics, but much less expensive than dedicated graphics cards. These also share memory with the system memory, but have a smaller amount of memory on-board than discrete graphics cards do to make up for the high latency of the system RAM. Technologies within PCI Express can make this possible. While these solutions are sometimes advertised as having as much as 768MB of RAM, this refers to how much can be shared with the system memory.
So as per my experience a dedicated graphics card with 256 MB of memory would be more than sufficient as per ur applications are concerned.
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