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Community Newsletter: Q&A: PC video memory confusion: Dedicated, shared, discrete, oh my!
- 4/25/08 11:06 AM
Let's talk about video memory and video requirement ......
by Watzman - 4/18/08 3:58 PM In reply to: PC video memory confusion: Dedicated, shared, discrete, oh my! by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
Sheldon: As part of this answer, see my answer to Joan’s question from last week!
http://forums.cnet.com/5208-10149_102-0.html?forumID=7&threadID=288637&messageID=2735071#2735071
Dedicated video memory (also called discreet video memory) is memory that is on the video card (or the equivalent circuitry on the motherboard), and that is separate and distinct (e.g. using different memory chips) from the system memory.
Shared memory is when a portion of the system memory is “stolen” from the system memory for use by the video chip as video memory. This memory is no longer available as system memory. So, for example [an extreme example], if you have 512 meg of system memory (e.g. one 512 meg memory module) and a video system with 128 meg of shared video memory, your available system memory would drop to 384 megabytes (which is below the 512MB minimum threshold for running Vista). Note that in modern systems, the use of Shared video memory can be changed dynamically while the system is running, so that at one moment it might only be using 32 megabytes, and a bit later, when you are doing something that demands more memory, it might dynamically increase to 128MB.
Share memory is definitely inferior to dedicated system memory, other things being equal. But, that said, modern systems have gotten so good that shared memory chipset video is “good enough” for MOST (not all) users. Also note that many modern video systems use a combination of some dedicated memory and also have the ability to use shared memory to further increase video memory only when needed.
Another comment, note that in today’s world, the absolute MINIMUM video system that you should consider is one that has (or can have, given that shared memory can be dynamic) AT LEAST 128 Megabytes of video memory. Note that this might be a combination of some dedicated video memory plus some shared video memory.
If you are going to be running Vista, keep in mind that Aero (the new Vista user interface) has a MINIMUM video memory requirement of 128MB, and that Vista itself has a minimum SYSTEM memory requirement of 512MB (although it’s crazy to run Vista with less than one gigabyte, and bumping up to two gigabytes is almost always a wise thing to do).
Your requirements don’t really suggest the need for a high-end video solution (again, see my comments to Joan in last week’s question), although I might want to investigate exactly what games you do play and it might change my response ... all that I have to go by for now is “casual gaming” and “nothing hard core”. All of the other stuff you mentioned is actually 2-D video, so any video solution will suffice, and because of Vista and the Aero interface, all of the video systems being offered in new computers are powerful enough to meet the needs of pretty much any casual user who is not doing serious 3D gaming or using CAD or simulation software.
[Summary of what I told Joan last week: 3D video is when the video card CREATES the image to be displayed, as happens in games and CAD software. 2D video is where all of the pixels in the displayed image are simply supplied to the card. Both digital photography and digital video are 2D ... the JPEG or TIFF or MPEG or AVI or {whatever} file actually contains the pixels to be displayed, at most (for example in DVD MPEG playback) they only have to be decoded (which is trivial for today’s products), but they don’t have to be CREATED by the video card. In contrast, in games and CAD software, there is a mathematical model of some 3D world or objects (with textures and lighting), but the video card itself has to take that mathematical description and use it to actually create the pixels that you see on your monitor. This is complex and demanding, and it’s what really separates the “men from the boys”, if you will. But in fact, people have a lot of misconceptions about this and when it’s required. The fact is that, except for serious gaming and 3D software, very few applications use 3D video graphics, and in particular, digital photography and digital video don’t use them, generally (one notable exception being fancy screen transitions in digital video editing).]
Hope this helps,
Barry Watzman
Video memory
by JTHunter - 4/11/08 7:47 PM In reply to: PC video memory confusion: Dedicated, shared, discrete, oh my! by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
Hi Sheldon,
The "shared" memory means that the integrated video uses the same RAM memory that all your other applications use. This means that you have less memory to run programs, and, even if you don't do gaming or something equally memory intensive, the video will be slower. The RAM you use MIGHT be the newer & faster DDR3, but you still have to pass the info back & forth on the motherboard. A dedicated card USUALLY has faster running memory as well as a shorter distance to go to produce the images. Even a video card with only 128 MB RAM would be as good, if not better, than twice as much "shared" RAM.
With recent talk of memory prices on the rise, now would probably the best time to "future-proof" your system and get the dedicated card and fairly large amount of RAM. Make like a Boy Scout and "be prepared."
Video Confusion
by abigtat2 - 4/11/08 7:51 PM In reply to: PC video memory confusion: Dedicated, shared, discrete, oh my! by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
Sheldon, I have been in your shoes before, and admittedly confused by the options. Dedicated 128MB video memory would mean the PC has a graphics card with it own onboard memory and will not be sacrificing computer speed to handle light to medium graphics (2D pictures simple games and such). 128MB shared memory means that processing graphics information is using only system memory (shared memory between computing info and processing graphics), this is not what you would want if you are going to be messing with multimedia. In my opinion you would be well served by a PC with a decent 256MB - 512MB PCI express video card, it doesn't have to be top end if your not a hardcore gamer, or dealing with video editing.Hopefully this information will help you to purchase a PC that will meet your needs and give you a little breathing room. Also at minimum if using Windows XP at least 1GB of RAM, If Windows Vista at least 2GB. This is my first post so please be nice to me.
super box
by terrybrookman - 4/11/08 7:52 PM In reply to: PC video memory confusion: Dedicated, shared, discrete, oh my! by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
Go to www.tigerdirect.com and put together a box you will love for about $1600.00, monitor not included.Faster than anything Dell or Gateway has for the price.Asus mother,AMD Black, 8 gig of mem, duel video, Raptor HD, Blueray CD and windows 64.
Video Memory explained
by Nudist - 4/11/08 8:02 PM In reply to: PC video memory confusion: Dedicated, shared, discrete, oh my! by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
When shopping for a video card, it's easy to be confused with the memory specifications in either the card or the motherboard. Here is a guide, in a nutshell.
Shared memory - The video chipset on the motherboard uses some of the system RAM for the video memory. Since you will likely have 1Gb of RAM (2Gb is strongly recommended), you will hardly notice that your programs have slightly less than 1Gb of system ram. Performance wise, this can hurt, especially if you are into 3D games. This configuration is common on motherboards with integrated video cards. If your motherboard has the built-in video chips, you may likely be able to turn off the video feature and plug in a video card with...
Dedicated memory. This is the case when the video card has its own RAM memory on the card itself. Your system RAM on the motherboard is not used for video, and since the video card may read and write to its own memory, it doesn't effect the programs reading and writing to the system RAM.
Dedicated memory is better, but if all you plan to do is eMail and web browsing, you won't notice the difference. If you plan to use gaming or high-end graphic programs, then go for the video card with its own memory.
The grey area of graphics memory.
by 330Andy - 4/11/08 8:16 PM In reply to: PC video memory confusion: Dedicated, shared, discrete, oh my! by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
New computer, exciting!
Dedicated video memory is like what the name says. There is always that set ammount of memory for graphics seperate from the ram.
Shared video memory is shared with the system ram and there always is a certain cunk of ram devoted to graphics. (generally slower, but can work)
Discreet video memory is also shared with ram but the ammount is dynamic depending on what the graphic intensity is. (Slowest in past expirence)
Generally the graphics on less expensive are intigrated (built into the motherboard, which is the case with Shared and Discreet) Dedicated can either be on a card or integrated.
DVD playback, photo editing, and casual gaming are usually the best with a card that has dedicated video memory, and remember, it doesent have to be an expensive one.
1gb, 2gb, 3gb Oh My!!!!!!
by mhostottle - 4/11/08 10:13 PM In reply to: PC video memory confusion: Dedicated, shared, discrete, oh my! by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
Hi Sheldon: My name is Jeff, I write a monthly newsletter for a sportsman club, when it came time for me to upgrade I went with the Dual Core. This is possibly the best option available for people like you and I. I have 2gb in my laptop and 3gb on my desktop. Both of these are Dual core's and I have no complaints, they both run great I wouldn't change them for anything. I've had 11 (eleven) windows open at the same time, the first one was just as fast as the last one. My network responds very well to dual core's to, I have 4 computers on my network and the dual core's run great by the way they are the fastest.
Video Memory difference
by victor_thai - 4/11/08 10:15 PM In reply to: PC video memory confusion: Dedicated, shared, discrete, oh my! by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
Discrete=Separate video card=dedicated
Intergrated means the graphics card (GPU) cost less than $5 and is soldered onto the motherboard. Therefore these I-GPUs takes memory from your ram (shared) to help it fill the pixels on the screen.
There are two companies that make Discrete GPU right now, Nvidia and Ati. Depending on the size of your monitor a 256MB discrete video card such as the nvidia 8600 is decent for your needs right now. If you want to spend more money a 8800gtx ($400-$500 just for the GPU) is ample for heavy gaming. Some companies can customer build your pc so it can accept 2-3 video cards together. The more cards you have the more monitors you can support and the faster the game play gets. Each have 2 video output therefore you can display 2 monitors with one card. Also make sure your card is PCIe instead of the AGP to future proof.
BTW a GPU does not help in rendering home videos. A GPU sole purpose is to display the pictures and video on your monitor. Soon they will have rendering capabilities but for now it is the CPUs that does the rendering.
My email victor_thai"hotmail.com
that depends!
by later1210 - 4/11/08 10:31 PM In reply to: PC video memory confusion: Dedicated, shared, discrete, oh my! by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
You are so lucky that I have just verify the stew you are in!
I have just bought a notebook for nearly 3 months .And I deeply experienced the role of each part of the pc.
the video memory and the bandwidth both determine the capability of a graphic adapter.
the memory can determine how complicated games your ps can be capable of.
but the bandwidth can determine how fast you can surf the game.
so if you are not a game addiction on the big 3D games like crysis or NFS(need for speed) which will be a big challenge to your graphic adapter or even the whole pc,my suggestions is dubious that the 128M will fit you.
but if you want to play HDTV usually, you may considering on a 256 or more high ones.
the discrimination of the shared or discrete ones will also display when running the games.
so that all depends on your custom and need of the pc.
but there is one regulation that more software and movies are become the defiance of the random memory,video mamory and the cpu.
so be discreet on your discrete graphic adapter.
good luck!
In a nutshell
by CommandoSolo - 4/11/08 10:45 PM In reply to: PC video memory confusion: Dedicated, shared, discrete, oh my! by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
Discrete and Dedicated Video memory are the same thing. Dedicated and Discrete video memory is a separate amount of memory that is only for the video card to use. Shared Video Memory is where the memory used by the video card comes from the main system memory. What this means is that if you have shared video memory then the actual amount of system memory available to you is your shared video memory subtracted from your total memory. Now for what you say you're going to be doing shared video memory is fine if you have about 128MB, and any amount of dedicated memory in about that amount would be great for your system. That is as long as none of those videos you're watching are HD.
More is Better But also how matters.
by buddhak0n - 4/12/08 12:57 AM In reply to: PC video memory confusion: Dedicated, shared, discrete, oh my! by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
What you want is a separate dedicated video .. especially in a desktop (sometimes in laptops you're limited)
Also in desktops you can always buy the one thats' on the Board so to speak and buy a separate card..
The best cards out there if you are playing games in the normal pricing ranges are the Nvidia and ATI 256 cards. It really depends on the system because there are some systems like the Apple MacBook Pro's where I don't think they are seperate cards per se but they are still nice pieces of hardware.
All that 'shared' , dedicated and discreet is just a means of saying where the card is .. Shared and dedicated I would guess are on the circuit board(usually not the best) .. discreet you would hope it's seperate card..
The idea of a seperate card is it actually has it's own "processor" of sorts to process complex graphics thereby releasing the load your main processor incurs at any given moment ...
When they are "shared" the system is normally slower.
Hope this helps.. but don't forget you can buy the shared now .. and as you get into the other stuff at least on a PC desktop add the better card... But me personally I try to buy the best available without getting crazy.. so I'd go for 256 on seperate channel ( it can still be on the board) preferable ATI or Nvidia ..
Hope this helps.
Unlucky, bad guess!
by oli1149 - 4/19/08 4:24 AM In reply to: More is Better But also how matters. by buddhak0nI hope it's clear by now to everybody that a discrete video card means a video card that is separate from the motherboard. The discrete card contains a Graphics Processing Unit (GPU) and memory for its own use. For this reason the memory on the card is said to be 'dedicated' since it is for the exclusive use of the graphics card.
Discrete memory means the memory is separate and, indeed, it has to be on the graphics card, where else?
At some stage in the evolution of PCs discrete video didn't necessarily imply wholly dedicated graphics memory: the whole idea of AGP was to be able to use as much system memory as necessary to supplement the memory on the card. I believe AGP is dead for discrete video now (replaced by PCIe) but still alive for integrated video (where it makes sense, indeed).
It is also not inconceivable that integrated video could have dedicated memory on the card although I don't think this exists at the moment. It would have the benefit of not using the same buses and the same address space. The address space separation would allow 32-bit systems to access more of the 4GB of RAM. But I digress. (It would be good to have a couple of extra slots for graphics memory on the motherboard, though, wouldn't it?)
The memory depends on the video card.
by Sasuto Uchiha - 4/12/08 5:11 AM In reply to: PC video memory confusion: Dedicated, shared, discrete, oh my! by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
Hi, i see you're kinda stuck here. Well, lets start with dedicated memory. Normally, deicaded memory means that there's a video card in the pc with it's own memory that's not shared by the PC. It will run faster since it's not using the RAM in your PC. Shared memory, normally, means there is a integrated graphics in your pc. The graphics card is built into the mother board and shares the memory with your motherboard. Normally, integrated graphics are just for e-mailing and basic computing, not a lot of gaming either. Discrete memory is about the same as dedicated memory.
Now for a PC. I'd personally go with a computer with atleast 1GB of RAM, 2gb's would be nice. Possibly an AMD processor if possible, they have dual or tri cores out which will make your Pc faster. The best way to go is to get a graphics card if the PC doesn't come with one. There's many sites to get cards like www.newegg.com or at a local store. I hope this helps
Matthew
It's easier than it sounds
by 3rdalbum - 4/12/08 5:43 AM In reply to: PC video memory confusion: Dedicated, shared, discrete, oh my! by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
Hi Sheldon. Your question is not uncommon, but in the end there's a rather simple answer!
Graphics accelerators need some memory to store textures and calculations. They can either use memory from the main part of the system ("shared"), or they can actually have their own memory ("dedicated" or "discreet").
If they use shared memory, then they will immediately claim 128 megabytes of RAM before Windows even starts to boot up. No programs can access this RAM. Since the graphics accelerator has to go all the way to main memory every time it needs to load any data, these integrated graphics processors run quite slowly. And it means less main memory to run your programs in.
A graphics card with its own memory can perform faster, as graphics card memory is designed for graphics work, and it's faster to access as it's on the same card.
I have had a computer with "integrated" graphics, which used "shared" memory, and the performance was terrible even for casual gaming. You would be much better off getting a cheap graphics *card* put into the computer with its own dedicated memory. It will add $60 to the price, and you will have the option of upgrading to a better model in the future.
I don't think you have any need to go for more than 256 megabytes of graphics memory - if you want better performance, get a faster card. I have a feeling that some other contributors to this answer might feel differently on the issue of graphics memory vs clock speed, but I hope my answer has helped you.
Its very simple actually, once you know whats going on.
by CTJoyce - 4/12/08 9:20 AM In reply to: PC video memory confusion: Dedicated, shared, discrete, oh my! by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
Ah yes the old video memory game (scam). OEMs tend to use lables like 256MB Intagraded, or discreat to mask the fact that you are getting a very poor graphics card. Intagraded means just that. The video chip is embedded on the motherboard, and it steals 256MB of RAM from your total system RAM. So if you buy a system with 2GB of memory, you only can use 1.75GB of that because the last quarter is being used for the graphics. This is fine for the normal email machine, but not for what you want. Discreat memory usually refers to a RAM stealing graphics card. What this means is that the card usually has about 128MB of RAM on it (most likely a GeForce 8400GS) and then steals 128MB of the system RAM. This is slightly better, but again the fact that its caching your system RAM for graphics isn't great. The 128MB of dedicated RAM is the best. It means that the graphics card has 128MB of RAM on it, and doesn't steal any of the system RAM. These are the best of all the cards, and any decent graphics card is going to have this.
When your buying, try to look past how much memory the GPU has, because its such a small factor in a good GPU. Ask the sales person what card specifically does the machine have. What type of graphics expansion slot does the PC have? Having a machine with a PCI-Express expansion slot is what you want. This way if your intrests change, and you want to start doing some hardcore gaming (maybe) you have the ability to upgrade to a high end GPU (Graphics Processing Unit).
Cheers
Cameron
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